Vikings raided for wealth and wives

[Angela]

Apropos to other discussions we've had...

See:

http://www.archaeology.org/news/4998-161107-viking-raids-wives

"ABERDEEN, SCOTLAND—The Telegraph reports that research by Mark Collard of the University of Aberdeen and Simon Fraser University, Ben Raffield of Simon Fraser University, and Neil Price of Uppsala University supports the idea that young Viking men may have been driven to raid other lands in the pursuit of wives, rather than as part of a battle against the spread of Christianity. They say that social inequality and the rise of polygamy in the Iron Age world meant that there were few women available as potential partners for young, poor men. They explain that by raiding, young men would have been able to accumulate wealth and power quickly, and thus improve their chances of gaining wives. The researchers cite recent research that suggests that Yanomamo tribes in South America practice intervillage raiding in pursuit of wives for polygamous marriages. They also say that the graves of members of Viking raiding parties belonged to young men rather than seasoned veterans."

This seems like a rather indirect way of proving their point, however. I would have liked more proof that there was a rise in polygamy in Iron Age Europe. Why not the Bronze Age? Or was it in both with a difference in between?

Also, given their actions and the fact that they were slave traders, I never thought the raids were for altruistic purposes. I always assumed it was for the booty.

 

[johen]

Apropos to other discussions we've had...

See:

http://www.archaeology.org/news/4998-161107-viking-raids-wives

"ABERDEEN, SCOTLAND—The Telegraph reports that research by Mark Collard of the University of Aberdeen and Simon Fraser University, Ben Raffield of Simon Fraser University, and Neil Price of Uppsala University supports the idea that young Viking men may have been driven to raid other lands in the pursuit of wives, rather than as part of a battle against the spread of Christianity. They say that social inequality and the rise of polygamy in the Iron Age world meant that there were few women available as potential partners for young, poor men. They explain that by raiding, young men would have been able to accumulate wealth and power quickly, and thus improve their chances of gaining wives. The researchers cite recent research that suggests that Yanomamo tribes in South America practice intervillage raiding in pursuit of wives for polygamous marriages. They also say that the graves of members of Viking raiding parties belonged to young men rather than seasoned veterans."

Is it connected to IndoEuropean Tradition?

David Anthony:

When it comes to understanding the origin of European culture, there’s another reason for looking at the Yamnaya. The very foundation of Rome may be steeped in their traditions. According to studies of IndoEuropean mythology, young Yamnaya men would go off in warlike groups, raping and pillaging for a few years, then return to their village and settle down into respectability as adults. Those cults were mythologically associated with wolves and dogs, like youths forming wild hunting packs, and the youths are said to have worn dog or wolf skins during their initiation. Anthony has found a site in Russia where the Yamnaya killed wolves and dogs in midwinter. He says it’s easy to imagine groups
sacrificing and consuming the animals as a way to symbolically become wolves or dogs themselves. Bodies in Yamnaya graves on the western steppes frequently have pendants of dog canine teeth around their necks. Anthony says that all this offers solid archaeological evidence for the youthful “wolf packs” of Indo-European legends – and sees a link to the myth of the foundation of Rome. “You’ve got two boys, Romulus and Remus
and a wolf that more or less gives birth to them,” he says. “And the earliest legends of the foundation of Rome are connected with a large group of homeless young men who were given shelter by Romulus. But they then wanted wives, so they invited in a neighbouring tribe and stole all their women. You can see that
whole set of early legends as being connected possibly with the foundation of Rome by youthful war bands.

 

[bicicleur 2]

the beginniong of the iron age saw a large increase in food production from farming, because of more iron tools, e.g. the ploughs got a metal tip now to cut the soil
hence a big population growth

in Scandinavia (+/- 600 BC) though it coincided with climate change, making it much more difficult to farm on the more northern lattitudes (upto the lattitude of southern Finland)

maybe to many people moved south, making southern Scandinavia a bit to crowded

that was before Viking age though, it was when peacefull Scandinavian farmers turned into Germanic warriors

 

[Rethel]

Apropos to other discussions we've had...

See:

http://www.archaeology.org/news/4998-161107-viking-raids-wives

"ABERDEEN, SCOTLAND—The Telegraph reports that research by Mark Collard of the University of Aberdeen and Simon Fraser University, Ben Raffield of Simon Fraser University, and Neil Price of Uppsala University supports the idea that young Viking men may have been driven to raid other lands in the pursuit of wives, rather than as part of a battle against the spread of Christianity. They say that social inequality and the rise of polygamy in the Iron Age world meant that there were few women available as potential partners for young, poor men. They explain that by raiding, young men would have been able to accumulate wealth and power quickly, and thus improve their chances of gaining wives. The researchers cite recent research that suggests that Yanomamo tribes in South America practice intervillage raiding in pursuit of wives for polygamous marriages. They also say that the graves of members of Viking raiding parties belonged to young men rather than seasoned veterans."

This seems like a rather indirect way of proving their point, however. I would have liked more proof that there was a rise in polygamy in Iron Age Europe. Why not the Bronze Age? Or was it in both with a difference in between?

Also, given their actions and the fact that they were slave traders, I never thought the raids were for altruistic purposes. I always assumed it was for the booty.

So, after reading this, do you still belive in autosomal ethnoracism?

 

[MarkoZ]

In general, global trends seem to indicate that high levels of social differentation were difficult to maintain outside of the developed urban civilizations before the Iron Age. Large-scale warfare would have been primitive, risky and way too costly with Bronze Age technology. Just look at the Bronze Age battle site in Northern Europe discovered a couple of years ago, where stone & wooden weapons were still very widespread. Roaming warbands would probably have been the exception rather than the rule.


There's also the fact that contrary to popular fantasies, Indo-European societies were specifically inclined towards monogamy, which indicates that there may have been special circumstances in place in Scandinavia. This (like Laura Fortunato's other papers) is an interesting publication regarding the reconstructed marriage patterns among Indo-European speakers: http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=humbiol

 

[Angela]

So, after reading this, do you still belive in autosomal ethnoracism?

Your posts are usually incomprehensible to me and this is no exception. I have no clue what you're talking about...

 

[bicicleur 2]

I don't think so, these young Vikings liked as much the glory of the actual act of plundering as they liked the acquired loot.

We are still the victims, but we live in dull times today.

 

[LeBrok]

So, after reading this, do you still belive in autosomal ethnoracism?

You have to finally realise that we don't sit in your head and don't know what your cryptic writing means. Speak clearly, build your case, communicate broadly with many sentences, don't be thrifty with "ink".

 

[LeBrok]

In general, global trends seem to indicate that high levels of social differentation were difficult to maintain outside of the developed urban civilizations before the Iron Age. Large-scale warfare would have been primitive, risky and way too costly with Bronze Age technology. Just look at the Bronze Age battle site in Northern Europe discovered a couple of years ago, where stone & wooden weapons were still very widespread. Roaming warbands would probably have been the exception rather than the rule.


There's also the fact that contrary to popular fantasies, Indo-European societies were specifically inclined towards monogamy, which indicates that there may have been special circumstances in place in Scandinavia. This (like Laura Fortunato's other papers) is an interesting publication regarding the reconstructed marriage patterns among Indo-European speakers: http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=humbiol

Good point. Raiding and stealing gold and of course women had built surplus of feminine beauty in Viking societies. This could have lead to polygamy, just to solve the problem of oversupply of women.

 

[Rethel]

You have to finally realise that we don't sit in your head and don't know what your cryptic writing means. Speak clearly, build your case, communicate broadly with many sentences, don't be thrifty with "ink".

When you will not be a selfcentric terrorist, then maybe.