Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[lynxbythetv]

Korce another Albanian city that shares a name with Ireland. Cork means marshland and guess what Korce was before it was a city yep marshlands.

 

[lynxbythetv]

Spille, another Albanian name of city that correlates with Irish Gaelic. Speal means Scyth/cut aka farmlands.

Irish surname Spillane.

 

[lynxbythetv]

Albania has some interesting names. A village called Ballaban (bans'farm), Narte, Luadh which sounds suspiciously like the Gaelic word for traverse, transport, move along. Shengjin does look like the Manx word for lean (Shang) and it is a narrow coastal town. Where does Krabbe come from I wonder.

The Gaelic word for Eagle is Iolar, Illyrians means Eagles not Shiptar. Iolar can also mean "many" so we have 2 words same spelling and different meanings. Illyrians could very well be a self designated term for many/alot/abundance. Perhaps even a group of Eagles. Actually I see the correct term here Iolar means many/great/big and the Gaelic term just means great bird.

Bune river has been propositioned to be from the Illyrian word Barbanna whilst Eqrem Cabej thinks it comes from Buene aka overflowing waters. Now we have a river Boyne on Ireland which allegedly comes from White cow according to Ptolemy and Etymology. Was a river really called White cow or was it a trading point for cows maybe a bridge.of sorts or the Etymologists are incorrect once again. This one is more of a curiosity as oppose to a dead set theory.

Of course many could be just generic Indo European words.

 

[Who Cares?]

https://balkaninsight.com/2022/05/0...ses-found-in-lake-ohrid-thrill-archeologists/

Is there any ancient samples found from the same period from that village?

 

[Archetype0ne]

Is there any ancient samples found from the same period from that village?

Very likely not since this was underwater. But who knows. Either way the samples should be predominantly EEF.

 

[Who Cares?]

Very likely not since this was underwater. But who knows. Either way the samples should be predominantly EEF.

I have personal enquiry since my paternal ancestors supposedly lived in that village until late 17th century (or early 18th), so it would be cool to compare how different I am to a person or couple of people from ancient time.

 

[Archetype0ne]

I have personal enquiry since my paternal ancestors supposedly lived in that village until late 17th century (or early 18th), so it would be cool to compare how different I am to a person or couple of people from ancient time.

Oh, we all are very different from these peoples. We are talking about Neolithic Farmers. Since then we received a couple of gene packages. Y wise more so than autosomally, since autosomally we are still share half our genes with Neolithic farmers. But on top of that we got various hunter gatherer ancestries (Caucasian, eastern, western).
The way I understand it, even ancient populations like Romans, Greeks, Illyrians are closer to modern Balkan populations autosomally than to the pure EEF populations / the first farmers that entered Europe. Which makes sense, 500 BC is much closer to today than to 6000BC.
But if you are really curious and still want to compare, there are a couple of samples in the Reich dataset that should be indistinguishable autosomaly from these people. Try these:

Albania_EN_oEEF I15705
Greece_N I5427
Greece_N.SG Rev5_noUDG.SG
Greece_Peloponnese_N I2318
Greece_Peloponnese_N I2937
Greece_Peloponnese_N I3708
Greece_Peloponnese_N I3709
Greece_Peloponnese_N I3920

IIRC, the Greece samples might have some WHG in them, but the EEF outlier from Albania if my memory of the Southern Arc paper is right is of pure EEF ancestry, was found in some cave.

 

[Who Cares?]

Oh, we all are very different from these peoples. We are talking about Neolithic Farmers. Since then we received a couple of gene packages. Y wise more so than autosomally, since autosomally we are still share half our genes with Neolithic farmers. But on top of that we got various hunter gatherer ancestries (Caucasian, eastern, western).
The way I understand it, even ancient populations like Romans, Greeks, Illyrians are closer to modern Balkan populations autosomally than to the pure EEF populations / the first farmers that entered Europe. Which makes sense, 500 BC is much closer to today than to 6000BC.
But if you are really curious and still want to compare, there are a couple of samples in the Reich dataset that should be indistinguishable autosomaly from these people. Try these:



IIRC, the Greece samples might have some WHG in them, but the EEF outlier from Albania if my memory of the Southern Arc paper is right is of pure EEF ancestry, was found in some cave.

Thanks. On Illustrative DNA they assigned 64% Neolithic farmers + 36% Hunter-Gatherers, so I might not be far away from these samples.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Thanks. On Illustrative DNA they assigned 64% Neolithic farmers + 36% Hunter-Gatherers, so I might not be far away from these samples.

Let me know when you run G25 or something similar on the EEF I suggested, we can compare, along with other modern European populations. Cheers.

 

[norbert]

These foras attract some of the biggest human mentally unstable trash.

They certainly attract a lot of Albanian nationalists who seem to suffer from a major psychosis. Anyone who dares question their nationalist dogma is either an enemy of the Albanian people (when he's a foreigner) or a traitor to them (if he's Albanian). No one ever claimed that toponyms like Shkodra or Lezha are Slavic. In fact, and as Joachim Matzinger has demonstrated, Shkodra is among the best arguments against the Albanians being autochthonous in modern-day Albania. They aren't Illyrians either. To remain with the example of Shkodra, if the Albanians were indigenous to that area, the name of the city would have gone through a sound shift. Instead of that, the Albanians simply adopted the Latin name of the city (Scodra), even though the etymology is Illyrian. All this should be the subject of civilised discussions and it indeed is, except among Albanians where this topic is treated like a religious dogma. Southeast Serbia is most likely where the seminomadic Albanians came from. As pastoralists, they were wandering all over southern Balkans just like the Vlachs until they settled in present-day Albania in the early Middle Ages. No one is autochthonous anywhere. We all come from somewhere else. This obsession with the Blut und Boden approach to history is very damaging to future generations of Albanian historians, linguists, philologists, archeologists etc.

 

[Dibran]

They certainly attract a lot of Albanian nationalists who seem to suffer from a major psychosis. Anyone who dares question their nationalist dogma is either an enemy of the Albanian people (when he's a foreigner) or a traitor to them (if he's Albanian). No one ever claimed that toponyms like Shkodra or Lezha are Slavic. In fact, and as Joachim Matzinger has demonstrated, Shkodra is among the best arguments against the Albanians being autochthonous in modern-day Albania. They aren't Illyrians either. To remain with the example of Shkodra, if the Albanians were indigenous to that area, the name of the city would have gone through a sound shift. Instead of that, the Albanians simply adopted the Latin name of the city (Scodra), even though the etymology is Illyrian. All this should be the subject of civilised discussions and it indeed is, except among Albanians where this topic is treated like a religious dogma. Southeast Serbia is most likely where the seminomadic Albanians came from. As pastoralists, they were wandering all over southern Balkans just like the Vlachs until they settled in present-day Albania in the early Middle Ages. No one is autochthonous anywhere. We all come from somewhere else. This obsession with the Blut und Boden approach to history is very damaging to future generations of Albanian historians, linguists, philologists, archeologists etc.

Clearly you're incorrect. We have numerous J2b-L283 almost exclusively found in Illyrian remains. We have the Southern Illyrian variety of J2b found between MBA to IA Albanians. We even have the upcoming Kamenice study where the preprint even showed that the 2 main branches of R1b found in Kamenice are those carried by Albanians. This preprint even noted the fact that there was little autosomal shift between these IA individuals and modern Albanians. We have 2 of the major 3 lineages among Albanians found in BA/IA Albania. The only missing link is E-V13.

So, I will say in the most polite way I can - you're full of it.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Clearly you're incorrect. We have numerous J2b-L283 almost exclusively found in Illyrian remains. We have the Southern Illyrian variety of J2b found between MBA to IA Albanians. We even have the upcoming Kamenice study where the preprint even showed that the 2 main branches of R1b found in Kamenice are those carried by Albanians. This preprint even noted the fact that there was little autosomal shift between these IA individuals and modern Albanians. We have 2 of the major 3 lineages among Albanians found in BA/IA Albania. The only missing link is E-V13.

So, I will say in the most polite way I can - you're full of it.

R-BY611 was not found in Kamenica, forget about R-Y23373, that will never be found pre 500-800 AD in Albania. Do you know what R-BY611 is or are you intentionally lying? This is what the grand master of rrenjet wrote.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02wnhEq7WLhf2iZfqjzjRwaGYWSUwyzr65SLxx8H2su7SeQUfCdEmpiZ8Ksd1D6g5Dl&id=100070051376601

gjergj wrote that, he has insight to ancients samples that include Kamenice and much more, he knows the results of ancient samples (from Albania) years before they are published. As for your other friend, he is non-grata here and has been banned numerous times. Looneypop/entertain needs to be placed in a stray jacket again.

 

[boriss]

Lollipop, whats the point of overflooding this thread with personal assaults and cherry picking lots of parts of irrelevant works that suit your narrative.


Are you purposely adding unnecessary noise ?

 

[boriss]

Illyrian connection is already disproven, but anyways finding out the specific movement and history of Albanians and other Balkan nations/clans wouldnt make you less Albanian in any way or invalidate your statehood and nationhood.

This would be like Slavic I2 haplogroups basing their irredentism and nationalism on their HG haplogroup and flagging everyone else as less autocthnonous than them in Europe.

Also this forums are very much noble and beneficial as we can even find out our own family heritage and history beyond the usual 10 generations that we know about.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

There is a strong Illyrian substrate among northern Albanians. However Illyrians are not the decisive genetic ancestral component of Albanians. There would be Albanian/Albanoid speakers even without the Illyrian substrate.

 

[boriss]

J2B-l283 right, are there specific subclades that we know of that are Illyrian specific vs some that might have come with the Slavs or Proto-Albanians.

A fb friend claimed that most were "Moessian" but i dont see how could he differentiate them

 

[PaleoRevenge]

This video I posted a while back.

One of the authors(Ilia Mikerezi) is associated with the 2017 study "Ancient and recent admixture layers in Sicily and Southern Italy trace multiple migration routes along the Mediterranean" which kind seems like they are recycling an older study. However this particular news feed indicates the results are from a yet unpublished paper.

Në një projekt të udhëhequr nga një grup studiuesish, u përfshinë në studim popullatat shqiptare në Shqipëri dhe Kosovë, 10 popullata të tjera ballkanike, 12 popullata europiane dhe 2 aziatike.


Janë qartësuar afërsitë gjenetike midis popullsive shqiptare të Shqipërisë dhe Kosovës, duke u nisur nga llogaritja e distancave gjenetike.

SPECIALE/ Me akademik Ilia Mikerezin, AND-ja që zbulon gjakun e arbrit (VIDEO) - Shqiptarja.com

Drejtuesi shkencor i Qendrës kërkimore të bioteknologjisë dhe gjenetikës në Akademinë e Shkencave dëshmon ku banojnë sot popullatat shqiptare. Shqiptarët dhe grekët janë banorët më të hershëm të Ballkanit. Nuk kanë ngjashmëri gjenetike me serbët e me turqit.,akademia e shkencave,ILIA MIKEREZI

shqiptarja.com

 

[Dibran]

Illyrian connection is already disproven, but anyways finding out the specific movement and history of Albanians and other Balkan nations/clans wouldnt make you less Albanian in any way or invalidate your statehood and nationhood.

This would be like Slavic I2 haplogroups basing their irredentism and nationalism on their HG haplogroup and flagging everyone else as less autocthnonous than them in Europe.

Also this forums are very much noble and beneficial as we can even find out our own family heritage and history beyond the usual 10 generations that we know about.

Illyrian connection is not disproven. That's a gross lie on your part. We have sufficient Y-DNA/aDNA evidence for it already. The only thing that one can say is disproven, is an assumption that Albanians come from a homogenous unbroken line of Illyrian descent. Clearly that isn't true.

However, the only people who have any strong Illyrian connection via Y-DNA and some level of autosomal makeup, is in fact Albanians. Language is another issue, but even here, Dardanian for instance is likely not far off in relation anyway.

I think you and your compatriots just don't want to admit Albanians are the only ones with actual strong links on the Y-DNA end to the ancient Paleo-Balkan peoples because your years of propaganda loses its legs and buckles.

 

[boriss]

Illyrian connection is not disproven. That's a gross lie on your part. We have sufficient Y-DNA/aDNA evidence for it already. The only thing that one can say is disproven, is an assumption that Albanians come from a homogenous unbroken line of Illyrian descent. Clearly that isn't true.

However, the only people who have any strong Illyrian connection via Y-DNA and some level of autosomal makeup, is in fact Albanians. Language is another issue, but even here, Dardanian for instance is likely not far off in relation anyway.

I think you and your compatriots just don't want to admit Albanians are the only ones with actual strong links on the Y-DNA end to the ancient Paleo-Balkan peoples because your years of propaganda loses its legs and buckles.

Huge interpolation and lie, i won't turn this thread in another Balkan circle jerk.
Your largest paternal line is made out of EV-13, of which there are 0 findings in Illyrian samples.

This is same as denying Slavic invasion, since my nation and others are all made out of I2 specific subclades that weren't found in the Balkans previously.

Concerning propaganda, there is 0 propaganda that Albanians are or aren't Illyrians or not Paleo-Balkanic people in our history curriculum, nor that changes anything. And I myself think Albanians are definitely from the Balkans.

Also if anything the actual propaganda was and it's based on being heavily good neighbors and that ASNOM/Ilinden were mixed effort which is not true but whatever.

 

[epirus1000]

Huge interpolation and lie, i won't turn this thread in another Balkan circle jerk.
Your largest paternal line is made out of EV-13, of which there are 0 findings in Illyrian samples.

This is same as denying Slavic invasion, since my nation and others are all made out of I2 specific subclades that weren't found in the Balkans previously.

Concerning propaganda, there is 0 propaganda that Albanians are or aren't Illyrians or not Paleo-Balkanic people in our history curriculum, nor that changes anything. And I myself think Albanians are definitely from the Balkans.

Also if anything the actual propaganda was and it's based on being heavily good neighbors and that ASNOM/Ilinden were mixed effort which is not true but whatever.

Yes, EV-13 is very important in Albanians, as it is in the Greeks (probably of Albanian origin).
Nevertheless, Albanians comprise the real Paleo-Balcanic groups.
Having more than 20% of the modern population of J2b haplogroup is clearly a great link to Illyrians.
It's a pitty that Illyrians did not survive in Croats and in Bosnias, especially the fact that the greek J2a is more present in Bosnia that the J2b itself.
What happened to the J2b during the two millennias?
What part of R1b was present simultaneously with J2b in Illyria?
What part of the borders of Illyria did EV-13 reside mostly?

These are some questions that the genetic studies will solve in the upcoming future