Religion Are North Americans more reactionary towards religion?

[Mycernius]

Are North Americans (Canadians and Americans) more reactionary towards religious attitudes than Europeans?
The reason I ask this question comes from personal experience. I am a non-believer in God. When I tell this to most people in Europe I don't get much reaction above 'okay, I'm cool with that. When I have told a North American I get 'What, no way?'. I told my cousins husband I was a non-beliver (He is Canadian) he couldn't grasp the idea and started to refer to me as the devil worshipper. I had to point out that I don't believe in the devil either. He is a Catholic, but I have had the same reaction off North Americans regardless of their belief. I have met Polish poeple, and that is a very religious country, and told them and I have never had that reaction. The same with other Brits, Maltese, Irish etc. The only ones that do react in a similar way are JWs, but then they try to convert you. Shed any light anyone?

 

[Brooker]

We're just confrontational and like to argue. I believe in a God, but I don't believe in religion, so I don't really call it "God". Many people can't make a distinction there.

 

[Maciamo]

We're just confrontational and like to argue. I believe in a God, but I don't believe in religion, so I don't really call it "God". Many people can't make a distinction there.

No I think Mycernius is pointing one of fundamental differences between the average Americans and Europeans. Whereas it is perfectly acceptable for anyone in Europe to say that they are atheists or don't care about religion, and European politicians are expected not to talk religion in politics, in the States, there seem to be a strong stigma toward atheists or "god-bashers". So much that the US president is allowed to say things like "Atheists are not patriots and should not even be considered as citizens". In contrast, France wants to ban any signs of religiousness (of any religion) in all public places (not just public schools). A majority of the Americans approved what Bush said (he was re-elected), and a majority of French people approved the government's ban (only a non-native Muslim minority complained). That says it all about what's politically correct in the USA and what is in Europe; the extreme opposite.

 

[Ma Cherie]

I am someone who believes in God. Sometimes I even read the Bible just for some of the stories, and I'm thinking about reading the Koran, only because I'm curious about Islam. But I would have to say, I met people who were athiests and I respect them as people. They're allowed to have these beliefs. And I didn't approve of what Bush said, if anything I'm more angry at the fact that he basically flaunts around the idea the God said he should be president. But above all, I would say that quite a few North Americans believe in God, but I don't think that we're overly religious. (At least I hope not).

 

[Bob in Iowa]

So much that the US president is allowed to say things like "Atheists are not patriots and should not even be considered as citizens".

As a point of clarification, that was said not by gee dubya, but by his dad, Geo HW Bush in the summer of 1987 when he was the incumbent vice president. Put into historical perspective, Geo HW was, at that time, beginning to square off with Pat Robertson, who was also in the race to become the Republican candidate for the 1988 presidential election. Robertson was making tremendous gains in support in Iowa in the months leading up to the Iowa caucuses, and it really took everyone by surprise, especially George HW. As we all know, Pat didn't win the nomination, but the party sat up and took notice of a strong voice within their constituency. That time in our history was the beginning of fundamentalist christians gaining a hand on the helm of the Republican party of today, and it just keeps getting scarier and so do the candidates.

 

[Sensuikan San]

I'm a "Brit". I live in Canada. I have travelled extensively in Canada and the U.S. over a period of thirty years. I am also an atheist ... but have no objection to any religion - unless someone tries to indoctrinate me ... !

I think it totally depends on where you are in the U.S. or Canada !

I doubt very strongly that you would find New York, Toronto, L.A. , Chicago or Vancouver much different from Europe in their attitude. On the other hand ... in smaller or tighter communities like Red Deer, Saskatooon, Des Moines, Little Rock .... or anywhere in the "Deep South" - the argument may well hold sway !

... but is it not the same in Europe to some extent ? Does the typical small Italian, Spanish or German village really foster or encourage the same point of view as London, Paris, Frankfurt or Rome?

Perhaps we should all take that very old advice to travellers .... "Never discuss politics or religion in a taxi..."!

 

[Sensuikan San]

....I just realized ...

Bob from Iowa is gonna hate me for including Des Moines in my list of "smaller or tighter communities".... !

Deepest apologies, Bob ! :bluush:

 

[Doc]

I am someone who believes in God. Sometimes I even read the Bible just for some of the stories, and I'm thinking about reading the Koran, only because I'm curious about Islam. But I would have to say, I met people who were athiests and I respect them as people. They're allowed to have these beliefs. And I didn't approve of what Bush said, if anything I'm more angry at the fact that he basically flaunts around the idea the God said he should be president. But above all, I would say that quite a few North Americans believe in God, but I don't think that we're overly religious. (At least I hope not).

Come to Franklin County, Missouri and visit any of the towns there. Annouce that you're an atheist, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Shinto, etc, and you will be chased out. I'm not kidding here. One town about 10 miles away from where I live, is prodominant with the KKK. There have been people killed over their religion here. That's why I'm glad I go to the college that I do. If you're a fundamentalist in Christianity, get the hell out because the school is packing guns too (metaphorically speaking).

Doc:ramen:

 

[Ma Cherie]

I won't step foot in Franklin County, then. Sounds like another town with closed minded people to me.

 

[Doc]

I won't step foot in Franklin County, then. Sounds like another town with closed minded people to me.

The whole county is bad. St. Clair, Union, Washington, Burbon, Sullivan, Pacific, etc. All of the towns are closed minded. St. Clair is by far the worst (I'm stuck here in this hellhole for a while). The Catholic and the Baptists are always at each other's throats. Luckly I was raised Epsicapalian. :relief: Everybody who went to my old chruch, conservative or not was very open minded. I wish everybody here was like that. My best friend was part of the Christian Fellowship Church, before tuning them out. He's still religious, but he's open minded now. As he said, "Being forced to have the Bible shoved down your throat for eighteen years straight can desensitize a person pretty quickly in organized religion. That's why I believe in my own religion." Boy do I agree with him!

Doc:ramen:

 

[Maciamo]

I am someone who believes in God. Sometimes I even read the Bible just for some of the stories, and I'm thinking about reading the Koran, only because I'm curious about Islam.

I expect that from most Americans, but would find it utterly strange for a European.

But above all, I would say that quite a few North Americans believe in God, but I don't think that we're overly religious. (At least I hope not).

Have you seen this survey of the BBC ? It says that about 55% of Americans regularily attend religious services (against 21% in the UK and 7% in Russia), and 70% of Americans would die for their religion !! (against 19% of Britons). In my experience the 20% or so of very religious Britons are mostly people over 50 year old. Among young people, I'd say less than 5%.

 

[Maciamo]

I think it totally depends on where you are in the U.S. or Canada !

I doubt very strongly that you would find New York, Toronto, L.A. , Chicago or Vancouver much different from Europe in their attitude. On the other hand ... in smaller or tighter communities like Red Deer, Saskatooon, Des Moines, Little Rock .... or anywhere in the "Deep South" - the argument may well hold sway !

Agreed that big US cities are more cosmopolitan, pluri-religious and open to a variety of ideas.

... but is it not the same in Europe to some extent ? Does the typical small Italian, Spanish or German village really foster or encourage the same point of view as London, Paris, Frankfurt or Rome?

I grew up in a small village, and there is hardly any difference with the big cities I have lived in afterwards (London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Florence, Barcelona, Sevilla...).

 

[Maciamo]

The Catholic and the Baptists are always at each other's throats. Luckly I was raised Epsicapalian. :relief: Everybody who went to my old chruch, conservative or not was very open minded. I wish everybody here was like that. My best friend was part of the Christian Fellowship Church, before tuning them out. He's still religious, but he's open minded now. As he said, "Being forced to have the Bible shoved down your throat for eighteen years straight can desensitize a person pretty quickly in organized religion.

One good thing with Christianity in Europe is that about 80% of the people are Roman Catholic (Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Austria, Southern Germany, Poland, Ireland, etc.) or Anglican Catholic (UK), with only the North Germanic countries being Protestant, and nowhere as divided as in the States. This relative uniformty of beliefs makes it much easier to discredit their ideas (like the Protestant did) and point out the abuses (dirty rich church, pedophile priests...) continent-wide. I realised that it's more difficult to prove a Protestant wrong as they have already cleaned up most of the worst absurdities of Christianity (the rest is mostly philosophical and take time to explain).

 

[Ma Cherie]

I expect that from most Americans, but would find it utterly strange for a European.



Have you seen this survey of the BBC ? It says that about 55% of Americans regularily attend religious services (against 21% in the UK and 7% in Russia), and 70% of Americans would die for their religion !! (against 19% of Britons). In my experience the 20% or so of very religious Britons are mostly people over 50 year old. Among young people, I'd say less than 5%.

I having a difficult time believing that survey, I'm afraid. But then I'm not someone who believes statistics, entirely. But that survey doesn't quite right to me. Especially the statistic about the one where 70% of Americans would die for their religion. :?

 

[Brooker]

When I was younger, America seemed to be much more hard core about enforcing "the separation of church and state". I think it's GW who changed that in large part. But I think it will eventually go back to how it was. Religion didn't come up much while Clinton was president. Ah, the good ol' Clinton days. Will we ever see such peace and prosperity again?

 

[Revenant]

Christianity is supposed to be a choice, so I don't get how the Christian Right feels a right to impose Christian values on non-believers, it just seems so counterproductive to their objective, that being to bring people to the faith. Just cause someone is forced to abide by Christian values doesn't make them saved, nor does it make them feel inclined to become a Christian, but rather the opposite.

But Americans really are afflicted with two-tone perception. The Christian Right assumes that anyone isn't of the faith is somehow immoral, while the non-believers in America often brand anyone who claims Christianity to be a gay hater, and a Bush supporter.

I am a Christian, and often have people assume that I'm one of those Christian Right. I get posts directed at me, telling me to just leave the gays alone, and asking why I support Bush. I neither bother gays, nor support those who do, and neither do I support Bush.

 

[mad pierrot]

When I was younger, America seemed to be much more hard core about enforcing "the separation of church and state". I think it's GW who changed that in large part.

I've had the exact same feeling. My parents (both in their 50s) seems less conservative when compared to today's religious nuts. Even my mother, a devote Roman Catholic who goes to church twice a week, really hates the current trend in politics. So do many of my friend's parents....

Maybe the 60's loosened them up?
(Peace/Love Jesus generation?)

:smoke: :hat:

 

[Maciamo]

Christianity is supposed to be a choice, so I don't get how the Christian Right feels a right to impose Christian values on non-believers

Who said Christianity was a choice ? Have you ever heard of proselytism ? Christianity, like Judaism and Islam, claim that there is only one true god, theirs, and that forcedly all people who believe differently are wrong or need help finding the right path to salvation. That is one of the reasons why I can't tolerate monotheist religious. They are exclusivisist and intolerant by nature. If you think differently, then you may not be a true Christian (...as they say).

 

[Revenant]

Christianity being a monotheistic religion, of course doesn't accept that there is another God. The imposing that I'm talking about is voting against gay rights. Gays are not a part of the church, or the faith, and therefore aren't beholden to the laws of Christianity.

The way most evangelism is done is quite wrong I feel. A person shouldn't feel that they need to become a Christian out of fear. No one follows the laws of love out of fear. Does "I sincerely love you cause I'm afraid you will kill me" actually sound like true love? I'm not sure if you're objecting to people believing in only one God, or the way they evangelizing. But if it's evangelism, then I agree, that the way it's done is not right. People should want to become a Christian, and not feel they must or they will go to hell, or be ostracized.

I guess I'm all for simply letting people know I'm a Christian, and just being an example of what it is to be a Christian. If people want to know more, I'll tell them more, but they have to be geniunely interested first. I will however defend Christianity if I feel there is a misconception about it, or that someone is simply trying to demonize the faith.

 

[enix_fan]

When I tell this to most people in Europe I don't get much reaction above 'okay, I'm cool with that. When I have told a North American I get 'What, no way?'. The only ones that do react in a similar way are JWs, but then they try to convert you.

:sorry: american christians have no life (the ones that try to convert anyways)