Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
TBH, when you consider connections to Catacomb culture and Mycenaean Greece, I'm still inclined to believe that Proto-Greeks came from the Steppe.
Similarities between the Catacomb culture and Mycenaean Greece are particularly striking. These include types of socketed spear-heads, types of cheekpieces for horses, and the custom of making masks for the dead.[14]
The Catacomb culture is named for its burials. These augmented the shaft grave of the Yamnaya culture with burial niche at its base. This is the so-called catacomb.[2] Such graves have also been found in Mycenaean Greece and parts of Eastern Europe.[a]
In some cases, the skull of deceased Catacomb people was modelled in clay. This involved the filling of the mouth, ears and nasal cavity with clay and modeling the surface features of the face. This practice is associated with high-status burials containing prestige items. The practice was performed on men, women, and children. It has been suggested that these clay masks may have served as a prototype for the later gold masks found in Mycenaean Greece.[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacomb_culture
The impression I get reading it is these Mukians could have possibly been an Iranian population.
The Ainianae of Strabo appear to be Greek (or Greek in origin because language shifts are possible in an area dominated by another linguistic group). Most probable interepretation is that they moved from Greece, during the historical times. And there was a tribe with the same name from Central Greece.
Caucasus has a more important role in the Greek culture than Iranian culture, for example we know Zeus chained Prometheus to this mountain for stealing fire from the gods, this story exists in non-Indo-European cultures in the South of Caucasus too, like Georgian Amirani: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amirani As you read this legend is traced between 3,000 and 2,000 years BC in the south of Caucasus. Talysh people in this region believe that their ancestor was an enormous bronze giant, similar to Talos in Greek mythology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talos In Talysh mythology, there is also the legend of Ledu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talysh_mythology "according to legend they are brothers who saving their sister; carry the symbol of the savior from enemies they are the image of the messiah for the Talysh.", it is also similar to the story of Leda in Greek mythology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_and_Pollux
It is important to know where ancient Greece was, for example where was Mount Olympus? In modern Greece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Olympus, Cyprus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Olympus_(Cyprus) or Anatolia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahtalı_Dağı ? All of them are less than 3,000 meters high, the second highest mountain in Iran which has a height of 4,850 meters, is Alam Kuh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alam-Kuh Its old name seems to be Olumpu. Samavar stone close to summit of Alam Kuh:I don't have a problem with your view but if we follow mythology there are traditions of movement from Greece to that region. The Argonautes, the Story of Jason and Media. The story of Perseus. Also a story about a movement towards Syria, Lebanon associated with the story of Io.
Let’s not be pedantic. The connection between steppe and early Greeks is evident in both culture and genetics. Between 2300-1700BCE we have three types of shifts:Cultural (Minoan monumental tombs were above ground, the new ones are below), linguistic (an IE language appears) and genetic ( there is a crystal clear gene flow form the steppe). People that posit an Anatolian Route for paleobalkan languages need to make it compatible to the above triple combo, because right now it is not.
Let’s not be pedantic. The connection between steppe and early Greeks is evident in both culture and genetics. Between 2300-1700BCE we have three types of shifts:Cultural (Minoan monumental tombs were above ground, the new ones are below), linguistic (an IE language appears) and genetic ( there is a crystal clear gene flow form the steppe). People that posit an Anatolian Route for paleobalkan languages need to make it compatible to the above triple combo, because right now it is not.
Let’s not be pedantic. The connection between steppe and early Greeks is evident in both culture and genetics. Between 2300-1700BCE we have three types of shifts:Cultural (Minoan monumental tombs were above ground, the new ones are below), linguistic (an IE language appears) and genetic ( there is a crystal clear gene flow form the steppe). People that posit an Anatolian Route for paleobalkan languages need to make it compatible to the above triple combo, because right now it is not.
It was Iranian-related ancestry which came to Greece about 2,000 BC, wasn't it?
Which Y-DNA haplogroups you associate with movements from Iran to Greece? In order for a movement from Iran to Greece to have taken place some clades later found in Greece should be proven to have existed in Iran first.
The term 'Iranian-related' is a misnomer. Note that no one uses a term like 'Ukrainian related'.
Consider a scenario where instead of the term 'steppe ancestry' which is also bad, we were using a term like 'Ukrainian related ancestry'.
There was little if any Steppe ancestry identified in all published samples from the Middle to Late Bronze Age “Minoan” culture (individuals dating to 2400-1700 BCE), although these individuals derived about 15% of their ancestry from groups related to early Iranian farmers (from here on referred to as “Iranian-related ancestry”)6 (Fig. 1).
The origin of the Mycenaeans has been intensely debated. Various theories have been
proposed to respond to the question of if, when and in what circumstances Greek speakers or
their linguistic ancestors, speaking a language that later developed into Greek, entered the
Aegean. One theory attributes the origin of Greek speakers to the Balkans, from which waves
of Indo-European speakers flowed into the north of Greece during the Bronze Age. These
people came from the Eurasian steppe north of the Black and Caspian seas, [9] and they are
referred to as the Proto Indo-Europeans. These migrants, together with the local population
they encountered, then combined to form the ancestors of the Mycenaeans and later Greek
speakers. [10-12] One problem with this theory is that the material culture relationship of
Bronze Age populations of the Aegean with populations far to the north is very tenuous. [11-12]
Another theory traces the origin of the Proto-Greeks further back in time, to approximately
3000 BCE at the start of the Early Bronze Age. [13] It proposes that as migrants, they filled a
largely depopulated landscape.
An additional hypothesis for the origin of the Greeks goes even further back to the seventh
millennium BCE and is associated with the view that the Greeks are descended from the first
farmers who migrated into Europe from Anatolia. Alternatively, a very late origin of
Mycenaean elites, associated with chariot riding warriors from the Caucasus in approximately
1600 BCE and characterised by those buried in the Shaft Graves at Mycenae, has also been proposed. [14]
This thread has been viewed 18817 times.