Genetic study Until death do us part

[torzio]

@Vitruvius

I normally get admixture like this below
Veneto 75.8%, Austria 5%, Saarland 3.4%, Friuli 3.2%, Trentino 2.6%, Donau Schwaben 1%, Marche 0.8%

Donau Schwaben = Danube Swabians

and YHRD site .................gives me links to ancient sites in
BC times , Wels Austria and Gissa Dalmatia

 

[Vitruvius]

so I question the Cenomani G25 as beinng with Rhaetic, when their capital was in Eastern Lombardy , Brescia city

I don't think Pliny would lie to us about Verona's Raetic and Euganean association. He was a local of Como and would've been doing a lot less speculating on this topic than more distant Greek ethnographers. The material culture here if anything shows continuity with the preceding Este finds in Verona from the 10th cenutry BC including the horse burials.

What's more is that this particular sample does not cluster anywhere near IA Gauls. I posted the distances a few posts back if you look. They do however form a cline with IA Etruscans and latins. If this weren't the case and the sample showed a clear IA gallic like profile I'd agree with you, but I'm not seeing anything Transalpine here.

 

[Vitruvius]

@Vitruvius

I normally get admixture like this below
Veneto 75.8%, Austria 5%, Saarland 3.4%, Friuli 3.2%, Trentino 2.6%, Donau Schwaben 1%, Marche 0.8%

Donau Schwaben = Danube Swabians

and YHRD site .................gives me links to ancient sites in
BC times , Wels Austria and Gissa Dalmatia

What is your known background? Do all of your ancestors have deep roots in Veneto or only most of them?

 

[torzio]

What is your known background? Do all of your ancestors have deep roots in Veneto or only most of them?

yes, I have deep roots in Veneto ......................but my father did state, our line never saw the sea for many centuries, he meant , we always came via the alps

Paternal from 1450 in trentino .............but I do not know when they entered Veneto, I suspect circa 1600

My family tree paternal is 100% accurate and goes back to 1680 ........................then it drops to 80% until 1450

My Maternal, I can only go back to circa 1700 with 100% accuracy

I still have 1st cousins on both sides in the Veneto ...........that I still speak to ...................only 2 days ago I spoke to my 1st cousin Lucia and other cousin Beatrice

why do you ask ?

 

[torzio]

I don't think Pliny would lie to us about Verona's Raetic and Euganean association. He was a local of Como and would've been doing a lot less speculating on this topic than more distant Greek ethnographers. The material culture here if anything shows continuity with the preceding Este finds in Verona from the 10th cenutry BC including the horse burials.

What's more is that this particular sample does not cluster anywhere near IA Gauls. I posted the distances a few posts back if you look. They do however form a cline with IA Etruscans and latins. If this weren't the case and the sample showed a clear IA gallic like profile I'd agree with you, but I'm not seeing anything Transalpine here.


View attachment 15590

I agree that the rhaetic and euganei where near and around Verona.................they shared a trading town with the Venetic in a place called Cologna Veneta
I question how much influence did the cenomani have with Verona......I understand they where closeby


Does Livy say anything about them ................he was a local

 

[Vitruvius]

I agree that the rhaetic and euganei where near and around Verona.................they shared a trading town with the Venetic in a place called Cologna Veneta
I question how much influence did the cenomani have with Verona......I understand they where closeby


Does Livy say anything about them ................he was a local

In my opinion, the Cenomani and other transalpine will look like the CEU outliers that we see popping up in iron age Etruria. We will probably see them in small amounts at some point, but I don't think their influence was ever large. These types are clearly differentiated from the Verona sample and also that of other known Iron age Italics.

I'll have to check on Livy.

 

[Vitruvius]

yes, I have deep roots in Veneto ......................but my father did state, our line never saw the sea for many centuries, he meant , we always came via the alps

Paternal from 1450 in trentino .............but I do not know when they entered Veneto, I suspect circa 1600

My family tree paternal is 100% accurate and goes back to 1680 ........................then it drops to 80% until 1450

My Maternal, I can only go back to circa 1700 with 100% accuracy

I still have 1st cousins on both sides in the Veneto ...........that I still speak to ...................only 2 days ago I spoke to my 1st cousin Lucia and other cousin Beatrice

why do you ask ?

I ask simply because if you have rather deep roots from Veneto in your entire ancestral background then you should really be plotting with the rest of modern venetians who you are using as a source population. With roots of 100% certainty from Veneto all the way to 1700 on both sides it seems silly to me to define your own profile as only 75% modern Venetian. You're probably just picking up the natural variation that has existed in the region for some time. If you have no known german speaking ancestors going that far back, then it seems like a case of overfit to me.

 

[torzio]

Maybe .................but I have a paper trail on my family lines .............as stated above...............but I do have non-italian surnames in trentino..........so they spoke italian and had italian christian names , but surnames are Hintz, Steiner, Plazzer, Alispahic and Eccher in the tree...........all are women as they married into the paternal line about 300 years ago

from what I recall admixture is taken by both sides of ones family tree

 

[Vallicanus]

Yep. That's characteristic of what I would expect from a North Tuscan. You fit similar to Ligurians with a clear majority of North Italic IA ancestry.

I am at a distance of 0.03441962 from Raetic_Verona and 0.07756630 from Rome_Imperial.

 

[Stefano]

Problem solved! My antivirus mistakenly removed an .exe in the WGSExtract program, making the error message appear. Over the next weeks i will slowly convert more files.
Here is another one, with higher coverage.

3217n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3217,0.12462,0.135,0.04808,0.020314,0.046234,0.009448,0.00341,0.005566,0.010927,0.014739,-0.003288,0.002175,-0.009305,0.007834,0.000204,0.003298,0.004598,0.000308,0.004512,0.002527,0.002543,-0.006572,0.000572,-0.00035,0.002245

TUR_Barcin_N: 48.38 %
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara: 37.50 %
WHG: 13.52 %
Han: 0.60 %

Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02251143 SVK_IA_Vekerzug
0.02329088 HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
0.02332543 HUN_IA_La_Tene
0.02407875 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
0.02612487 HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza
0.02632440 ITA_Rome_Renaissance
0.02646192 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros
0.02704047 SVK_LIA_La_Tene
0.02711580 CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02886671 SRB_BA_Maros
0.02945381 HUN_LBA
0.02977671 CZE_IA_La_Tene_low_res
0.02980453 HUN_MA_Szolad
0.02990001 Scythian_HUN
0.03020432 DEU_Lech_EBA_contam
0.03090333 CZE_LBA_Knoviz
0.03131209 CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.03153138 CZE_MBA_Tumulus
0.03153908 AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.03193941 HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA
0.03198100 HUN_EIA_Hallstatt
0.03250646 ITA_Collegno_MA
0.03279358 ITA_Etruscan_Vetulonia_CEU_o
0.03311274 ITA_Etruscan_Campiglia_CEU_o
0.03443364 HUN_IA_La_Tene_possible



Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02435582 French_Alsace
0.02731995 Austrian
0.02760215 Swiss_German
0.02789802 French_Nord
0.02955400 French_Auvergne
0.03017291 BelgianC
0.03019621 French_Occitanie
0.03167950 BelgianB
0.03185122 Swiss_French
0.03189019 French_Paris
0.03199863 German_Erlangen
0.03210706 Italian_Northeast
0.03234809 Montenegrin
0.03285703 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03440708 German
0.03464071 French_Provence
0.03494773 BelgianA
0.03505965 Croatian
0.03554401 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03556823 Romanian
0.03559967 Slovenian
0.03610214 Serbian
0.03622286 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03645201 Hungarian
0.03699711 Bosnian


Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02540033 Alpine_Celts
0.02596216 Boii
0.02862560 Cisalpine_Gauls
0.02882157 Celts
0.03552938 Belgae
0.03752349 Iazyges
0.04334796 Iapodes
0.04397368 Transalpine_Gauls
0.04847124 England_Celts
0.05339472 Baiuvari
0.05364192 Pannonii
0.05439139 Etruscans
0.05778635 Alemanni
0.05827046 Vascones
0.06161154 Saxons
0.06492301 Picts
0.06806043 Gothones
0.06931791 Longobards
0.07036860 Illyrians
0.07082284 Scandza
0.09446140 Romans
0.09771986 Slavs
0.12075972 Magna_Graecia
0.13054180 Roman_Greeks
0.13104673 Balti

 

[Vallicanus]

Problem solved! My antivirus mistakenly removed an .exe in the WGSExtract program, making the error message appear. Over the next weeks i will slowly convert more files.
Here is another one, with higher coverage.

3217n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3217,0.12462,0.135,0.04808,0.020314,0.046234,0.009448,0.00341,0.005566,0.010927,0.014739,-0.003288,0.002175,-0.009305,0.007834,0.000204,0.003298,0.004598,0.000308,0.004512,0.002527,0.002543,-0.006572,0.000572,-0.00035,0.002245

TUR_Barcin_N: 48.38 %
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara: 37.50 %
WHG: 13.52 %
Han: 0.60 %

Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02251143 SVK_IA_Vekerzug
0.02329088 HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
0.02332543 HUN_IA_La_Tene
0.02407875 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
0.02612487 HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza
0.02632440 ITA_Rome_Renaissance
0.02646192 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros
0.02704047 SVK_LIA_La_Tene
0.02711580 CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02886671 SRB_BA_Maros
0.02945381 HUN_LBA
0.02977671 CZE_IA_La_Tene_low_res
0.02980453 HUN_MA_Szolad
0.02990001 Scythian_HUN
0.03020432 DEU_Lech_EBA_contam
0.03090333 CZE_LBA_Knoviz
0.03131209 CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.03153138 CZE_MBA_Tumulus
0.03153908 AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.03193941 HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA
0.03198100 HUN_EIA_Hallstatt
0.03250646 ITA_Collegno_MA
0.03279358 ITA_Etruscan_Vetulonia_CEU_o
0.03311274 ITA_Etruscan_Campiglia_CEU_o
0.03443364 HUN_IA_La_Tene_possible



Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02435582 French_Alsace
0.02731995 Austrian
0.02760215 Swiss_German
0.02789802 French_Nord
0.02955400 French_Auvergne
0.03017291 BelgianC
0.03019621 French_Occitanie
0.03167950 BelgianB
0.03185122 Swiss_French
0.03189019 French_Paris
0.03199863 German_Erlangen
0.03210706 Italian_Northeast
0.03234809 Montenegrin
0.03285703 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03440708 German
0.03464071 French_Provence
0.03494773 BelgianA
0.03505965 Croatian
0.03554401 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03556823 Romanian
0.03559967 Slovenian
0.03610214 Serbian
0.03622286 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03645201 Hungarian
0.03699711 Bosnian


Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02540033 Alpine_Celts
0.02596216 Boii
0.02862560 Cisalpine_Gauls
0.02882157 Celts
0.03552938 Belgae
0.03752349 Iazyges
0.04334796 Iapodes
0.04397368 Transalpine_Gauls
0.04847124 England_Celts
0.05339472 Baiuvari
0.05364192 Pannonii
0.05439139 Etruscans
0.05778635 Alemanni
0.05827046 Vascones
0.06161154 Saxons
0.06492301 Picts
0.06806043 Gothones
0.06931791 Longobards
0.07036860 Illyrians
0.07082284 Scandza
0.09446140 Romans
0.09771986 Slavs
0.12075972 Magna_Graecia
0.13054180 Roman_Greeks
0.13104673 Balti

My distance to this Cisalpine Gaul sample 3217 is 0.05665382.

 

[Vitruvius]

Problem solved! My antivirus mistakenly removed an .exe in the WGSExtract program, making the error message appear. Over the next weeks i will slowly convert more files.
Here is another one, with higher coverage.

3217n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3217,0.12462,0.135,0.04808,0.020314,0.046234,0.009448,0.00341,0.005566,0.010927,0.014739,-0.003288,0.002175,-0.009305,0.007834,0.000204,0.003298,0.004598,0.000308,0.004512,0.002527,0.002543,-0.006572,0.000572,-0.00035,0.002245

TUR_Barcin_N: 48.38 %
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara: 37.50 %
WHG: 13.52 %
Han: 0.60 %

Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02251143 SVK_IA_Vekerzug
0.02329088 HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
0.02332543 HUN_IA_La_Tene
0.02407875 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
0.02612487 HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza
0.02632440 ITA_Rome_Renaissance
0.02646192 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros
0.02704047 SVK_LIA_La_Tene
0.02711580 CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02886671 SRB_BA_Maros
0.02945381 HUN_LBA
0.02977671 CZE_IA_La_Tene_low_res
0.02980453 HUN_MA_Szolad
0.02990001 Scythian_HUN
0.03020432 DEU_Lech_EBA_contam
0.03090333 CZE_LBA_Knoviz
0.03131209 CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.03153138 CZE_MBA_Tumulus
0.03153908 AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.03193941 HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA
0.03198100 HUN_EIA_Hallstatt
0.03250646 ITA_Collegno_MA
0.03279358 ITA_Etruscan_Vetulonia_CEU_o
0.03311274 ITA_Etruscan_Campiglia_CEU_o
0.03443364 HUN_IA_La_Tene_possible



Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02435582 French_Alsace
0.02731995 Austrian
0.02760215 Swiss_German
0.02789802 French_Nord
0.02955400 French_Auvergne
0.03017291 BelgianC
0.03019621 French_Occitanie
0.03167950 BelgianB
0.03185122 Swiss_French
0.03189019 French_Paris
0.03199863 German_Erlangen
0.03210706 Italian_Northeast
0.03234809 Montenegrin
0.03285703 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03440708 German
0.03464071 French_Provence
0.03494773 BelgianA
0.03505965 Croatian
0.03554401 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03556823 Romanian
0.03559967 Slovenian
0.03610214 Serbian
0.03622286 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03645201 Hungarian
0.03699711 Bosnian


Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02540033 Alpine_Celts
0.02596216 Boii
0.02862560 Cisalpine_Gauls
0.02882157 Celts
0.03552938 Belgae
0.03752349 Iazyges
0.04334796 Iapodes
0.04397368 Transalpine_Gauls
0.04847124 England_Celts
0.05339472 Baiuvari
0.05364192 Pannonii
0.05439139 Etruscans
0.05778635 Alemanni
0.05827046 Vascones
0.06161154 Saxons
0.06492301 Picts
0.06806043 Gothones
0.06931791 Longobards
0.07036860 Illyrians
0.07082284 Scandza
0.09446140 Romans
0.09771986 Slavs
0.12075972 Magna_Graecia
0.13054180 Roman_Greeks
0.13104673 Balti

Now this one looks much more plausibly Gallic. It clusters towards the southern end of Gauls, but still closer to Gauls than Italians.

 

[Robotnick]

Problem solved! My antivirus mistakenly removed an .exe in the WGSExtract program, making the error message appear. Over the next weeks i will slowly convert more files.
Here is another one, with higher coverage.

3217n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3217,0.12462,0.135,0.04808,0.020314,0.046234,0.009448,0.00341,0.005566,0.010927,0.014739,-0.003288,0.002175,-0.009305,0.007834,0.000204,0.003298,0.004598,0.000308,0.004512,0.002527,0.002543,-0.006572,0.000572,-0.00035,0.002245

TUR_Barcin_N: 48.38 %
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara: 37.50 %
WHG: 13.52 %
Han: 0.60 %

Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02251143 SVK_IA_Vekerzug
0.02329088 HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
0.02332543 HUN_IA_La_Tene
0.02407875 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL
0.02612487 HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza
0.02632440 ITA_Rome_Renaissance
0.02646192 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros
0.02704047 SVK_LIA_La_Tene
0.02711580 CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02886671 SRB_BA_Maros
0.02945381 HUN_LBA
0.02977671 CZE_IA_La_Tene_low_res
0.02980453 HUN_MA_Szolad
0.02990001 Scythian_HUN
0.03020432 DEU_Lech_EBA_contam
0.03090333 CZE_LBA_Knoviz
0.03131209 CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.03153138 CZE_MBA_Tumulus
0.03153908 AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.03193941 HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA
0.03198100 HUN_EIA_Hallstatt
0.03250646 ITA_Collegno_MA
0.03279358 ITA_Etruscan_Vetulonia_CEU_o
0.03311274 ITA_Etruscan_Campiglia_CEU_o
0.03443364 HUN_IA_La_Tene_possible



Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02435582 French_Alsace
0.02731995 Austrian
0.02760215 Swiss_German
0.02789802 French_Nord
0.02955400 French_Auvergne
0.03017291 BelgianC
0.03019621 French_Occitanie
0.03167950 BelgianB
0.03185122 Swiss_French
0.03189019 French_Paris
0.03199863 German_Erlangen
0.03210706 Italian_Northeast
0.03234809 Montenegrin
0.03285703 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03440708 German
0.03464071 French_Provence
0.03494773 BelgianA
0.03505965 Croatian
0.03554401 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03556823 Romanian
0.03559967 Slovenian
0.03610214 Serbian
0.03622286 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03645201 Hungarian
0.03699711 Bosnian


Distance to: CisalpineGaul3217
0.02540033 Alpine_Celts
0.02596216 Boii
0.02862560 Cisalpine_Gauls
0.02882157 Celts
0.03552938 Belgae
0.03752349 Iazyges
0.04334796 Iapodes
0.04397368 Transalpine_Gauls
0.04847124 England_Celts
0.05339472 Baiuvari
0.05364192 Pannonii
0.05439139 Etruscans
0.05778635 Alemanni
0.05827046 Vascones
0.06161154 Saxons
0.06492301 Picts
0.06806043 Gothones
0.06931791 Longobards
0.07036860 Illyrians
0.07082284 Scandza
0.09446140 Romans
0.09771986 Slavs
0.12075972 Magna_Graecia
0.13054180 Roman_Greeks
0.13104673 Balti

If you get around to it is SV3220 (US 3231) available with autosomal info/coordinates? If so could you run him?

 

[HereToLearn]

This individual is absolutely Raetic/Euganean. They are almost identical to the modern average of Trentino and do not resemble the Transalpine gauls found in France. They cluster with modern Northern Italics, IA/BA Northern adriatic populations and Modern Balearic islanders, some spanish populations and also most interestingly Vatya culture BA hungarians.

I understand modern northern Italians substantially overlapping with IA/BA northern Adriatic populations and Vatya BA Hungarians, as you maintain the latter is the source of most of modern northern Italians' genetic make-up, if I have correctly followed your theory.

However what is supposed to be the reason for northern Italians' overlap with some eastern Iberian populations? Random "recombination" (for lack of a better word)? I.e. substantially the same ancestral components, from different sources (in terms of ancient cultures) but randomly combined in similar amounts?

 

[Vallicanus]

I understand modern northern Italians substantially overlapping with IA/BA northern Adriatic populations and Vatya BA Hungarians, as you maintain the latter is the source of most of modern northern Italians' genetic make-up, if I have correctly followed your theory.

However what is supposed to be the reason for northern Italians' overlap with some eastern Iberian populations? Random "recombination" (for lack of a better word)? I.e. substantially the same ancestral components, from different sources (in terms of ancient cultures) but randomly combined in similar amounts?

I reckon it's more "random" recombination.
I'm convinced that Italy (of all regions) has more in common with various parts of the Balkans rather than the Iberian Peninsula.

 

[HereToLearn]

I reckon it's more "random" recombination.
I'm convinced that Italy (of all regions) has more in common with various parts of the Balkans rather than the Iberian Peninsula.

From a genetic standpoint, I gather that the Balkans peninsula have a wider spectrum of profiles, i.e. "southern/southern-central Italian-like", "central/central-northern Italian-like", Slavic, possibly even Germanic-like. To date I haven't seen "northern Italian-like" genetic profiles among modern Balkanic populations though (do please correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if these may be found f.e. in Istria and Dalmatia (although I bet there is a very strong Slavic component there, today). The Iberian peninsula on the other hand seems surprisingly homogeneous for such a big chunk of land.

Culturally, of course, it is a whole different story.

 

[Stefano]

Here are 3 other.

3220n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3220,0.121851,0.147397,0.036243,-0.005468,0.046082,-0.007655,-0.002514,-0.001085,0.022409,0.034359,-0.002603,0.006852,-0.012408,-0.006548,0.00096,0.00044,0.0002,0.000867,0.002222,-0.00329,-0.000971,0.000781,-0.001263,-0.001414,-0.001681

i simulated these two from K13, because when using the other tool they came out really noisy, one with no WHG and 3% east asian, however on k13 they appeared normal. It will be nice if someone run their raw data with k36 and makes another sim to compare.

3298n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

3206n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3298k13,0.132672,0.151932,0.057272,0.010298,0.048984,0.003025,-0.002816,0.004718,0.023170,0.029306,-0.003304,0.005860,-0.011525,-0.007824,0.006009,-0.001891,-0.001865,-0.001254,-0.002743,-0.000675,0.001554,-0.001518,-0.000598,-0.001270,0.000460
CisalpineGaul3206k13,0.130691,0.154574,0.056796,0.011439,0.049606,0.004264,-0.002919,0.002524,0.021473,0.029220,-0.004325,0.007630,-0.014948,-0.008556,0.006676,-0.002547,-0.000894,-0.001459,-0.003175,-0.002091,0.001109,-0.002174,-0.000474,-0.002486,0.000645

 

[Vitruvius]

I understand modern northern Italians substantially overlapping with IA/BA northern Adriatic populations and Vatya BA Hungarians, as you maintain the latter is the source of most of modern northern Italians' genetic make-up, if I have correctly followed your theory.

However what is supposed to be the reason for northern Italians' overlap with some eastern Iberian populations? Random "recombination" (for lack of a better word)? I.e. substantially the same ancestral components, from different sources (in terms of ancient cultures) but randomly combined in similar amounts?

Yes, that's correct. The basic idea I have proposed is that the Vatya culture migrants directly gave birth to the Terramare culture which demographically dwarfed the proceeding Polada culture in Po Valley. For this reason I'm anticipating that the bulk sum of IA and LBA N. Italics will look the same as or similar to Vatya.

Are you referring to modern Northern Italians or samples like this Raetic-like individual when we speak of iberian overlap? First of all it's important to note that the iberian genetic average has shifted since the iron age so this is a bit more of a modern phenomenon from what I've seen. I agree with vallicanus that this is probably just coincidental due to the natrual variation between Vatya and later northern Italics rather than a direct Iberia to Po valley migration scenario.

From a genetic standpoint, I gather that the Balkans peninsula have a wider spectrum of profiles, i.e. "southern/southern-central Italian-like", "central/central-northern Italian-like", Slavic, possibly even Germanic-like. To date I haven't seen "northern Italian-like" genetic profiles among modern Balkanic populations though (do please correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if these may be found f.e. in Istria and Dalmatia (although I bet there is a very strong Slavic component there, today). The Iberian peninsula on the other hand seems surprisingly homogeneous for such a big chunk of land.

Culturally, of course, it is a whole different story.

The ancient balkans had a large sum of modern northern Italian-like profiles, actually. Check the Iron age Paionians and the Bronze/iron age samples from Croatia and Slovenia. They all distinctly overlap Northern Italy. These types of profiles in the balkans were effectively eliminated by slavic admixture which arrived after the fall of the Roman empire. Northern Italy in the context of this theory is mostly or entirely a holdover from these regional types of population genetics in the carpathian basin/northern adriatic.

 

[Vitruvius]

Here are 3 other.

3220n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

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CisalpineGaul3220,0.121851,0.147397,0.036243,-0.005468,0.046082,-0.007655,-0.002514,-0.001085,0.022409,0.034359,-0.002603,0.006852,-0.012408,-0.006548,0.00096,0.00044,0.0002,0.000867,0.002222,-0.00329,-0.000971,0.000781,-0.001263,-0.001414,-0.001681

i simulated these two from K13, because when using the other tool they came out really noisy, one with no WHG and 3% east asian, however on k13 they appeared normal. It will be nice if someone run their raw data with k36 and makes another sim to compare.

3298n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

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3206n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

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CisalpineGaul3298k13,0.132672,0.151932,0.057272,0.010298,0.048984,0.003025,-0.002816,0.004718,0.023170,0.029306,-0.003304,0.005860,-0.011525,-0.007824,0.006009,-0.001891,-0.001865,-0.001254,-0.002743,-0.000675,0.001554,-0.001518,-0.000598,-0.001270,0.000460
CisalpineGaul3206k13,0.130691,0.154574,0.056796,0.011439,0.049606,0.004264,-0.002919,0.002524,0.021473,0.029220,-0.004325,0.007630,-0.014948,-0.008556,0.006676,-0.002547,-0.000894,-0.001459,-0.003175,-0.002091,0.001109,-0.002174,-0.000474,-0.002486,0.000645

The top one clusters most similarly with Balearic islanders and is still very close to Etruscan, modern Spanish and modern Northern Italian populations. It's also very close to the Raetic-like individual but a little bit more west shifted.

 

[Vallicanus]

Here are 3 other.

3220n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3220,0.121851,0.147397,0.036243,-0.005468,0.046082,-0.007655,-0.002514,-0.001085,0.022409,0.034359,-0.002603,0.006852,-0.012408,-0.006548,0.00096,0.00044,0.0002,0.000867,0.002222,-0.00329,-0.000971,0.000781,-0.001263,-0.001414,-0.001681

i simulated these two from K13, because when using the other tool they came out really noisy, one with no WHG and 3% east asian, however on k13 they appeared normal. It will be nice if someone run their raw data with k36 and makes another sim to compare.

3298n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

3206n.hg19_sorted_CombinedKit.txt

Shared with Jumpshare

jumpshare.com

CisalpineGaul3298k13,0.132672,0.151932,0.057272,0.010298,0.048984,0.003025,-0.002816,0.004718,0.023170,0.029306,-0.003304,0.005860,-0.011525,-0.007824,0.006009,-0.001891,-0.001865,-0.001254,-0.002743,-0.000675,0.001554,-0.001518,-0.000598,-0.001270,0.000460
CisalpineGaul3206k13,0.130691,0.154574,0.056796,0.011439,0.049606,0.004264,-0.002919,0.002524,0.021473,0.029220,-0.004325,0.007630,-0.014948,-0.008556,0.006676,-0.002547,-0.000894,-0.001459,-0.003175,-0.002091,0.001109,-0.002174,-0.000474,-0.002486,0.000645

I am @0.02979432 from sample I3220 but @~0.053 for the other two Cisalpine samples.

Are these from Verona or elsewhere?