Politics Are American politicians ruining their country?

[Jovialis]

I was in Osaka, and we met an ex-pat from the USA who was our guide. He moved there over 28 years ago, and the things he's heard about the USA blows his mind. He said he is much happier living in Japan, and has zero desire to move back. Frankly, I am dreading going back to the US. Going abroad to a place that actually functions and is populated with people that actually love their country makes me pretty down on the USA. It was a different country when I was growing up. Now it is a pile of garbage. I hate what this country has become. It is quasi-3rd world.

 

[Riverman]

I was in Osaka, and we met an ex-pat from the USA who was our guide. He moved there over 28 years ago, and the things he's heard about the USA blows his mind. He said he is much happier living in Japan, and has zero desire to move back. Frankly, I am dreading going back to the US. Going abroad to a place that actually functions and is populated with people that actually love their country makes me pretty down on the USA. It was a different country when I was growing up. Now it is a pile of garbage. I hate what this country has become. It is quasi-3rd world.

The worst part is not what the US establishment does to its own country, but that they force other states and nations to go down the same road or an even worse one. Other countries governments being forced by this external pressure to comply, yet it is all about the Americans and what they allow their own government, institutions and corporations do to them and the world. Every crap from over the ocean gets washed up on our European shores eventually. Its just a matter of time.
Even the Japanese and Koreans will get their dose, eventually.

 

[Jovialis]

The worst part is not what the US establishment does to its own country, but that they force other states and nations to go down the same road or an even worse one. Other countries governments being forced by this external pressure to comply, yet it is all about the Americans and what they allow their own government, institutions and corporations do to them and the world. Every crap from over the ocean gets washed up on our European shores eventually. Its just a matter of time.
Even the Japanese and Koreans will get their dose, eventually.

Not all Americans, it is liberals, neoconservatives, and racist ethno-nationalist minority groups. There's also the professional class that cowtows to them, because they're afraid of controversy, because it will damage their bottom line.

 

[Jovialis]

The USA still has the biggest and most affective right wing, more so than Europe which is essentially a lost cause.

 

[Jovialis]

The USA still has the biggest and most affective right wing, more so than Europe which is essentially a lost cause.

Please remember over 74 million Americans voted for Donald Trump in 2020. That is bigger than whole countries of Europe.

 

[Riverman]

I'm not talking about American citizens, but the current establishment. You might say that Europeans are "Liberal" for American standards, but consider this: They were different leftists in the past and most of the identity politics and newest re-education wouldn't have started in Europe, if being left alone. It came all from over the Atlantic to us and was just copied by the European establishment, like they almost always do. Without the American state, media and corporate support, it would have never reached the same level and effect in Europe. Also in the international institutions (read UNO, WHO, WTO etc.) the American representatives and influence are just overwhelming.

 

[Jovialis]

I'm not talking about American citizens, but the current establishment. You might say that Europeans are "Liberal" for American standards, but consider this: They were different leftists in the past and most of the identity politics and newest re-education wouldn't have started in Europe, if being left alone. It came all from over the Atlantic to us and was just copied by the European establishment, like they almost always do. Without the American state, media and corporate support, it would have never reached the same level and effect in Europe. Also in the international institutions (read UNO, WHO, WTO etc.) the American representatives and influence are just overwhelming.

It started in the Wiemer Republic, in the Frankfurt School. Cultural Marxism is the original incarnation of the manufacturered woke phenomenon. Honestly, most of this stuff seemingly happened overnight, as it was ramped up by capitalism.

But you do have a point about leftists being different in the past. There was a lot of purges in the USSR for example. I'm sure a lot of these cultural Marxist may have been killed. Castro for example sent homosexuals to a concentration camp. Stalin also criminalized homosexuality in the USSR.

Cultural Marxism cannot exist in countries that persecute homosexuals. It snuffs it right out of the box. It took hold in the USA, because cultural Marxists exploited tolerance.

 

[Jovialis]

Persecution of homosexuality essentially functioned as a check against Cultural Marxism, in Communist countries. I don't think they intentionally thought of it that way, but that was the affect.

Prompt: Did the communists persecute homosexuals?

ChatGPT:
The treatment of homosexuality under communist regimes has varied greatly over time and from country to country. Here are a few examples:

1. Soviet Union: In the early years after the 1917 revolution, the Soviet Union decriminalized homosexuality. However, under Joseph Stalin's rule, homosexuality was recriminalized in 1933, and it remained a criminal offense until 1993. Homosexuals were often persecuted, sent to prison, or subjected to forced labor.

2. China: Homosexuality was considered a mental illness and a crime in the People's Republic of China until 1997 and 2001, respectively. During the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976), homosexuals were persecuted and subjected to "re-education."

3. Cuba: After the 1959 revolution, homosexuals were often persecuted and sent to labor camps. However, in recent years, the Cuban government has made efforts to improve LGBTQ+ rights, and same-sex marriage is currently being considered.

4. East Germany: The German Democratic Republic decriminalized homosexuality earlier than its capitalist counterpart, West Germany. However, societal attitudes remained largely negative, and discrimination was common.
It's important to note that these examples do not represent all communist regimes, and attitudes towards homosexuality can change over time. Additionally, the persecution of homosexuals is not unique to communist regimes and has occurred in various forms across different political systems and cultures.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Please remember over 74 million Americans voted for Donald Trump in 2020. That is bigger than whole countries of Europe.

I believe America is governed with more common sense then Europe.
However the most loyal voters of Trump, who truly believe all the stories Trump tells them lack common sense.

Democracy is claimed to be the least harmful system, however it gives a lot of power to the stupid.

 

[Jovialis]

Totally agree, I wish a more serious candidate could be in place of Donald Trump as the front-runner. He will always disappoint his followers, because he will just do and say what ever is most expedient, despite the so-called "nationalist" persona. He is not a true American nationalist, and cares little to facilitate his agenda. He surrounded himself with flatterers, because vanity is his weakness. He seeks in people loyal to Trump, rather than to the platform he ran on.

 

[Maciamo]

Not all Americans, it is liberals, neoconservatives, and racist ethno-nationalist minority groups. There's also the professional class that cowtows to them, because they're afraid of controversy, because it will damage their bottom line.

I am not sure how that translate in political terms. Liberals are Democrats. Neoconservatives and racist ethno-nationalist are Republicans. So who are those Americans who don't allow their government damage them in the eyes of the world? And who are they voting for? Independents?

It's always fascinated me how the USA, the most populous Western country (340 million inhabitants), only has two political parties that have any chance of electing a president, forming a government, or do anything meaningful in the country. Most European countries have between 5 and 15 political parties that represent the wide spectrum of political believes in a modern society. In the US it's like people see things in black or white. No wonder the country is so polarised politically and there is hardly any chance of reconciliation between Democrats and Republicans now. Contrast this with Belgium, a country of just 11 million people, where there are 5 major Dutch-speaking parties and 4 major French-speaking parties. Usually you need an alliance of 4 or 6 parties to form a government. It really forces politicians to sit around the table, discuss with an open mind, listen carefully to what the others have to say, and find compromises that make everyone (at least partially) happy.

Wikipedia has a page on political parties by country. The second column shows the party system:

- One-party system : essentially Communist regimes like China, North Korea and Cuba
- Dominant-party system : mostly dictatorships and authoritarian regimes like Russia, Belarus, Iran, Egypt, Congo, Angola, Bangladesh, Nicaragua... but interestingly also Japan.
- Two-party system : mostly tiny island countries in the Caribbean and the Pacific which are too small to have more parties and the USA.
- Multi-party system : most democracies.

 

[Maciamo]

Please remember over 74 million Americans voted for Donald Trump in 2020. That is bigger than whole countries of Europe.

That is bigger than any country in Europe except Germany (83 million), and bigger than the electorate of any other Western country.

 

[Jovialis]

I am not sure how that translate in political terms. Liberals are Democrats. Neoconservatives and racist ethno-nationalist are Republicans. So who are those Americans who don't allow their government damage them in the eyes of the world? And who are they voting for? Independents?

It's always fascinated me how the USA, the most populous Western country (340 million inhabitants), only has two political parties that have any chance of electing a president, forming a government, or do anything meaningful in the country. Most European countries have between 5 and 15 political parties that represent the wide spectrum of political believes in a modern society. In the US it's like people see things in black or white. No wonder the country is so polarised politically and there is hardly any chance of reconciliation between Democrats and Republicans now. Contrast this with Belgium, a country of just 11 million people, where there are 5 major Dutch-speaking parties and 4 major French-speaking parties. Usually you need an alliance of 4 or 6 parties to form a government. It really forces politicians to sit around the table, discuss with an open mind, listen carefully to what the others have to say, and find compromises that make everyone (at least partially) happy.

Wikipedia has a page on political parties by country. The second column shows the party system:

- One-party system : essentially Communist regimes like China, North Korea and Cuba
- Dominant-party system : mostly dictatorships and authoritarian regimes like Russia, Belarus, Iran, Egypt, Congo, Angola, Bangladesh, Nicaragua... but interestingly also Japan.
- Two-party system : mostly tiny island countries in the Caribbean and the Pacific which are too small to have more parties and the USA.
- Multi-party system : most democracies.

The two-party system makes it so almost nobody is happy in the end, except the people who can donate enough money to get the party to do and say what they want. Nevertheless, the USA is a de facto two-party system, since there are other parties that are allowed to compete. They just don't have a realistic chance of winning, or at best/worst be a spoiler (i.e. Ralph Nadar, Ross Peroit).

Nevertheless, it functioned a lot better before big money was allowed to be funneled into the election with the Citizen United ruling.

And/or perhaps the bigger a country becomes in size and scale, the more authoritarian is tends to become to keep order. Therefore, now we have Democrats calling for big tech companies to tighten controls on speech online, and actively working with the government to censor people.

I did a search, and here's an example of a left-leaning paper arguing that free speech hurts the public. This person should move to the People's Republic of China, he has no business in the USA:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-an...attle-between-social-media-and-the-government

 

[Jovialis]

The two-party system makes it so almost nobody is happy in the end, except the people who can donate enough money to get the party to do and say what they want. Nevertheless, the USA is a de facto two-party system, since there are other parties that are allowed to compete. They just don't have a realistic chance of winning, or at best/worst be a spoiler (i.e. Ralph Nadar, Ross Peroit).

Nevertheless, it functioned a lot better before big money was allowed to be funneled into the election with the Citizen United ruling.

And/or perhaps the bigger a country becomes in size and scale, the more authoritarian is tends to become to keep order. Therefore, now we have Democrats calling for big tech companies to tighten controls on speech online, and actively working with the government to censor people.

I did a search, and here's an example of a left-leaning paper arguing that free speech hurts the public. This person should move to the People's Republic of China, he has no business in the USA:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-an...attle-between-social-media-and-the-government

There was a recent ruling that stopped the government from instructing big tech on who they should censor. Good.

Judge puts sweeping limits on government contact with social media

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-limits-government-contact-with-social-media/

You could barely even find information on this ruling... and the only kind I found was in opposition to it. That should scare people.

 

[Maciamo]

And/or perhaps the bigger a country becomes in size and scale, the more authoritarian is tends to become to keep order.

That's probably true. It already happened with the Roman state, which had to give up the representative democracy of the Republic for the more authoritarian Empire once the country had become too big.

That's also why China has always had authoritarian regimes since the time of the first emperor 2240 years ago and has little chance of becoming a democracy any time soon.

On the other hand India managed to establish a democracy with over 1 billion people. However that system was set up as an idealistic state upon independence from (democratic) Britain and India is a remarkably peaceful country for its size. But even there it looks like the trend is towards more authoritarianism since Modi came to power.

 

[Jovialis]

The Biden administration is in contempt of the Supreme Court and disrespects the law. He rules by fiat, and violates the checks and balances that have kept this country together.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...upreme-courts-decision-on-affirmative-action/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/29/joe-biden-supreme-court-affirmative-action-00104215

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/30/1176839127/supreme-court-student-loan-forgiveness-decision

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/19/bid...lion-in-student-debt-heres-who-qualifies.html

Nevertheless, he and people like him will one day face a reckoning through lawfare, just like his predecessor Trump. Maybe he is banking on the fact that he may die soon, or will be too mentally incompetent to take the stand due to cerebral atrophy.

 

[Jovialis]

An example of the cross-section between Far-left wing ideals and capitalist greed (i.e. Woke capitalism), which is an example of the social issues in the US:

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/05/what-america-has-got-wrong-about-gender-medicine

My wife subscribes to the economist, this was a good article by them back in April of this year.

Gender affirming surgery for minors will be the new and more horrific version of the opioid epidemic. These doctors are unscrupulous monsters destroying the life of children. We already know some are capable being similar to drug dealers if left unchecked. The parents of these children are delusion abhorrent abusers who should be put in prison as well.

In the end, I hold people like Biden responsible for the rhetoric that facilitated this mass atrocity.

However, I don't know what "consensus" the article is speaking of, because most Americans oppose this:

A Washington Post-KFF poll found that 68 percent of adults oppose access to puberty-blocking medication for transgender children ages 10-14 and 58 percent oppose access to hormonal treatments for transgender kids ages 15 to 17.


More than 60 percent said transgender women and girls should not be allowed to compete with other women and girls in youth, high school, college and professional sports.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...ors-trans-women-participating-in-sports-poll/

Even this seems too high, I don't know anyone who would support this. Frankly speaking, most left-leaning people seem oblivious to these horrors, and chalk it up to a "right wing conspiracy" to disarm the argument. That's just idiotic, because it is in fact a reality. Politics is more like a religion nowadays, than a reflection of reality.

Sometimes I wonder if politicians are intentionally trying to lower the average IQ of the country to around 80, just so they have an easier population to manage.

Sure they may be more violent, but the elites are beyond their reach. (at least until a situation like Pelosi's husband happens) The country has become garbage, because the majority of the people are becoming garbage.

 

[Jovialis]

The greatest existential threat to the United States is the enemy-underclass that literally, physically destroys the country from within. From the degeneration of neighborhoods, and values, to the riots, destruction, random violence, murders, and lootings.

 

[Jovialis]

The greatest existential threat to the United States is the enemy-underclass that literally, physically destroys the country from within. From the degeneration of neighborhoods, and values, to the riots, destruction, random violence, murders, and lootings.

For this, I do not mean the hard working and under-paid people, but rather the lazy and stupid people that forgo work in favor of handouts and/or a life of crime.

 

[American]

It's hilarious to see woke progressives in this country praising Europe and ingratiatingly disparaging their own country in favor of West European ones, completely ignorant of the fact that "gender-affirming care" for minors, ethnic (and now religious) riots, and sectarian identitarianism are extremely unpopular in Europe. In fact, Europeans seem to view these right alongside gun culture, ultraprocessed foods, and lack of education as unfavorable American attributes, and resent the woke epidemic as more American infiltration. European leftists are especially duplicitous when they make the usual trite points about the US vs. Europe ("In Europe we have healthcare/commonsense gun laws/better education/healthier food/better infrastructure etc. etc. etc.") while neglecting facts inconvenient for progressives like the evidence-based rejection of puberty blockers for kids.