What are the origins of I1-Z140 and I1-L338 in the British Isles?

would that be i1 as4(i got this off the facebook page)
 
i dont think it is celtic .............just my opioun
 
spruithean said:
Haha. I've seen other images similar to these on the Haplogroup I1 page on facebook and ancestry. Isn't it Terry Robb that has said that AAB(A,B) is Celtic when found in the Isles?

I've heard no one else speak of those haplotypes as "Celtic".
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Well, that's an excellent question. Now we are getting into the meta-myth of some of the first Irish settlers. I would recommend researching a group called the Fir Bolg-- do a google or bing image search and see if these characters might look familiar. Ring a bell? Could Fir Bolg be proto hg I, I1 or I2? I don't know, but it sure is fun to speculate!

But in my opinion, no I wouldn't call the first waves of hg I (either I1 or I2) that made it onto the Islands Celtic. Sure they now probably have a more "Celtic" autosomal make-up than an I1 member found in say Sweden or Finland... but in my world view hg R (really R1b) owns the true Celtic title.
 
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tjlowery87 said:
would that be i1 as4(i got this off the facebook page)
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I'm not sure. You would have to compare STRs to find your Terry Robb group. YSearch used to have some of the examples, but ysearch is down... permanently.

Terry Robb does have a branch finder on his website. My branch in his system seems common in the weirdest places.

nordicfoyer said:
Well, that's an excellent question. Now we are getting into the meta-myth of the early Irish settlers. I would recommend researching a group called the Fir Bolg-- do a google or bing image search and see if these characters might look familiar. Could Fir Bolg be hg I or I1? I don't know, but it sure is fun to speculate.

But in my opinion, no I wouldn't call the first waves of hg I (either I1 or I2) that made it onto the Isles Celtic. They probably have a more "Celtic" autosomal make-up than an I1 member found in say Sweden or Finland... but in my world view R1b owns the true Celtic title.
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Ah the meta-myth. We'll leave it to that for now.
 
spruithean said:
Ah the meta-myth. We'll leave it to that for now.
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Probably a wise choice.

But myths have been know to contain a nugget or two of truth-- they do get passed down for a reason. :)
 
nordicfoyer said:
Probably a wise choice.

But myths have been know to contain a nugget or two of truth-- they do get passed down for a reason. :)
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Not always... some myths are created for various purposes.

For example the Scots in the Declaration of Arbroath claimed they descended from an Egyptian princess "Scota". They made interesting claims to convince the Pope that they were a separate distinct people from the English.

But they are myths and should be left for another time...

Hopefully more information can be discovered for the I1-Z140s, I1-L338s and the other various groups.
 
Oh boy, you don't want to get me started on my strange theories linking the Scots and the Egyptians... one day I might start a thread on it. Or maybe a novel...
 
spruithean said:
Haha. I've seen other images similar to these on the Haplogroup I1 page on facebook and ancestry. Isn't it Terry Robb that has said that AAB(A,B) is Celtic when found in the Isles?

I've heard no one else speak of those haplotypes as "Celtic".
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i think i1as4 is celto germanic or somethying similar
 
tjlowery87 said:
i think i1as4 is celto germanic or somethying similar
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Do you mean I1-AS4?

I1-AS4 is DF29* meaning it is in the I1a* part of the tree.

Other types in the DF29* sphere are:
I1a*
AS1114
AS12
AS2122
ML22,10,12
Mav11
and P

are all DF29*. I'm not sure what the origin of that is but it predates Germanic culture by a long shot.

"I1a (S438) This lineage was able to repopulate Northern Europe in the early Mesolithic"
= S428 is the same as DF29

So could it be possible that it is of non-Germanic origin?
 
good point,in my own opinion if it didnt come with the germanics it came with the celts
 
i didnt think i1 was old enough to be in the mesolithic
 
tjlowery87 said:
i didnt think i1 was old enough to be in the mesolithic
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Due to recent SNP discoveries it is. Please see Ken Nortvedt's documents and take a look at Terry Robb's work.

Also take a look at the 2013 ISOGG Haplogroup I tree.
 
last emails i exchanged with both of them a couple weeks ago (3 to 4) terry rob said 5000bc
and nordvedt 4500yp in i1 origin
 
then again maybe an i1 male went south and banged some celtic chick and his kids went to the isles lol
 
nordicwarrior said:
Spruithean, regarding Z140 you should also consider Danish Vikings. It looks like Z140 had an important tie to Jutland/Denmark around 700 A.D.
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I concur.

My terminal haplotype (BigY test) has has been identified as I-A18477 on FTDNA and as I-A18483 on YFull.

I-Z140 \ I-Z141 \ I-Z2535 \ I-YSC0000261 AKA I-S1954\ I-L338 \ I-S12289 \ I-BY461 \ I-BY463 \ I-PH4462 \ I-A18477 (FTDNA)
I-Z140 \ I-Z141\ I-Z2535 \ I-YSC261 \I-L338 \ I-S12289 \ I-Y8333 \ I-Y8334 \ I-PH4462 \ I-A18483 (YFull)

My Y origins appear to be in the border area between Denmark and northern Germany. I base this on matches with living testers and "ancient" samples. I have a relatively close ancient match to skeleton of a man who lived between 894 - 1025 CE and was found in the region now known as Ribe, Jutland, Denmark. I have another to a 2-3 year old baby boy who lived between 450 - 650 CE and was found in the region now known as West Heslerton, Yorkshire, England-- as part of an early Anglo Saxon cemetery. I'm taking it on faith the origins of the Angles and Saxons is generally the same area between Denmark and northern Germany.
 
deanovermont said:
I concur.

My terminal haplotype (BigY test) has has been identified as I-A18477 on FTDNA and as I-A18483 on YFull.

I-Z140 \ I-Z141 \ I-Z2535 \ I-YSC0000261 AKA I-S1954\ I-L338 \ I-S12289 \ I-BY461 \ I-BY463 \ I-PH4462 \ I-A18477 (FTDNA)
I-Z140 \ I-Z141\ I-Z2535 \ I-YSC261 \I-L338 \ I-S12289 \ I-Y8333 \ I-Y8334 \ I-PH4462 \ I-A18483 (YFull)

My Y origins appear to be in the border area between Denmark and northern Germany. I base this on matches with living testers and "ancient" samples. I have a relatively close ancient match to skeleton of a man who lived between 894 - 1025 CE and was found in the region now known as Ribe, Jutland, Denmark. I have another to a 2-3 year old baby boy who lived between 450 - 650 CE and was found in the region now known as West Heslerton, Yorkshire, England-- as part of an early Anglo Saxon cemetery. I'm taking it on faith the origins of the Angles and Saxons is generally the same area between Denmark and northern Germany.
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Hello deanovermont,

Just so you know, most of the I1 guys are over on the GenArchivist forum: https://genarchivist.net/
So you are more likely to find news and conversations on anything I1 over there. As you can see, before your post, this thread has been fallow since 2013. So I would suggest moving moving over there and reposting the above on GenArchivist.
 
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