To burn or not to burn: LBA/EIA Balkan case

[mount123]

Nice troll attempt by this inferiority complex weirdo, haplogroup I was born in Europe 30,000+ years ago and wiped out the few C people which are related to Native Americans. I-M170 has nothing to do with CHG it is only WHG and responsible for blue eyes, CHG were J people, brown skin, black hair and eyes. ANE (farmers) were olive skinned with mostly black hair and dark eyes like you see in most southern european people today.

Huh, C-Y11591+ related to Native Americans? The hell are you talking about None of your pseudo-scientific non-academic rambling is to be taken seriously.

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

Nope, founder-effect didn't work like that.
I2 started to significantly expand by ~4000 BCE, it is totally unrelated with a paleolithic imaginary "war".
I2 real success comes from its participation to WSH-population expansions.
But pre-4000 BCE the diversification rates for C and I is consistent with their relative number ... none of them exihit a clear preferential expansion.



You model is even worst ... if I2 was tracking C-peoples to exterminate them (First, how to they know ? Good question), it means that C-survivance rate is even lower, and that the fraction of C-peoples in that past need to be way higher ...
It is not really consistent with sampled populations up to now.

This is just some fantasy story ...

There was a concentration of mostly i2 lineages in bronze age central Europe (Hungary/Slovakia) with up to 40% WHG autosomal. These people are the main reason for the i2 resurgence and then you have the Germanic i1 expansion later on from Scandinavia.

WHGs weren't tracking down C people but when they came across them they wiped them out (like what happened with native Americans). They didn't know or care what ydna they had, they just happened to cross paths with them. Reasons for doing it are many, take their resources or land, maybe the C people attacked first, language barrier, cultural differences, appearance difference etc.

 

[Hawk]

Gracilization is also the result of diet. If you put any haplogroup though millennia(s) stress of slave diet, you will breed them smaller. I am talking about the differnces on the ground today, not ice age primordial times.

Nevertheless, the Dzudzuana in Iberomaurusians was Basal-Eurasian related, sort of Pre Proto-Mediterranean component, it is dead obvious how Paleolithic Egyptians and Mesolithic Egyptians from where did they got the slight reduction, but it also meant more refined features and less archaic/primitive.

The only change spotted was mtDNA change from native M1 to mtDNA U.

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

Huh, C-Y11591+ related to Native Americans? The hell are you talking about None of your pseudo-scientific non-academic rambling is to be taken seriously.

I said related, it was basically Native American like people that branched into Europe, Australia etc originally from Asia.

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

Gracilization is also the result of diet. If you put any haplogroup though millennia(s) stress of slave diet, you will breed them smaller. I am talking about the differnces on the ground today, not ice age primordial times.



Haplogroup I once dominated in the Caucacus area, which is a very reliable refuge that protects the population from certain disasters. They didn't wipe out haplgroup C, haplogroup C was decimated by certain natural events and haplogroup I simply was able take advantage of the new reality and take over the depopulated lands. The J2s today will be the future version of I. History is repetive. Haplogroup C in turn was the forerunner of the R's, both expanded out the Altay refugee(events seperated by almost 24k years).

What are you on about Caucasus? Haplogroup I was born in Europe and was already in Czech Republic 30,000 years ago - https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...plotree_Variant&searchfor=I-M170&ybp=500000,0

Wtf J2s taking over Europe only if you're a beta male or a depressed woke weirdo. Europe is for Europeans, they already have their own land.

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

Says the 1 metër e 1 zhilet shkurtabiq immigrant from Berat in the UK (unless that's a VPN). Ty pidhat s'ta japin as faqen

In your dreams, go fix your inferiority complex before trying to insult someone else. If you don't like immigrant Albanians you dislike millions of us. Ca jan kto terma "Pidhat", mos fol ashtu per gocat se ke vet mam edhe moter. Fike muziken rap se esht per zezaket ose ik jeto ne afrik bashk me ata

Btw Berat guys are among the taller in Albania if that's what you care about haha. You're here insulting Albanian immigrants and Berat, you're clearly not even Albanian - tell us where you're from

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Nevertheless, the Dzudzuana in Iberomaurusians was Basal-Eurasian related, sort of Pre Proto-Mediterranean component, it is dead obvious how Paleolithic Egyptians and Mesolithic Egyptians from where did they got the slight reduction, but it also meant more refined features and less archaic/primitive.

The only change spotted was mtDNA change from native M1 to mtDNA U.

mtDNA matters too. Some haplgroup(male and female) pairing are more optimal than others. That's why I say it is not just a assigned letter.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

What are you on about Caucasus? Haplogroup I was born in Europe and was already in Czech Republic 30,000 years ago - https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...plotree_Variant&searchfor=I-M170&ybp=500000,0

Wtf J2s taking over Europe only if you're a beta male. Europe is for Europeans, they already have their own land.

IJ was one, there is no evidence of IJ splitting in Europe. Also I-M170 is not even estimated to be 30k year old.

Welcome to FamilyTreeDNA Discover

Discover more about your paternal ancestry and join in on the research!

discover.familytreedna.com

Haplogroup I could only have expanded out of Turkey or the Caucacus. The expansion should have happened around 24-25k years ago.

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

IJ was one, there is no evidence of IJ splitting in Europe. Also I-M170 is not even estimated to be 30k year old.

Welcome to FamilyTreeDNA Discover

Discover more about your paternal ancestry and join in on the research!

discover.familytreedna.com

Haplogroup I could only have expanded out of Turkey or the Caucacus. The expansion should have happened around 24-25k years ago.

The ancient DNA is literally there in the link I put up above, it was already in Czech republic 30,000 years ago. I-M170 was born in Europe, not caucasus not turkey -

Haplogroup I-M170 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Another early sample -
"The oldest I-M170 found is that of an individual known as Krems WA3 (lower Austria), dating from circa 33,000-24,000 BP. At the same site, two twin boys were also found, both were assigned to haplogroup I*."

It is IJ that would have been in the areas you mentioned -

Haplogroup IJ - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[mount123]

@TaktikatEMalet You literally post non stop random pseudoscientific garbage about height and phenotype that doesn't relate to the thread at all. Pse po vajton si qyqe? Vajzat nga afrika janë faktikisht shumë të forta sidomos ato nga Gana. Kshtuqe s'është problem për mu të vizitoj afrikën najherë në të ardhmen.

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

@TaktikatEMalet You literally post non stop random pseudoscientific garbage about height and phenotype that doesn't relate to the thread at all. Pse po vajton si qyqe? Vajzat nga afrika janë faktikisht shumë të forta sidomos ato nga Gana. Kshtuqe s'është problem për mu të vizitoj afrikën najherë në të ardhmen.

Go back 1 page and see who started the conversation about height, I was posting articles about Urnfield which was a cremation culture.

Ore vella ik jeto ne gana po deshe, vetem mos te kthehesh me afrikane ketu se eshte toke per shqiptaret dhe nuk kemi 34 million njeres si ata. Kush te tha qe jan te forte, kur te ikesh atje te lutem pyti ca lufta kan fitu ne historine e tyre

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

From your link:



All opinion is that y-I split from IJ, either in Turkey or the Caucaucus and entered Europe from there. Your aboriginal evolution from Europe itself, is an echo of Enver era autochthonous-retardism that rots the brains of many Albanians. Are you related to this fellow Beratas, Sazan (kok)Guri?
He preaches even more spectacular autochonous theories.

It is talking about IJ -
"the age of IJ and its subclades suggest that IJ probably entered Europe through the Balkans"

Haplogroup I was probably then born in Europe, probably Balkans or South East Europe because it split from J which wasn't present in Paleolithic Europe. Maybe it first split in Anatolia but does it really matter a few metres this way or that way when ultimately it expanded in Europe for the next 25,000+ years?

Sazan Guri is an interesting guy to listen to, not related to him but my grandad looked a bit like him

Here is another interesting theory from someone else -

 

[Hawk]

Some amazing gold work found belonging to Ancient Thracians.

Thracian Gold Treasure Discovered in Bulgaria (Pictures)​

Thracian Gold Treasure Discovered in Bulgaria (Pictures)

"Amazing findings"—elegant horse heads, tiny busts, a circus-like necklace—bear witness to the golden history of Thracian metalworking.

www.nationalgeographic.com

No wonder, LBA-EIA Ada Tepe, brotherly culture of Psenicevo are recorded as Europe's first gold mine.