Genetic study The Picenes and the Genetic Landscape of Central Adriatic Italy in the Iron Age.

ihype02 said:
There is J2a in Italics too. J2a was not brought entirely from Middle East and Greece as I previously assumed.
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There is not a single J2a in that list. All of the Picene (Italic) samples that are J2 are under M12 which is J2b.
 
J Man said:
There is not a single J2a in that list. All of the Picene (Italic) samples that are J2 are under M12 which is J2b.
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It writes J2a there but I guess it must have a different/outdated title.
 

Giulia Recchia: Cross-cultural encounters and transformation: overlapping spheres of interactions in the 3rd millennium BC Central MediterraneanThe Transformation of Europe in the Third Millennium BC
 

Elisabetta Borgna and Giulio Simeoni: Maritime and Alpine impactful cultural components in the northern Adriatic at the dawn of the Early Bronze AgeThe Transformation of Europe in the Third Millennium BCInternational Conference on the Third Millennium BC archaeology in Europe
 
Pax Augusta said:
Alissa Mittnik, Claudio Cavazzuti et alii: Investigating the 4th-2nd millennium BCE transition in Italy



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The EBA and Bell Beaker samples of Northern Italy seem to meet roughly where IA Latins/Etruscans cluster in the modern Spaniard area of the PCA. This represents the earliest waves of steppe influence and perhaps is the actual ethnogenesis of the people who spread the proto apennine material culture that later went on to become the latins, samnites, umbrians, oenotrians and etruscans. They are more WHG drifted than populations like the IA Picenes, BA/IA illyrians and modern Northern Italians.

The modern spaniard-like and EEF-like samples from EBA Marche are of particular importance because they prove a significant displacement or admixture event in local ancestry. We have IA samples from the Picenes to compare and they instead cluster in the modern northern Italian zone of the PCA. This displacement necessarily had to occur between the middle and final bronze age, which of course encompasses the terramare migrations to po valley and the alps. I'd be highly surprised if we don't see the same displacement phenomenon in northern Italy as well, given the genetic profiles we've seen from the BA proto-illyrians and vatya/nagyrev cultures. This is all very good data with significant sample size, but the limitation is the age of these samples. Most of the answers to the big questions on Italian ethnography are going to be found in later finds than what was recovered for this study.

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the elisabetta borgna clip would clarify more of the north-east italians
 
thr guilia recchia clip, clarifies that lateness of Greeks into the adriatic sea
history does say that they did not enter earlier than 700BC.
with corinthians creating appolonia, durres and skroder in the 600bc times.

with aegean Paros island greeks killing off liburnian men in Hvar island circa 620BC......as the only major greek influence in the adriatic
 
Vitruvius said:
The EBA and Bell Beaker samples of Northern Italy seem to meet roughly where IA Latins/Etruscans cluster in the modern Spaniard area of the PCA. This represents the earliest waves of steppe influence and perhaps is the actual ethnogenesis of the people who spread the proto apennine material culture that later went on to become the latins, samnites, umbrians, oenotrians and etruscans. They are more WHG drifted than populations like the IA Picenes, BA/IA illyrians and modern Northern Italians.

The modern spaniard-like and EEF-like samples from EBA Marche are of particular importance because they prove a significant displacement or admixture event in local ancestry. We have IA samples from the Picenes to compare and they instead cluster in the modern northern Italian zone of the PCA. This displacement necessarily had to occur between the middle and final bronze age, which of course encompasses the terramare migrations to po valley and the alps. I'd be highly surprised if we don't see the same displacement phenomenon in northern Italy as well, given the genetic profiles we've seen from the BA proto-illyrians and vatya/nagyrev cultures. This is all very good data with significant sample size, but the limitation is the age of these samples. Most of the answers to the big questions on Italian ethnography are going to be found in later finds than what was recovered for this study.

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Adding to this, we see basically the same phenomenon with the Latin/Etruscans of C. Italy as we do with the Etruscans/Samnites of Campania. At the start of the iron age, Campanian Etruscans/Samnites seem to start partway between the modern Spaniard and modern Sardinian clutsters, intermediate to the two clusters we see in EBA Campania. This would imply degrees of admixture between the two and eventually homogenity/continuity which was retained into the iron age. In the case of specifically Pontecagnano, the former Etruscan colony begins to take on large sums of Greek influence and begin shifting drastically towards the S. Italian/Greek cluster by roughly 500BC.

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Vitruvius said:
Adding to this, we see basically the same phenomenon with the Latin/Etruscans of C. Italy as we do with the Etruscans/Samnites of Campania. At the start of the iron age, Campanian Etruscans/Samnites seem to start partway between the modern Spaniard and modern Sardinian clutsters, intermediate to the two clusters we see in EBA Campania. This would imply degrees of admixture between the two and eventually homogenity/continuity which was retained into the iron age. In the case of specifically Pontecagnano, the former Etruscan colony begins to take on large sums of Greek influence and begin shifting drastically towards the S. Italian/Greek cluster by roughly 500BC.
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The author of this chart argued that the Samnites were genetically equal to Latins and Etruscans (the Samnites spoke an Osco-Umbrian language), and that those genetically different were the Greeks, and that a contribution from the eastern Mediterranean (the Aegean is part of the eastern Mediterraneum anyway) radically changes the demography of Campania. If I remember correctly, according to archaeologists since about 400 B.C. there has been no more Etruscan civilization in Campania (which had been formed in the early Iron Age due to migrations of Etruscans from Latium to Campania and were never a majority in Campania). Clearly many centuries earlier than when it will occur in Etruria. But this study has not yet come out, and one wonders why after now 3 years. If it ever comes out, it cannot be ruled out that there will be changes in the setting of this study.
 
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