What is origin R1b-S8172?

[hapiness15]

What is origin R1b-S8172? I can't find any information about this haplo , Y-Tree look most shifted to north than italy , i don't know why

 

[Robotnick]

With a TMRCA of around 1650 bc, it's possible that it's spread may be associated with the Tumulus Culture and/or the Urnfield and Hallstatt Cultures. Contact and movements between the Rhine, Danube, Adriatic and elsewhere for trade purposes seems plausible.

Other branches of R1b-U152 and especially L2 (and especially Z49) that were born around this time seem to reflect something roughly similar in their distributions.

But anyway, it's hard to pin down exact origins for these branches because of these trade routes and movements. It's possible that some of these were involved with Venetic peoples in NE Italy, while others became part of Proto-Celtic culture. Venetics and later Venetians were seafarers and some could have migrated.
Until we have a good bit more ancient Dna we can only conjecture. There was an ancient sample which was downstream of one of its parent haplogroups. Broion 3 I think it was called, dated around 1500 bc in NE Italy.

 

[hapiness15]

With a TMRCA of around 1650 bc, it's possible that it's spread may be associated with the Tumulus Culture and/or the Urnfield and Hallstatt Cultures. Contact and movements between the Rhine, Danube, Adriatic and elsewhere for trade purposes seems plausible.

Other branches of R1b-U152 and especially L2 (and especially Z49) that were born around this time seem to reflect something roughly similar in their distributions.

But anyway, it's hard to pin down exact origins for these branches because of these trade routes and movements. It's possible that some of these were involved with Venetic peoples in NE Italy, while others became part of Proto-Celtic culture. Venetics and later Venetians were seafarers and some could have migrated.
Until we have a good bit more ancient Dna we can only conjecture. There was an ancient sample which was downstream of one of its parent haplogroups. Broion 3 I think it was called, dated around 1500 bc in NE Italy.

Here show that , is really strange most of people with this Y come from germany and england

 

[Robotnick]

Here show that , is really strange most of people with this Y come from germany and england

There is a relatively strong testing bias for Britain, especially in FTDNA but also genetic testing in general. Many Proto-Celtic and Celtic people migrated to the British Isles throughout the later Bronze through the Iron Age to Roman times. I would think the core of your haplogroup and those related arose somewhere within the nexus of or along the Rhine, Danube, Rhone, Adige, etc... rivers which pour out largely from Alpine Central Europe. This seems to be the case with many U152 lineages.

 

[hapiness15]

There is a relatively strong testing bias for Britain, especially in FTDNA but also genetic testing in general. Many Proto-Celtic and Celtic people migrated to the British Isles throughout the later Bronze through the Iron Age to Roman times. I would think the core of your haplogroup and those related arose somewhere within the nexus of or along the Rhine, Danube, Rhone, Adige, etc... rivers which pour out largely from Alpine Central Europe. This seems to be the case with many U152 lineages.

a geneticist resposinble for project R-Z49 said to me by email ''Thank you. R-S8172 was born around 1650 BC. So you can't say he lived in northern Italy. R-U152 and R-L2 lived in Bavaria and Bohemia and their descendants for a long time. The first celts in northern Italy were the Leponti from about 600 BC.'' , in your opnion what would be ancient tribe probably gave origin to this Y? father from R-S8172 , the R-Y4354, https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y4354/ , look shifted a lot to north with strong presence and sweden i can't explain that

 

[Robotnick]

a geneticist resposinble for project R-Z49 said to me by email ''Thank you. R-S8172 was born around 1650 BC. So you can't say he lived in northern Italy. R-U152 and R-L2 lived in Bavaria and Bohemia and their descendants for a long time. The first celts in northern Italy were the Leponti from about 600 BC.'' , in your opnion what would be ancient tribe probably gave origin to this Y? father from R-S8172 , the R-Y4354, https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y4354/ , look shifted a lot to north with strong presence and sweden i can't explain that

People move around. I think there may have been some Bell Beakers or later Proto-Celts who migrated North. The Rhine, Wesser, Vistula rivers are all waterways to Germanic areas and scandinavia. The Tumulus Culture of Bavaria and Czechia traded and interacted with the Nordic Bronze Age peoples, and some may have even gained a foothold there.

Some Celtic and Belgic tribes were scattered into Germania and elsewhere fleeing the Romans during Caesars campaigns as well.

Or it could have been later movements, or anything really.

We are talking about a relatively small sample size so far, so it's hard to jump to conclusions, but it can be said with a fair degree of probability that a Central European origin is likely.

 

[hapiness15]

People move around. I think there may have been some Bell Beakers or later Proto-Celts who migrated North. The Rhine, Wesser, Vistula rivers are all waterways to Germanic areas and scandinavia. The Tumulus Culture of Bavaria and Czechia traded and interacted with the Nordic Bronze Age peoples, and some may have even gained a foothold there.

Some Celtic and Belgic tribes were scattered into Germania and elsewhere fleeing the Romans during Caesars campaigns as well.

Or it could have been later movements, or anything really.

We are talking about a relatively small sample size so far, so it's hard to jump to conclusions, but it can be said with a fair degree of probability that a Central European origin is likely.

in your opnion these haplos would be celtic or roman?

 

[Robotnick]

in your opnion these haplos would be celtic or roman?

That's not the right question to ask really. These haplos pre-date both the formation of "Celtic" and "Roman" peoples. It's descendents could be in both Celtic and Italic plus other peoples.

In your case it could be either. There were Celts coming into Iberia and there were Romans later on. Could even have been Germanic tribes during the migration era (Vandals, Goths, Suebi) who had absorbed that lineage within Central Europe.

 

[hapiness15]

That's not the right question to ask really. These haplos pre-date both the formation of "Celtic" and "Roman" peoples. It's descendents could be in both Celtic and Italic plus other peoples.

In your case it could be either. There were Celts coming into Iberia and there were Romans later on. Could even have been Germanic tribes during the migration era (Vandals, Goths, Suebi) who had absorbed that lineage within Central Europe.

really , is hard to awnser that , ancestors from R-S8172 look too shifted to north maybe it came with suebis , R-Y4353 , R-Y4354 hotzone look like north germany , only explanation i can to say would be maybe suebis or another germanic tribe
R-Y4353: https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Y4353/story