German Parenting Magazine warns of "Nazi Families"

Angela,

not everyone is breathlessly waiting to read about some reservoir of WHG. I posited it existed more than two years ago and that the steppe people picked up their genes in their move into central Europe. I also proposed maybe they were even R1b.

Can you link that post?

Ashkenazim have a much more heterogeneous genome than do Poles or eastern Europeans in general. They have more variation in terms of "appearance". The genomes of all Europeans are not equally homogeneous. Southern Europeans are more heterogeneous than northern Europeans and certainly than Slavs. They also have more variation in "appearance".

I'm not really convinced, so far you just have not posted enough sources to support these claims.

How is heterogeneity of a genome being measured? How do you measure variation of appearance?

You linked one source about heterogeneity of Ashkenazim, but nothing about Slavs for comparison. I was trying to find some publications estimating the effective population size of ancestors of Slavs at the beginning of the Migration Period, but I could not find anything.

When comparing variation in appearance, did you include only 100% Jews, or also mixed people?

It is not a secret that in the USA a lot of Jewish-American people are only partially Jewish today.

It seems like you're getting your pictures and point of view from Julius Streicher.

Or maybe you are getting your "Slavic appearance" thing from "Der Untermensch", Berlin 1942 ???

Also I suspect that you might be thinking about Uralic appearance and calling it "Slavic" by mistake.

By all means focus on a throw away sentence about yDna (which your response did not rebut, btw)

Yes, Jews have more heterogeneous Y-DNA. But they have less heterogeneous mtDNA.

40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA comes from just 4 women (K1a1b1a1, N1b2, K1a9 and K2a2a1).
 
Say what you want about Europe, but Post-Apocalyptic racist Nazis dressed like border militia can be found only in North America so far. They opened fire to illegal Mexicans crossing the zombified border. Men, women and children. Disgusting. Not to mention that producers of this show are plotline Nazis, some scenes and dialogues were just painfully stupid. Waiting for 23 October, maybe there will be more allusions to Trump's immigration policies, or maybe walkers will start talking: "we are all fine, we just had a really bad case of pneumonia"? :)
 
Did you read who published that article on Ashkenazim? It's Shai Carmi's 'The Ashkenazi Gene Consortium' at Hebrew University. It's also common knowledge whether you're aware of it or not. If you don't believe me or them, google it. Gene heterogeneity means exactly what it says. Let's take an easy example. For trait X, you have two alleles, yes? One from your maternal line, and one from your paternal line. In the case of Poland, in a lot of cases the alleles will be the same. In Ashkenazim, one might be from the Middle East, and one from Poland, for example.

As far as the effective population size for Slavic expansion, I only remember this:

"One of the striking patterns we see is the relatively high level of sharing of IBD between pairs of individuals across eastern Europe, as high or higher than that observed within other, much smaller populations. This is consistent with these individuals having a comparatively large proportion of ancestry drawn from a relatively small population that expanded over a large geographic area. The “smooth” estimates of Figure 4 (and more generally Figures 5 and S17) suggest that this increase in ancestry stems from around 1,000–2,000 ya, since during this time pairs of eastern individuals are expected to share a substantial number of common ancestors, while this is only true of pairs of non-eastern individuals if they are from the same population. For example, even individuals from widely separated eastern populations share about the same amount of IBD as do two Irish individuals (see Figure S3), suggesting that this ancestral population may have been relatively small.
This evidence is consistent with the idea that these populations derive a substantial proportion of their ancestry from various groups that expanded during the “migration period” from the fourth through ninth centuries [51]. This period begins with the Huns moving into eastern Europe towards the end of the fourth century, establishing an empire including modern-day Hungary and Romania, and continues in the fifth century as various Germanic groups moved into and ruled much of the western Roman empire. This was followed by the expansion of the Slavic populations into regions of low population density beginning in the sixth century, reaching their maximum by the 10th century [52]. The eastern populations with high rates of IBD are highly coincident with the modern distribution of Slavic languages, so it is natural to speculate that much of the higher rates were due to this expansion."

See: Ralph and Coop et al
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555


Yes, there are increasing numbers of half-Ashkenazi. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of full Ashkenazi people around. I think it's an example of unmitigated gall to think you know what they look like when I doubt you've ever met one in your life, much less been around groups of them. My husband's partner is Ashkenazi and his family has become like our own family. Many of our colleagues are Ashkenazi as well. I've gone to as many Jewish weddings and bar and bat mitzvahs as I have Christian weddings and baptisms and communions. While sitting in the upper sitting area of the shul I've seen girls who look totally Slavic, others who look German, others sort of Italian, and some absolutely Middle Eastern. My best friend, more than a sister to me, lost too early and tragically to breast cancer was Ashkenazi. Her daughters are like my daughters. Through her I know dozens of Ashkenazi families. You have no idea what you're talking about.

As for Slavs, no, I don't think they all look Uralic. Both when I moved here and now I lived/live close to where Polish people moved when they came from Europe. I even told you once that many of the potato farms near me are still owned by Polish families. My favorite cousin in law is Polish, from a Polish farming family in Connecticut. Growing up, one of the closest Catholic churches was a St. Adalberts, where they still said a few masses a week in Polish. I'd occasionally go there with one of my friends. One of my friends now is from a small town on the Czechoslovakia/Poland border and has a lot of Polish ancestry. People often tell me we look like sisters; we don't...her face is flatter. It's the pigmentation and the long nose. I'm very familiar with eastern European looks, although not the more exotic "Russian" looks. There is absolutely not the extremes of appearance among Poles that there is among the Ashkenazi.

You just don't understand how it is here. We meet people from all sorts of ethnic groups. Not only do we learn to see patterns in appearance, if we're good at that, but we learn that they're people just like us. Do certain groups have certain "quirks"? Yes, they do actually, but the individual character, soul, if you will, is what's important. My parents taught me from earliest childhood to judge each person "fresh", as an individual, and to treat each person, no matter from what group, as I would like to be treated. That's it. I stand by it, and I would recommend it to you. When I read some of the garbage put out by these anti-Semitic groups in Europe threatening to kill them all over again and I think of my Ruth and her girls, or Joel and his family, I want to rip their heads off. All of you out there who subscribe to this crap are monsters, the real sub-humans.

No, I'm not going to spend hours looking for where I said there was a pool of WHG somewhere, perhaps in the north, which was added to the admixture in the early Bronze Age. Anyone who has read my posts knows I said it. You even indicated you were aware of it. Nor do I claim undue brilliance for that hypothesis, the way some others do. For goodness sakes, that extra WHG that shows up had to come from somewhere; there wasn't enough left in the unattractive lands in the west. Nor was I the only one to make that prediction. The only ones who vehemently denied it, to my recollection, are the usual suspects who try at every turn to enlarge the influence of the steppe people.
 
Interesting Angela. So it turns out that Slavs are relatively "pure" and genetically "homogeneous" ???

Nazi propaganda used to portray Slavs as mongrels, "mixture of races with unpronounceable names":

"It is a war of ideologies and a struggle of races. On one side stands National Socialism: ideology founded on the values of our Germanic, Nordic blood. It is worth the world as we want to see it: beautiful, orderly, socially fair, a world that maybe still suffers some flaws, but overall a happy, beautiful world filled with culture, which is precisely Germany. On the other side stands the 180 million people, a mixture of races and peoples, whose names are unpronounceable, and whose physical nature is such that the only thing we can do - is to shoot them without pity or mercy. (...) They have allied themselves with the Jews, and formed one ideology, Bolshevism, with the task of crushing Germany and the world. When you, my friends, are fighting in the East, you keep up that same fight against the same subhumans, the same inferior races that once appeared under the name of the Huns, and later - during the time of King Henry and Otto I, - under the name of the Hungarians, and later under the name of the Tatars, and then they came again under the name of Genghis Khan and of the Mongols. Today they are called Russians, under the political banner of Bolshevism."
- Heinrich Himmler's speech to soldiers of the SS (13 July 1941).

"The war against Russia is an important chapter in the German nation's struggle for existence. It is the old battle of Germanic against Slavic people, of the defence of European culture against Muscovite-Asiatic inundation, and of the repulsing of Jewish Bolshevism. The objective of this battle must be the demolition of Russia and must therefore be conducted with unprecedented severity. Every military action must be guided in planning and execution by an iron resolution to exterminate the enemy remorselessly and totally."
- General Erich Höpner of Panzergruppe 4

So in 1941 Slavs were too mixed to be left alone, and in 2016 we are too homogeneous to be left alone.

Then despised for mixing with Asian immigrants, now despised for refusing to mix with Asian immigrants.
 
Angela, Tomenable, I suggest a truce.

At least for a day.
I know, tomorrow you'll be quarreling again on some other thread.

;)
 
Bicicleur, they're talking about NAZIS in GERMANY, of course they're going to be predominantly blond! Do you think they let Turks in? I'm sure there's also a certain amount of self-selection going on.

I found a typical blond "Nazi":

 
I found a typical blond "Nazi":


Is this what passes for logic in your law school?

You find one black woman who espouses far right opinions and that's proof of what? If Poles, after the Nazis sent so many of them to concentration camps could turn around and adopt that ideology, any insanity is possible.

Meanwhile, make sure to find for me the Nazi groups in GERMANY who admit blacks, Turks etc.

You might also want to find someone who isn't lying through her teeth to proclaim your point of view. Were some of the women at those outdoor festivals in Europe subjected to unwanted touching, foul language, theft etc.? Yes, they were, and it's totally unacceptable. However, to my knowledge there was no wholesale rape of women and children. In fact, I don't recall reading about rapes at all, although perhaps a few occurred. Unfortunately, they happen at these kinds of events with or without refugees. This is propaganda a la Goebels. Take a regrettable event and exaggerate it hugely, then repeat over and over again. He used the same techniques before every German invasion. It's **** ****.

@Bicicleur,
Tomenable hasn't had enough, clearly.
 
they're talking about NAZIS in GERMANY, of course they're going to be predominantly blond!

Were there actually any blondes among the most important Nazis?:

5g14t5fU.jpg
220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-01888A,_Joseph_Goebbels.jpg


c41.jpg
 
Were there actually any blondes among the most important Nazis?:

5g14t5fU.jpg
220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-01888A,_Joseph_Goebbels.jpg


c41.jpg

I think you're being misled by old black and white photos. Most of them were undoubtedly very blonde as children and perhaps even into adolescence. In adulthood the hair can turn light brown or what we call here "dirty blonde". That's what happened to my father and some of my uncles. Plus, the pomade they all wore in their hair in those days darkened the hair the way that water would.

This is what I mean; this is Eichman when he was younger:
eichmann.jpg


Some still stayed pretty blonde even into adulthood.

Heydrich:
0EB7D7FA00000578-3782555-The_face_of_evil_Reinhard_Heydrich_who_died_in_1942_after_an_att-m-26_1473464850617.jpg


Ironically, there were rumors he had a Jewish grandparent. I believe it.

Ribbentrop:
vnrbntrp.jpg

Goering:
goering1.jpg


Alfred Rosenberg:
slide_302056_2551462_free.jpg


Amon Goethe of Schindler's List infamy.

oskar_schindler.jpg



Goebels and his family are below. That monster of a woman poisoned all those younger children so they wouldn't have to live in a Nazi less, Hitler less world. He wasn't blonde as an adult but you can see the genetics in the children.
Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1978-086-03,_Joseph_Goebbels_mit_Familie.jpg
 
That's why I prefer dogs. I don't want to be associated with Nazis.

Cats are sneaky, furry fascists...
 
Anyone who thinks that those men with more sexappeal, from the Elite and attributes of a warrior had the best chances to reproduce is being a little delusional. In fact if there is one thing I have learned.

in 70% of the case Warriors have the least children, cause their death rate is higher in young ages. Men with sexappeal do not run around begging for girls attention or holding them like sheeps. But those with inferiority complexes or genuinely bad prospects at getting girls the usually way, do. I remember sitting at the University with my Yemeni friend and another Yemeni who he introduced to me. We were talking about poilitics and the kind until it came to marriage. When it came to me and my Yemeni friend we both agreed the time of polygamy is rather over. While that guy who I can guarantee wouldn't get easily any girl tried to convince us about the benefits of polygamy, like a little horny brat he sounded.

What I have noticed for sure, withing a community, it is that the Elite most of the cases dies out while the common people or less wealthy people reporduces the most. The exception to this is Civil war or other kind of war. But there is not much signs of war in Central Europe during that period of time.

So there are many ways of how a lineage get's dominant. But certanly it is not because the carrier of this lineage was so charming, so strong and such an Elite all in one.
 
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Today's world is different than the world of the early Bronze Age, though, Alan.

In today's world it's usually money that gives men access to more than one "wife", yes? That money might be self made or it might be inherited. In neither case does it have to be tied to good looks, or being fit, or strong, or being "sexy". It seems rather the opposite most of the time. Didn't Osama bin Ladin's father have some ungodly number of children, some born when he was of very advanced age? If it's self-made I suppose it could be said the person has some "advantageous" genes, but if inherited, even that wouldn't necessarily apply. Then there are the odd cults around where religion and some sort of persuasive ability explains it.

Wasn't it quite different in the early Bronze Age, however? Didn't leadership more often stem, if not from attractiveness, at least from certain war-like abilities? Of course, such qualities aren't always inherited by the male offspring.

I just think it's about power. However men acquire it they often use it to get more access to women.
 
Wasn't it quite different in the early Bronze Age, however? Didn't leadership more often stem, if not from attractiveness, at least from certain war-like abilities? Of course, such qualities aren't always inherited by the male offspring.

I just think it's about power. However men acquire it they often use it to get more access to women.

Wasn't childlessness remarkably common among Roman emperors? They certainly had the privilege of free choice.

Not the Bronze Age of course. Probably the most warlike men to ever live, however.
 
Today's world is different than the world of the early Bronze Age, though, Alan.

In today's world it's usually money that gives men access to more than one "wife", yes? That money might be self made or it might be inherited. In neither case does it have to be tied to good looks, or being fit, or strong, or being "sexy". It seems rather the opposite most of the time. Didn't Osama bin Ladin's father have some ungodly number of children, some born when he was of very advanced age? If it's self-made I suppose it could be said the person has some "advantageous" genes, but if inherited, even that wouldn't necessarily apply. Then there are the odd cults around where religion and some sort of persuasive ability explains it.

Wasn't it quite different in the early Bronze Age, however? Didn't leadership more often stem, if not from attractiveness, at least from certain war-like abilities? Of course, such qualities aren't always inherited by the male offspring.

I just think it's about power. However men acquire it they often use it to get more access to women.

there may have been a time when he-man were more likely to be men with status or vice versa

it is, I think a difference between Romans and Greeks

the Greeks still glorified the athlete, at least in their artwork

the proud Celts had the same mentality (if they were not to drunk)

Roman men with power had themselves surrounded by their own private milicia on whom they depended to defend themselves, and sometimes even slaves to carry them
 
there may have been a time when he-man were more likely to be men with status or vice versa

it is, I think a difference between Romans and Greeks

the Greeks still glorified the athlete, at least in their artwork

the proud Celts had the same mentality (if they were not to drunk)

Roman men with power had themselves surrounded by their own private milicia on whom they depended to defend themselves, and sometimes even slaves to carry them

Please do me a favor and read some university level books on the Romans. In everything including warfare it matters very much whether you're talking about the Republic, the early Empire, the later Empire etc.

Honestly, I don't get how someone who is very thoughtful and well informed on certain subjects like the Paleolithic and Mesolithic can be so uninformed and myopic about this topic.
 

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