2D4D digit ratio of European nations, gender equality and appearance.

[Dov]

According to this research, Western European women have a smaller 2D4D ratio compared to Eastern European women, as well as South European women. This indicates their greater prenatal testosterone and less estrogen.


The longer the index finger - the more prenatal estrogen, the longer the ring finger - more prenatal testosterone. A characteristic feature for almost all mammals, including mice.


France M.984 F.990
Ireland .982 .991
Norway .981 .991
Britain .985 .993

Poland M.984 F1
Czechia .984 1
Croatia .980 .998
Hungary .986 1

Also found a correlation 2D4D with the representation of seats in parliament and gender equality in general:

We interpret the link between low res2D:4D and high female parliamentary representation and labor force participation as follows. At an individual level, it has been shown in the BBC study that low 2D:4D is associated with high dominance scores (Manning and Fink, 2008). The correlation was stronger for women than men and for the right rather than left hand. We suggest that nations with low female 2D:4D and low female 2D:4D in comparison to male 2D:4D also have women with high mean dominance scores in relation to those of men. Dominant behavior may well be useful in gaining parliamentary selection and in entering male dominated workplaces. With regard to the latter, it has been reported that women in professions with high percentages of men tend to have low right 2D:4D (Manning et al., 2010).

In conclusion, we show that national means for female 2D:4D, independent of male 2D:4D, tend to be negatively correlated with rates of female parliamentary representation and female workforce participation. The effect was greatest for the right hand. That is, in nations in which women tend to have high prenatal testosterone and low prenatal estrogen in comparison to men, there is a tendency for greater gender equality with regard to parliamentary representation and labor force participation. We suggest that in this instance, the tendency for increases in gender equality is associated with prenatal testosterone-related dominance in women.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/147470491401200406

It is noteworthy that women with high ratio 2D4D tend to worse than men to solve spatial orientation tests and also, for example, to manipulate the bucket of a hydraulic excavator, where a good perception of 3D space is needed. While women on average experience great empathy for other people, as well as better social interaction.

Perhaps this is just related to the ancient features of the societies of the Celts and Germanics, of which I have already written. Probably, the warlike IE societies of Celts and Germanics led the selection to more masculinized women (there may be a cause and effect on the contrary, but this is doubtful):

Dowry offers not a wife to her husband, but a husband to his wife. At the same time, her relatives and relatives are present and inspect his gifts; and it is unacceptable that these gifts consist of women's ornaments and bridal gowns, but then there must be bulls, a bridled horse and shield with a spear and a sword. For these gifts, he gets a wife, and she in return gives her husband some weapon; in their eyes these are the most enduring bonds, these are sacred ordinances, these are the gods of marriage. And that a woman does not consider herself uncommitted to the thoughts of valorous exploits, not involved in the vicissitudes of wars, all that marks her marriage, recalls that from now on she is called upon to share the labors and dangers of her husband both in peacetime and in the battle, to undergo that and dare to do as he does; this announces to her the harness of the bulls, this is the horse at the ready, this is the weapon handed to it. So it is fitting to live, it is so fitting to perish; she gets what she intends to give to her sons, in integrity and safety, what her daughters-in-law will receive later, and what will in turn be given to her grandchildren
Tacitus (Germ. 18)

Celts women enjoyed many civil rights, and actively participated in all men's affairs, even in war. An example of such a warrior is the powerful and cruel Queen Medb. And Only in 697, at the insistence of the abbot Adamnan, a law was passed that freed women from military service.

Although the cause of course may be in general in something else.

At the same time, this study probably explains the frequent subjective opinion that Eastern European women (Slavs) with less prenatal testosterone have tend to softer feminine features (so called baby face), while Western European women (Celto-Germanics) are more robust:

Our results show a clear association between the second-to-fourth digit ratio and facial shape in boys as young as 4–11 years old. The observed shape pattern mirrors previous results for adult men
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/279/1737/2457

 

[Dov]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

Low digit ratio (more testosterone):
-Increased reproductive success in males
-Aggression
-Asperger syndrome and other autism spectrum disorders
-In an orchestral context, rank and musical ability in males
-Mathematical ability
-Attenuated socio-affective skills
-Increased aggressive behavior in sports
-Leadership

============================

High digit ratio (more estrhogen):
-Increased reproductive success in female
-Paranormal and superstitious beliefs among men with a higher digit ratio
-Higher verbal fluency in both sexes
-Higher visual recall in females
-Higher literacy (compared to numeracy) in children
-Good smell, color, tactile perception

It is also interesting that newborn boys react more to objects in general, and girls to surrounding faces. Also there is opinion girls start speak earlier than boys. Probably It is because of the more developed verbal brain zone due prenatal estroghen.

 

[Angela]

More pseudo-science from Dov, the King of Pseudo-Science.

Oh, and my ring and index fingers are of equal length, I've always had very high levels of estrogen, I'm extremely verbal, yes, I'm very compassionate, not aggressive at all, certainly not physically, but I'm also numerate, logical, and I don't let anyone intimidate me.

People are much more complicated than you think.

Oh, and my face shape is most like .929.

 

[Dov]

Your reasoning is simply intuitive, irrelevant, and has nothing to do with scientific methodology. As however and always.

Especially the fingers of the same length mean high prenatal estrogen. Heh.
Also prenatal estrogen = / = normal estrogen in adulthood.
Just read more.

 

[Angela]

Your reasoning is simply intuitive, irrelevant, and has nothing to do with scientific methodology. As however and always.

Especially the fingers of the same length mean high prenatal estrogen. Heh.
Also prenatal estrogen = / = normal estrogen in adulthood.
Just read more.

Yes, but it's not supposed to mean highly numerate, logical and quite good at spatial relationships, thank you. Oh, and as I said, nobody's pushover.

Journals are full of poorly done, social science like papers that can't be replicated with rigorous scientific methods. As always you have no idea what your'e talking about...

This is the methodology:

"Participants were recruited from an internet study—hosted by the BBC Science and Nature websites—that included questions about demographics, personality, social attitudes, and behavior, along with cognitive tests and self-measurement of physical characteristics such as 2D and 4D length."

Please.

I'm expecting a thread on phrenology next.

My suggestion, people: ignore.

 

[davef]

My ring finger is much longer than my index fwiw.

Sweet!

 

[Dov]

Yes, but it's not supposed to mean highly numerate, logical and quite good at spatial relationships, thank you. Oh, and as I said, nobody's pushover.

This implies a tendency to have certain abilities. Boys and girls are not identical from birth, sex is not a social construct.

There are also men with a level of empathy stronger than about most women, but otherwise he is an ordinary man with low digit ratio. There are women with a strong 3D spatical. But science in this case studies the common trend, and not individual exclusion.

 

[davef]

Does the difference in length between the ring and the index matter besides the ring simply being longer? Like if Person A's ring is an inch longer than his index and Person B's ring is only half an inch longer, can we assume Person A produces more testosterone?

 

[Dov]

Does the difference in length between the ring and the index matter besides the ring simply being longer? Like if Person A's ring is an inch longer than his index and Person B's ring is only half an inch longer, can we assume Person A produces more testosterone?

As I understand it, only the ratio is considered.
This ratio is equal to the correlate with the ratio of hormones that are found in amniotic fluid.
Also:
In male fetuses, the concentration of testosterone reaches its peak at the end of the first trimester of pregnancy - about 150 ng / ml (5.2 nmol / L, which is half the normal range in adult men), and then gradually decreases from about 60 to 70 percent .

In female fetuses, serum testosterone concentration is low (about 50 ng / dl [1.7 nmol / l]) and for the most part of pregnancy tends to decrease. The source of testosterone, most likely, are the ovaries of the fetus; gonadotropin can stimulate the production of androgens in the ovaries of the fetus, which later transform into estrogens.

Because of the increased amount of prenatal testosterone, an ring finger grows as well. And also brain zone is responsible for the spatial imagination and development of the cardiovascular system.
It is also has no direct relationship to the production of adult testosterone. Although correlated.