Who were and are the Serbs and their DNA

[Taranis]

when I say the word "Aryan" that means Indo-European, IE is the politically correct term for it, they never called themselves Indo-Europeans, they called themselves Aryans (R1a and R1b peoples). celts, germans, slavs, greeks, romans, persians, indo-aryans, scythians, sarmatians, tocharians, thracians, hittites and many others were Aryans. Everyone on this forum is an Aryan speaker because you are reading and writing in english.

Sorry, no. The usage of the term "Aryan" as "Indo-European" is from the 19th century. It has little to do with political correctness that the term because nowadays, at least in the linguistic context, the term "Aryan" just refers to either the Indo-Iranic languages or just the Iranic languages alone.

 

[Milovan]

there was more then one wave of serbs into the balkans both from white/western serbia in the 7th century(unknown archont first serbian dynasty claimed descent from him) and eastern serbia when they came over the carpathians "montes serorum" in the first slavic invasion 6th century.

the word white in old slavic also means western, hence belarus= white russia= western russia
white serbia= western serbia

 

[Milovan]

Sorry, no. The usage of the term "Aryan" as "Indo-European" is from the 19th century. It has little to do with political correctness that the term because nowadays, at least in the linguistic context, the term "Aryan" just refers to either the Indo-Iranic languages or just the Iranic languages alone.

they commonly use the term more then the west these days because of political correctness, there is no world war 2 hitler stigma over there so they have no reason to be ashamed of the name of their ancestors.
sarmatians and scythians whom both slavs and germanic peoples have partial descent (among many other groups) were Iranian speakers. Ireland's name derives from Eire a word derived directly from the word Aryan, celts in Ireland obviously called themselves Aryans. wish i could remember the source for that but I can't I heard it a long time ago.

 

[Bodin]

Do you have proof that Serbians are sarmatians ?. Since Goths resided on the black sea area for 250 years before the invasion of Roman empire and that the Germanic bastanae tribe was there before the Goths, seems to indicate that the sarmatians and syctians are further East. maybe between the black and caspanian seas

I believe I do , I am not 100% convinced , thats why I need to cheeck my teories sharing knowledge with others , so thank you for asking .1) Like I writed in previous post Pliny the Elder mentions Sarmatian tribes Serboi and Haruatoi , those names are same as Serbs and Croats . 2) I2a2 spreading map is the same as the map of moving of Sarmatians as I explained in previous post . 3) Serbs have very small procentage of Slavic R1a1a1a7 ( comon ancestor before about 3.500 years ) , and most of 15% of Serbian is much older ( comon ancestor before 11.000 years ) , and R1a is higher in Voyvodina then in the rest of Serbia . In Croatia there is more R1a because Slavonia is settled by Slavs who were moved here by Avars to serve as they border guards -Krajišnici. In Bosnia is greater diversity of R1a genes in Europe that can mean only there was several waves of R1a or that R1a is originated on Balkan - it is not Slavic 4) I allready mentioned title of župan and ban which are Iranian R1a 5) Burrial customs : Slavs use to burn they deads and then buried they ashes with no artefacts , Sarmatians use to buried whole body , with a lot of artefacts , like it is in the Banat where they lived during Avar Khaganate , Croatians had same burial practises , Serbians use to burn them deads and put ashes in special builded cotages of dried grass and wood ,which is simillar to burial customs of Scythians like portraed in Herodotus , only Scythians use to balm they deads and not to burn them. 5) Mythology : In Serb , Croat and Bulgarian mythology there is creature called i zmaj , and it is not same like Slavic zmei which is more like Serbian aždaha ( also Iranian word, aži are giant sneakelike creatures , and až Dahan is one of them ) - have multiple heds , and are evil . On the other hand Serbian zmaj is smaller ( up to 2 m ) ,sneakelike , but it can take of the scales and become a man , it is not evil unless it is offended . That creature is same like Chinese
dragon which is bringing god fortune and helping humans , it is also very potent - have intercourse with womans and meers , later they born heroes ( Miloš Obilić , Zmaj Ognjeni Vuk ,... ) and god horses ( Jabučilo ) . Also there is same legend that Chinese dragon and Serbian zmaj are becomed of very old carp . So Serbians , Croats , Bulgarians use to have contacts with China like Sarmatians
You say that Goths comed on Black see before invasion to Rome ,and that is true but Goths could not carry I2a2 - there is no in Gotalanda in Sweden where they come from . But Goths made they mark on Serbs and Croats genes - I1 ( 7% both) is probably mostly Gothic ,some of it is Saxon ( Sasi -miners) , and some from mercenaries of Midle ages kings , some of R1a is also Gothic - it is strong in Gotalanda.

 

[Bodin]

Also you said that Sarmatians use to live in betweh stean Caspian and Black sea , that is true but during V century BC , afterwards they moved in north stepes of the Black sea , and then on west (there was Sarmatians in Banat , Alans moved with Vandals in Spain and Africa , Sarmatians in today Romania fight the Rome on the Marcomanic side during Marcoman wars , and in III and IV century). Bastarnae : they origin is not certain , they name is cognate to word bastard and they were mixed , even they culture is half German , half Sarmatian

 

[Milovan]

Also you said that Sarmatians use to live in between the Caspian and Black sea , that is true but during V century BC , afterwards they moved in north stepes of the Black sea , and then on west

depends on what maps you look at, scythians were on both sides of the caspian during certain times, I saw one map where scythians were west of the caspian and sarmatians were east of the caspian. the sarmatians obviously moved west into scythian territory from there. before east of the caspian was considered sarmatian territory it was scythian territory which proves herodotus theory that sarmatians descend from scythians (at least partially)

yes you were right serboi, not sarban thats the pashtun tribe I think, I had the names confused.

 

[Bodin]

What are you talking about?

None of the areas that are high in I2a2 were invaded by the Slavs, it was probably a last refuge from slavs and are known hotspots of "Illyria" culture, which is found around the same time in places near Stolac, Hercegovina.

1) Geographic barriers make it difficult for Dinaric Balkans to become slavicised. Dinaric Balkans shows high levels of I2a2, almost no R1a.

2) Non Dinaric areas of the Balkans show high levels of R1a admixture, ie. Slavonia, Croatia.

3) A lack of R1a in dinaric areas of the balkans infers that very little slav admixture, since carriers were most definitely a mixture of haplogroups, one being R1a.

So, to claim I2a2 Slavic is idiotic. There's various mutations within I2a2 that now we differentiate between dinaric north, south and eastern european dinaric (russian).

We don't consider ourselves Slavs, and stay away from our people.

I2a2 cant be Illyrian because , Mesapic tribes in Italy were Illyrians that crosed Adriatic sea , they even speaked same languague , and there is no I2a2 in Mesapic aereas. Also newcomers -Serbs and Croats have more I2a2 then old Albanians , Romanians and Greeks.
I2a2 is not Slavic neather but Sarmatian , as I explained before it spread matches spread of Sarmatian moves , it is present in Slavic lands because Sarmatians use to live there and rule protoslavic nations ( remember Jordanes say that name Slav is new one , and they use to call themselves differently) . They also use to marry and to sleep with Slavic womans ( read Herodotus report about very free sexual life of Sarmatians ) , so when Slavs were created as new nation some of them were I2a2 , so I2a2 is partially Slavic .
Also about name of Serbs and Siberia , if you won to se do two words have simillar roots just remove vocals SRB and SBR is not the same , Siberia is named after Turkic Sabirs , and it means "land of dreams" on Tatar languague.
Lot of Indoeuropean nations have the name made of Sora ( sanskrit: sky , old, wise , gard ,... ) , it not necesarly mean that they are conected with Serbs

 

[Milovan]

I2a2 cant be Illyrian because , Mesapic tribes in Italy were Illyrians that crosed Adriatic sea , they even speaked same languague , and there is no I2a2 in Mesapic aereas. Also newcomers -Serbs and Croats have more I2a2 then old Albanians , Romanians and Greeks.
I2a2 is not Slavic neather but Sarmatian , as I explained before it spread matches spread of Sarmatian moves , it is present in Slavic lands because Sarmatians use to live there and rule protoslavic nations ( remember Jordanes say that name Slav is new one , and they use to call themselves differently) . They also use to marry and to sleep with Slavic womans ( read Herodotus report about very free sexual life of Sarmatians ) , so when Slavs were created as new nation some of them were I2a2 , so I2a2 is partially Slavic .
Also about name of Serbs and Siberia , if you won to se do two words have simillar roots just remove vocals SRB and SBR is not the same , Siberia is named after Turkic Sabirs , and it means "land of dreams" on Tatar languague.
Lot of Indoeuropean nations have the name made of Sora ( sanskrit: sky , old, wise , gard ,... ) , it not necesarly mean that they are conected with Serbs

theres no proof I2a2 is sarmatian I believe it is proto-illyrian/proto balkan and some of them moved east to the steppes to mix with the steppe scytho-sarmatian people and became slavs from this mixing, then the balto-slavic union from there.
yes I2a2 is present in all slav nations but majority R1a except those that migrated to the balkans later on (the I2a2 homeland) where I2a2 became more prevalent then R1a due to absorbing the locals. yes not every word with an "S" and an "R" in it mean serb, thats wishful thinking.
if I2a2 is sarmatian why isn't there any in asia between the caspian and the altai? the sarmatians were there and slavs weren't, those turkicized peoples are R1a heavy from scytho-sarmatian blood. how much I2a2 is in central asia?

bulgaria and greece were never illyria, the dinaric alps was
illyrian albanian theories I've heard say this too then the illyrians took epirus
yugoslavia region was only inhabited by illyrians and vinca before roman empire
epirus was epirus (greek) for a long time before illyrians came there
the I2a2 homeland is illyria

also people say hap I is indigenous to europe
meaning it did not come from asia like the sarmatians did
show me hap I or I2a2 originating in asia then I'll believe it

 

[Bodin]

Not for Sprinkles who cannot develop discussion in the accepted way, I would like to put some short summarized information about the settlement of the Balkans, which could help for the interpretation of the facts, related to haplogroups. If something is not the facts taken from academic editions, it is indicated as my opinion. I'd like to discuss only scientifically accepted facts or scientifically based suggestions under internationally accepted rules of equity and tolerance.

[FONT=&quot]--- The oldest known tribes in the Balkans are Dacians, Tracians, Albanians and Illyrians. However, it is not clear are they autochthonous or they were newcomers at that period of time. The point is that their languages were Indo-European (IE), and to get these languages (about 4000 years ago), they had to meet IE people. They could meet them somewhere else and populate the Balkans after this, or they could meet them in the Balkan. The latter has any no archeological evidence. Do they brought I2a groups to the Balkans or they met it here and assimilated? For me, the idea that some tribes from other place (Anatolia?) invaded the Balkans and Indo-Europeanized the autochthonous population seems the most adequate. The languages disappeared yet during the time of Roman Empire.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--- 2500 years ago - Celtic Invasion. Celts reached the Greece and even Anatolia, but mostly they stayed in the northern, west-northern and eastern parts of the Balkans. They were first who built the City of Belgrade. Celts were one of the founders of the modern country Romania. They probably had mostly R1b haplogroup.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--- 4th century AC - Gothic invasion. They had large latifundia there and stayed for a long time. In some places, service in Gothic languages in churches was recorded as late as in 9th century. The Goths could be enriched in R1a groups by the time of invasion, as they previously lived very close to Slavs at the territories of the modern Ukraine and Russia.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--- Gepids. They were also German people. They also could have some R1a haplogroups, as Slavs were their neighbors .[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These two Germanic groups could be actually responsible for that subclade of I2a, which was found at the territory of Germany and was ascribes to White Serbs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]---5th century - Raids of Huns. Huns are of unknown origin; Chinese, Turkish and Iranian origin was suggested. Who knows which haplogroups they brought?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--- 5-7th Centuries - Avars raids. Again the origin is unknown, probably of mixed origins. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The last two groups were characterized by extreme brutality, especially Avars. Both of them disappeared without leaving defined ethnic groups after them, but they could leave their haplogroups just because they raped Slavic and Balkan women.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--- Here we are coming closely to Slavs, since it is believed that Avars brought Slavs with them. It looks that originally Avars forced some Slavic tribes which were on their way from the East to go with them, to populate Pannonia with its fertile lands and to supply Avars with agricultural products. Slavs also suffered a lot from Avar’s brutality. It looks that in the beginning , Slavs were not skilled in war, but later they got this experience and contributed to Avar’s raids. Later, they went to this practice themselves. Surprisingly, they were very skilled seafarer s and invaded into Greek areas from the sea.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Before final colonization of the Balkans, they stayed in Pannonia for 1-1.5 century (#-5 generations). During this time, they could be enriched with I2a haplogroup, because they captivated Balkan people during their raids, the whole families, first forced them to work for them, but later allowed them to live free between them. Slavicization of the Balkans is the fact commonly accepted by the historic science.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]8 centuries after, a big part of the Balkans has got under the Ottoman Empire rule. This could bring some haplogroups from Turkey into Slav Balkan population. In most parts of Ottoman Europe, the Christian nobility was removed and replaced by a foreign mostly Turkish sometimes Albanian). They had so called [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Right of the first night” over Slav population. This genetic influence was less in Bosnia and Hercegovina, because there larger numberof people converted to Islam, which protected them from such type of treatment.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A lot of things about that could be read in [/FONT]Wiki. I am not allowed to put here addresses.

[FONT=&quot]So, we can see that the history of the Balkans can explain the variety of haplogroups found there. I believe that based on the modern haplogroups, no final conclusion may be done about the prehistorical haplogroups in this region (actually, not in Europe, in general). If you are interested in more details please let me know.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]It is also a mistake to relate one haplogroup to one nation, whichever this haplogroup is. It could be that in prehistoric time, the tribes had less diversity in haplogroups. But even measurement in 2-5 years old groves in Europe and Asia already show some admixture. Especially now, after all this migrations, all the nations have mixed haplogroups, which reflects their history.[/FONT]

You numbered almoust all setllement waves , but you forgot to say that Slavs populated Balkan during the rule of emperor Focas ( Byzantine 602-610 ) from Vlachia , they for shore setled in Thracia , Macedonia and Hellas as far as Pelopones , but it seems that Bosnia, Herzegovina and Dalmatia is populated by Avars not Slavs , Avars bringed Slavs in Slovenai- Caranthania to serve as borderguards-krajišnici , and Slavs in Slavonia . You forget about most important setlling wave for this discusion - setlling of Serbs and Croats during rule of emperor Heracleos ( 610-641) , and after the siege of Constantinopolis 626 . Serbs and Croats were called by
emperor to protect empire from Slavs and Avars .

 

[Bodin]

depends on what maps you look at, scythians were on both sides of the caspian during certain times, I saw one map where scythians were west of the caspian and sarmatians were east of the caspian. the sarmatians obviously moved west into scythian territory from there. before east of the caspian was considered sarmatian territory it was scythian territory which proves herodotus theory that sarmatians descend from scythians (at least partially)

yes you were right serboi, not sarban thats the pashtun tribe I think, I had the names confused.

Acording to Herodotus ( the most reliable story , others being they are descendants of Herakleos and woman-sneak) , Scythians use to live betwen Caspian and Aral sea , and then come Masagets and push them west , so Scythians conquered Cimmerian land pushing Cimmerians in Asia Minor . Former Cimmerian land was called Scythia after Scythians , and it was allmoust perfect square with sides long 20 days of walk , laying on Black sea shore. Herodotus say that Sarmatians are descendants of Scythians and one sheep of Amazon wariors , regarding there is no proff that Amazons ever egzisted , I believe more in Diodorus version of Sarmatian origin: During the Scythian rule in Asia ( VII century BC) they brought parts of Medians north of Caucasus , that Medians are called Sarmatians or Solar Medes . Kurds are partualy descendants of Medians , and they have 25% I2a2-Din . About end of I century and begining of II century Saramatians previosly Scythian vasals conquered Scythia and moved there -south Ukraine, and united themselves with Alans during III century . Alans were tribal union of Masagetes and Tisagetes . Alan means "one that live in steppes " , Alans speak same Iranian languague like Sarmatians , and similar to Scythian ( Herodotus say that Saramatians speak spoiled Scythian - similar but somehow diferent ) . During I century Sarmatians helping Dacians in batle against Rome . When Rome lived Dacia Sarmatians moved in especialy in Banat where were found lots of Sarmatian artefacts and graves , they lived there even during Avar khaganate . Acordin to Tacitus Vandals were olso Sarmatian , there is strong I2a2 in Sardinia - settled by mixed Alans and Vandals from Spain and Africa - there is some I2a2 in North Africa especially Lybia . In IV century Gots come down from Vistula and conquered center of Sarmatian state on Black sea separating Sarmatians in two halfs , one living on north of Caucasus , and second living in Europe in todays Moldavia , Romania , Banat and north to Baltic - Vandals.

 

[Bodin]

theres no proof I2a2 is sarmatian I believe it is proto-illyrian/proto balkan and some of them moved east to the steppes to mix with the steppe scytho-sarmatian people and became slavs from this mixing, then the balto-slavic union from there.
yes I2a2 is present in all slav nations but majority R1a except those that migrated to the balkans later on (the I2a2 homeland) where I2a2 became more prevalent then R1a due to absorbing the locals. yes not every word with an "S" and an "R" in it mean serb, thats wishful thinking.
if I2a2 is sarmatian why isn't there any in asia between the caspian and the altai? the sarmatians were there and slavs weren't, those turkicized peoples are R1a heavy from scytho-sarmatian blood. how much I2a2 is in central asia?

bulgaria and greece were never illyria, the dinaric alps was
illyrian albanian theories I've heard say this too then the illyrians took epirus
yugoslavia region was only inhabited by illyrians and vinca before roman empire
epirus was epirus (greek) for a long time before illyrians came there
the I2a2 homeland is illyria

also people say hap I is indigenous to europe
meaning it did not come from asia like the sarmatians did
show me hap I or I2a2 originating in asia then I'll believe it

I2a2-din is to young (couple thousand of years ) to be on Balkans since Mezolite . There was heavy anihilation of ProtoBalkans during Hunic and Avar/Slavic raides so they cant influence todays genetics with more than70% ( I2a2, G2a , J1, J2 , E1b1 ,L, T,R1b, some of R1a in Serbia ) . Herzegovina is place where the Serbs and Croatians are first settled its not logical that there is prevailing Illyrian -I2a2 gen , unless its not Illyrian . Mesapi in Italy are cousins of Illyrians , why dont they have I2a2 ?
Only Paleolitic Europe group could be R1b ( some forms of it ) , because only nation that not speak Indoeuropean in Europe are Basqui (Esqudi) and they are more than 90% R1b .There is some older I2 on Balkans and it is I2*B present in Armenia , Asia Minor , Creete(9%) and Balkans especially Greece.
I am not shore there is no any I2a2 in betwen Caspian and Aral sea , I would check it out . But there is heavy % of R1a there and its not Slavic but Turcish from invading Mongolian and Turcic tribes since Hun invasion in IV century to Uzbeki invasion in XVI century and knowing Mongolians they wouldnt left too many indigenous population . There is certain I2a2 in Xingyang ( northwest China ) , and in Tadjikistan ( Pamir aeria ) . Betwen Caspian and Aral sea were Alans and they mostly moved with Vandas , Yazigi in Banat and Roxolani in todays Mordvinia.
Also there is not any prove there was moving of Daco-Thracians or Illyrians or any other Balkans in steppes( there wouldnt be any diference betwean Illyrians , Panonians and Tracians because after rebelion 6-9AD Roman moved and mixed parts of Illyrians , Panonians , Scordisci, and Tracians and formed new artificial tribes ) , but there is tons of proofs of Sarmatian moving to west.

 

[Bodin]

And I forgot to ask if the Bulgaria and Greece were never Illyrian , and Illyrians are I2a2 , why Greeks have 10% I2a2 and Bulgarians 20% . Have you ever heard of Odrisk Kingdom?

 

[zanipolo]

Also you said that Sarmatians use to live in betweh stean Caspian and Black sea , that is true but during V century BC , afterwards they moved in north stepes of the Black sea , and then on west (there was Sarmatians in Banat , Alans moved with Vandals in Spain and Africa , Sarmatians in today Romania fight the Rome on the Marcomanic side during Marcoman wars , and in III and IV century). Bastarnae : they origin is not certain , they name is cognate to word bastard and they were mixed , even they culture is half German , half Sarmatian

Thanks, thats all I was interested in - iron age.

So clearly the slavs did not carry I2a2 but got it from the assimilation of balkan people in the dark ages

 

[zanipolo]

theres no proof I2a2 is sarmatian I believe it is proto-illyrian/proto balkan and some of them moved east to the steppes to mix with the steppe scytho-sarmatian people and became slavs from this mixing, then the balto-slavic union from there.
yes I2a2 is present in all slav nations but majority R1a except those that migrated to the balkans later on (the I2a2 homeland) where I2a2 became more prevalent then R1a due to absorbing the locals. yes not every word with an "S" and an "R" in it mean serb, thats wishful thinking.
if I2a2 is sarmatian why isn't there any in asia between the caspian and the altai? the sarmatians were there and slavs weren't, those turkicized peoples are R1a heavy from scytho-sarmatian blood. how much I2a2 is in central asia?

bulgaria and greece were never illyria, the dinaric alps was
illyrian albanian theories I've heard say this too then the illyrians took epirus
yugoslavia region was only inhabited by illyrians and vinca before roman empire
epirus was epirus (greek) for a long time before illyrians came there
the I2a2 homeland is illyria

also people say hap I is indigenous to europe
meaning it did not come from asia like the sarmatians did
show me hap I or I2a2 originating in asia then I'll believe it

There are linguistic people who claim there is a Q-illyrian group from Dalmatia northwards and a P-Illyrian group from Montenegro southwards. While I am unsure about this. Greek Historians say that the Q group was a celtic-illyrian mix, while the P group was dardanian-thracian mix.
Knowing that Northern Italy was gallic-ligurian up to the Carni and Taurisci tribes in Noricum, it would seem reasonable that I2a2 was present in northern Illyrcium 1000 years before any sarmatians ( or sarmatian mix ) arrived.

I2a2 could be a mix of gothic and baltic people as this is what happened over centuries of Gothic migration from Scandza/gotland into pommerain, estonian lands

 

[Bodin]

Thanks, thats all I was interested in - iron age.

So clearly the slavs did not carry I2a2 but got it from the assimilation of balkan people in the dark ages

.

What Slavs I was saying that SARMATIANS - Serbs and Croats bring it . Your claim is that I2a2 , E1b1 , J1 , J2 , G2a , L , T , some of R1a , R1b is all from populations before the Dark ages if I understood you corectly that means that over 80% of Serbian population are descedants of Balkans population before Dark ages , and 10% ( I1 and I2b ) is certainly Gothic . So all of reports about great raids of Huns , Avars and Sclavs are lies so as the reports of deads of hundreds of thousands and deserted Balcanic regias . Also there was big plague during the rule of emperor Justinian ( 527-565) that kiled 1/3 of empire population , maybe it walk around Balkan , I dont think so .

 

[Bodin]

There are linguistic people who claim there is a Q-illyrian group from Dalmatia northwards and a P-Illyrian group from Montenegro southwards. While I am unsure about this. Greek Historians say that the Q group was a celtic-illyrian mix, while the P group was dardanian-thracian mix.
Knowing that Northern Italy was gallic-ligurian up to the Carni and Taurisci tribes in Noricum, it would seem reasonable that I2a2 was present in northern Illyrcium 1000 years before any sarmatians ( or sarmatian mix ) arrived.

I2a2 could be a mix of gothic and baltic people as this is what happened over centuries of Gothic migration from Scandza/gotland into pommerain, estonian lands

I2a2 in Italy comes from Veneti -Eneti and its lot weaker than one in Serbian and Croatian lands , and there is almoust none I2a2 in Scandinavia or Pomerania or Estonia .

 

[zanipolo]

.

What Slavs I was saying that SARMATIANS - Serbs and Croats bring it . Your claim is that I2a2 , E1b1 , J1 , J2 , G2a , L , T , some of R1a , R1b is all from populations before the Dark ages if I understood you corectly that means that over 80% of Serbian population are descedants of Balkans population before Dark ages , and 10% ( I1 and I2b ) is certainly Gothic . So all of reports about great raids of Huns , Avars and Sclavs are lies so as the reports of deads of hundreds of thousands and deserted Balcanic regias . Also there was big plague during the rule of emperor Justinian ( 527-565) that kiled 1/3 of empire population , maybe it walk around Balkan , I dont think so .

I am not talking about any other marker except I2a2. I believe the Hunnic invasion brought another marker. If you believe this marker was brought from Sarmatian lands, then what was the marker in Old-yugoslavian lands ?

 

[Bodin]

I am not talking about any other marker except I2a2. I believe the Hunnic invasion brought another marker. If you believe this marker was brought from Sarmatian lands, then what was the marker in Old-yugoslavian lands ?

My oppinion which dont have to be true , but I believe it is , is that there was no one marker in Old - Yugoslavian lands , but few of them : Illyrians by my oppinion were mainly E1b1b , with maybe some ancient R1a , aldo they have other markers to ( these aply to other nations so I dont going to repeat it), Thracians were mainly J haplogroup with strong E , because they had come from Asia Minor , Dacians were cousins of Thracians so they genes were very simillar , like Illyrian and Panonian (Dardans were IllyroThracian tribe who use to live in todays Kosovo and parts of Macedonia , on they aeria today there is huge amount of E1b1b and J genes and almoust no I2a2 , especially since Serbs left the aeria) Hellens ( Greeks ) had a lot of Pelazg genes which is same like Palestinian - mainly E1b1b1 and J ( Peleshets in people from see raids ) , while IndoEuropean languague was brought by R1a from stepes . Celts were mainly R1b maybe with some I . Goths that had come later bring mostly I1 genes and I2b . There was also I2*B which is strong in Crete and Armenia , she come on Balkan long time ago . G is the haplogroup of goatbriders that moved to Europe during Neolite , and it is present in all mauntin regions - see Alps, Caucasus , Apenini ,... It is not conectet to any nation , only to high mauntins. L and T comed from India probably via traders during Roman period . There was also paleolitic R1b older then Celts which is also present in Asia Minor .
And I believe Serbs and Croats bring next haplogroups : I2a2 ( highest % ) , R1a ( next % ) ,K (next % , this aply only on Serbs , Croatian K is below 1%), J2 ( next % ) , N (next % , again aply only on Serbs , Croats dont have it ) , E1b1b ( next % ) , Q ( next % , probably received from Huns ). If you think that make no sence please point out the holes in theory , I would apriceate that .

 

[zanipolo]

My oppinion which dont have to be true , but I believe it is , is that there was no one marker in Old - Yugoslavian lands , but few of them : Illyrians by my oppinion were mainly E1b1b , with maybe some ancient R1a , aldo they have other markers to ( these aply to other nations so I dont going to repeat it), Thracians were mainly J haplogroup with strong E , because they had come from Asia Minor , Dacians were cousins of Thracians so they genes were very simillar , like Illyrian and Panonian (Dardans were IllyroThracian tribe who use to live in todays Kosovo and parts of Macedonia , on they aeria today there is huge amount of E1b1b and J genes and almoust no I2a2 , especially since Serbs left the aeria) Hellens ( Greeks ) had a lot of Pelazg genes which is same like Palestinian - mainly E1b1b1 and J ( Peleshets in people from see raids ) , while IndoEuropean languague was brought by R1a from stepes . Celts were mainly R1b maybe with some I . Goths that had come later bring mostly I1 genes and I2b . There was also I2*B which is strong in Crete and Armenia , she come on Balkan long time ago . G is the haplogroup of goatbriders that moved to Europe during Neolite , and it is present in all mauntin regions - see Alps, Caucasus , Apenini ,... It is not conectet to any nation , only to high mauntins. L and T comed from India probably via traders during Roman period . There was also paleolitic R1b older then Celts which is also present in Asia Minor .
And I believe Serbs and Croats bring next haplogroups : I2a2 ( highest % ) , R1a ( next % ) ,K (next % , this aply only on Serbs , Croatian K is below 1%), J2 ( next % ) , N (next % , again aply only on Serbs , Croats dont have it ) , E1b1b ( next % ) , Q ( next % , probably received from Huns ). If you think that make no sence please point out the holes in theory , I would apriceate that .

Sarmatian information
http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf

It is very strange that both the ancient greeks and slavs ( and still the opinion today) isolate the Illyrians as being only from the south with an E marker, while the northern area with its I marker is not really a "pure" illyrian one. very strange.

 

[Bodin]

Sarmatian information
http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf

It is very strange that both the ancient greeks and slavs ( and still the opinion today) isolate the Illyrians as being only from the south with an E marker, while the northern area with its I marker is not really a "pure" illyrian one. very strange.

I didnt realy understood that sentence are ,you agreed with me ? Or you saying that Herzegovina is were purest Illyrians were , if that is the case I cant agreed because there have been a lot of Celtic admixture in that aeria , and today there is no R1b , also there is not a lot of J and E which ones are certainly Balkanic ( unless you think its brought up by the Huns-joke ), all that imply that ancient population in Herzegovina was almoust totaly replaced by incoming Red Croatian and few years / decades later Serbs . We should remember that was the center of Serbian settling , and if somewhere out there would be descendants of Serbs from times of movings it would be in Herzegovina , not in Kosovo or
Ras , because in time of settling Kosovo was not in Serbian state ( first time Serbs entered Kosovo was during XI century under Župan Vukan ) , and Ras was only border fortres up to IX century .