IronSide
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In another thread I made an argument assuming that a direct relationship exists between similar Y-dna in populations and similar language (if they have similar Y-dna they have similar language), and I was immediately warned not to assume such a thing.
What I had in mind but couldn't communicate it at the moment was this thought experiment :
Let's assume we have a population P, its members share a common mutation, which means they all descend from one man, this population is pure, no other population mixed with it in its lifetime, and so no other mutation defines it, this population occupies a single niche, so they are not divided in space, then it stands to reason that they speak the same language L, we can label such a population as an Atomic population
let's suppose that this population separates in two, P1 and P2, each with a specific mutation that defines it, and they are separated in space, occupying different niches, their separation in space and time lets them evolve two languages L1 and L2 that are descended from the original language L, let's assume that an external population X wants to occupy the same niche as P1 and eventually comes into contact with it, there are two possible situations :
1- they interact peacefully, forming a new population (X + P1) the language outcome of this new union is of three cases:
It is reasonable to assume that the second situation (war) was more common than the first one, in the old days, it is difficult to imagine two populations, with different languages, different appearance, different gods, would immediately decide to live together peacefully, they were all rather Xenophobic, obviously different is evil.
Situation 2a1 is obviously the best model to the Indo-European migrations, many native languages formed substrates to various IE branches, and so it follows that certain Y-dna haplogroups in these native populations spoke these languages, but later adopted the language of their masters.
Returning to our example, let's suppose population X passed it's language, with new population (X + P1), let's also assume that a new splinter group breaks off from this population, with all it's members descending from P1, its language would be that of X. Maciamo has demonstrated how E-V13 might be an assimilated IE haplogroup that expanded to the Balkans.
All human populations began as Atomic populations , gaining genetic complexity with time, it is then safe to assume that Y-haplogroups that appeared in an isolated niche must have spoken one language, haplogroups I,J,O,H,G are then each associated with a lost ancient language family.
Haplogroup E1b1b is an interesting example of how a lineage is associated with a language family, E1b1b is associated with the spread of the Afro-Asiatic languages, because no other lineage challenged E1b1b in its domain (Arabian peninsula and north Africa), E1b1b is 26000 years old, the languages spoken by his descendants are still related after all this time. E1b1a is similarly related to the Niger-Congo languages, haplogroup O forms a kind of a linguistic tree.
What I had in mind but couldn't communicate it at the moment was this thought experiment :
Let's assume we have a population P, its members share a common mutation, which means they all descend from one man, this population is pure, no other population mixed with it in its lifetime, and so no other mutation defines it, this population occupies a single niche, so they are not divided in space, then it stands to reason that they speak the same language L, we can label such a population as an Atomic population
let's suppose that this population separates in two, P1 and P2, each with a specific mutation that defines it, and they are separated in space, occupying different niches, their separation in space and time lets them evolve two languages L1 and L2 that are descended from the original language L, let's assume that an external population X wants to occupy the same niche as P1 and eventually comes into contact with it, there are two possible situations :
1- they interact peacefully, forming a new population (X + P1) the language outcome of this new union is of three cases:
- 1a : only one of the two languages survives, usually in this case the population of the surviving language is numerically far superior to the one that lost it.
- 1b : both languages survives resulting in bilingualism,this case can continue, but usually as time progresses, this bilingualism disappears resulting in
- 1c : a fusion of both languages into a new one, combining the lexical and grammatical properties of its predecessors
- 2a : only one language survives, this is also of two cases:
- 2a1 : the language of the victors survives, while the language of the losers disappears, or forms a substrate to the dominant language.
- 2a2 : the language of the losers survives, with the victors adopting their subjects language, this can only happen if they are vastly outnumbered.
- 2b : both languages survives, resulting in bilingualism, resolves itself to either 2a1 or 2a2, or continues.
It is reasonable to assume that the second situation (war) was more common than the first one, in the old days, it is difficult to imagine two populations, with different languages, different appearance, different gods, would immediately decide to live together peacefully, they were all rather Xenophobic, obviously different is evil.
Situation 2a1 is obviously the best model to the Indo-European migrations, many native languages formed substrates to various IE branches, and so it follows that certain Y-dna haplogroups in these native populations spoke these languages, but later adopted the language of their masters.
Returning to our example, let's suppose population X passed it's language, with new population (X + P1), let's also assume that a new splinter group breaks off from this population, with all it's members descending from P1, its language would be that of X. Maciamo has demonstrated how E-V13 might be an assimilated IE haplogroup that expanded to the Balkans.
All human populations began as Atomic populations , gaining genetic complexity with time, it is then safe to assume that Y-haplogroups that appeared in an isolated niche must have spoken one language, haplogroups I,J,O,H,G are then each associated with a lost ancient language family.
Haplogroup E1b1b is an interesting example of how a lineage is associated with a language family, E1b1b is associated with the spread of the Afro-Asiatic languages, because no other lineage challenged E1b1b in its domain (Arabian peninsula and north Africa), E1b1b is 26000 years old, the languages spoken by his descendants are still related after all this time. E1b1a is similarly related to the Niger-Congo languages, haplogroup O forms a kind of a linguistic tree.
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