Politics Balkanian disagreements.

[LABERIA]

How sickening that they use the name of the ancient Illyrian civilization in the name of Islamism.

Where you have read that there is an tentative to connect ancient Illyrians with Islam? Can you elaborate this pls?

 

[LABERIA]

I guess for Macedonians, the experience with Albanians is mostly not positive. In Macedonia they are overwhelmingly muslim and the most radical muslims amongst Albanians everywhere. I know in Albania the story is different, but in Macedonia we have to deal with those wishing to establish an Islamic separatist state (called Ilirida). I think if Macedonian-Albanians toned down their Islamism and became more like Albanians in Albania, then we wouldn't have such an issue.

Now, even you learned this kind of game. Even you want to hide behind the religion. The problem in FYROM is not religious, but ethnic. I don`t know from where arrived at your mind that an new, fresh, invented nation like your small nation is abble to subdue this people part of the probably the most ancient nation not only in the region but in the entire continent. This is wrong. There was in the past 25 years thoughts from both sides to divide FYROM or create an federation following the ethnic lines. There was never an tentative to create an Islamic state. In the current and long political crisis of your country, Albanian political parties stance has always been correct towards the institutions of the state and your political parties. You have to understand a couple of things. The creation of your country is a result of international conjunctures. If you want that your country have an future, you need to behave like Europeans, starting with the respect of every single citizen, ethnic and religious group. You have to take as example the Republic of Albania and the Republic of Kosova.

 

[Piro Ilir]

And again Turk- Albanians are funny, just throwing mud to others,

lets the ecomonical capitals of Albania at 2015 and from 2011

2010 Greec is 1rst
2011 Greece is second with 17.% of all invesments at Albania, numbers given by the ALBANIAN STATE BANK AND INSTAT 1rst is Canada (doctor's daughter and silver shares with JP MoRGAN)
2014 again Greece is 1rst with 25.6 % and Canada is second with 16.6%

Italy is always stable 3rd with 9-14% alla that time,


lets see more
Did indeed Germany or EU gave money to Greece direct?
The answer is No,
the 'Liguid mechanization' of EU just quaranted and lend with low rate the amount of Greek investements in EU so not to make a domino effect,
over 200 000 work places moved to Bulagaria and rest EU countries due to that,
All the momorandums that Greece and EU signed with IMF supervision had to do with Greek investements / shares at EU,
for example at a North East country of EU Greek corporations owned the 30% of mobile telecomunications corporations/companies,
so EU or Germany energising the Liguid mechanism quaranted that this 30% outside Greece and to another EU country, and lend to Greece with low rate in order to have stability in Eurozone,

as you underdstand all that numbers is not only liguid help, but a trust among Eurozone to keep the prices of shares and stability of Eurozone,
the above 30% in the years if Greece is not able to pay back, changes hands and owners and passes to the ECB and EU states property according how much they gave,
for example at every 100 000 000 E EU gaves to Greece only 15% enters as liguid help to Banks,
10% is new pappernotes and coins to cut by Greek state Mint and not by other EU mint
and the rest guarantee to the loaners

PS
Thank you for giving the step to prove you that in your country NEWS ARE STRANGE!!!!

if you can not read, google it
http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomi...s-ksenoys-ependytes-sthn-alvania.2471776.html
http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomi...-ependyths-sthn-alvania-h-ellada.4186771.html

bye bye Turko-Cham
the capital control is to secure liguid money, that are inside and outside Greece but are Greek properties,
I as Greek tax payer I can take only a limit of my deposits either in Greece, either in Germany, either in Czech republic.
when you understand that, come back to discuss.

It is. This is exactly what Balkan people do to themselves. What surprises me is that they only notice how insulting their posts are when I move them here from other threads. When I move posts here, they immediately stop posting, they refuse to continue their insults here. I would gladly never see this thread anymore, but surprisingly it does a good job to stop fights.

Le Brok, is that a normal post. This member isn't insulting me, but instead he is insulting you. You are the owner of the house.

Calling me a Turk, is that normal! He is doing that all the time. Why you are allowing people like him here! Why you need him for?

 

[Piro Ilir]

How sickening that they use the name of the ancient Illyrian civilization in the name of Islamism.

There's a reason why the Albanians of Macedonia are more islamists. They see it as away to oppose the slavitisation. Kosova and Albania are independent states, thus the Albanians there have no need for the religion to oppose the assimilation. The same it's happening with the Albanians of south serbia. The Albanians of south Serbia and Western Macedonia are more related with the conservative Islam.

However, the statue of Scanderbeg it's placed in Skopje and the Albanians of Macedonia fought for that.

 

[Dinarid]

Where do you read that i think highly of the Turks? Can you elaborate pls?

Do you read what i have posted here? Let me repeat because this probably can help you:

Feel free to ask me to repeat my post twice, but pls don`t put in my mouth words that i have never said. There is always an reason why a country is ally with another one. Going around in forums and speak about inexistent enemies, it`s just ridiculous.

Well, as Albanian i consider the Ottomans as the worst enemy in our history. But for the rest of Orthodox Balkanites,(except orthodox Albanians and few isolated cases) i continue to call them COLLABORATORS of the Ottomans. But again here i want to repeat my question that you didn`t answer to(seems that with you need to repeat twice) do you have any historical knowledge about this period of time?
Here i want to explain another point. After the liberation from the Ottomans, we had to deal with other enemies. We do not bordering with the Republic of Turkey. So we don`t have problems with the said country. Another reason for good relations between Albania and Turkey is the fact that in Turkey live today millions of Albanians(some sources speak about 7.000.000 albanians). This are part of different albanian emigration in Turkey. But the bulk of this people are albanians expelled from their ethnic land from Greece and mostly from Serbia during the XX century. Until this country was a secular country, our relations were quite normal as with any other country. Don`t forget that we are ally in NATO. We can not continue to live with the history, but we don`t forget history. But from the moment that in this country there is an clear tentative to install an authoritarian and Islamic government, things can not be the same.
And? We live in a free world. People are free to dream everything. Nations have their political and nationalistic agenda. This is very common in Balcan and not only. Just look this new Balcan country without a definitive name called FYROM. They pretend to be the descendats of Alexander The Great and they like to play with maps, including in this maps territory from neighbouring countries. The problem is not why Turkey has ambitions, because this is normal. The problem is the collaboration with their ambitions. And from history we know who collaborated with Ottomans for 500 years. I brought you an example from modern history. How many you want? Because we have to stop with this hypocrisy. The folktales related with the creation of a national identity are one thing and the reality is another.

First who are we? Second, try to have an clear vision of what happen. This time i will advice you to make an clear dinstiction between mythology and reality.

It's great that they have their ambitions, it's just that every nation in the Balkans except for Islamic Bosnia should be opposed to their ambitions at our home.

 

[Piro Ilir]

And again Turk- Albanians are funny, just throwing mud to others,

lets the ecomonical capitals of Albania at 2015 and from 2011

2010 Greec is 1rst
2011 Greece is second with 17.% of all invesments at Albania, numbers given by the ALBANIAN STATE BANK AND INSTAT 1rst is Canada (doctor's daughter and silver shares with JP MoRGAN)
2014 again Greece is 1rst with 25.6 % and Canada is second with 16.6%

Italy is always stable 3rd with 9-14% alla that time,


lets see more
Did indeed Germany or EU gave money to Greece direct?
The answer is No,
the 'Liguid mechanization' of EU just quaranted and lend with low rate the amount of Greek investements in EU so not to make a domino effect,
over 200 000 work places moved to Bulagaria and rest EU countries due to that,
All the momorandums that Greece and EU signed with IMF supervision had to do with Greek investements / shares at EU,
for example at a North East country of EU Greek corporations owned the 30% of mobile telecomunications corporations/companies,
so EU or Germany energising the Liguid mechanism quaranted that this 30% outside Greece and to another EU country, and lend to Greece with low rate in order to have stability in Eurozone,

as you underdstand all that numbers is not only liguid help, but a trust among Eurozone to keep the prices of shares and stability of Eurozone,
the above 30% in the years if Greece is not able to pay back, changes hands and owners and passes to the ECB and EU states property according how much they gave,
for example at every 100 000 000 E EU gaves to Greece only 15% enters as liguid help to Banks,
10% is new pappernotes and coins to cut by Greek state Mint and not by other EU mint
and the rest guarantee to the loaners

PS
Thank you for giving the step to prove you that in your country NEWS ARE STRANGE!!!!

if you can not read, google it
http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomi...s-ksenoys-ependytes-sthn-alvania.2471776.html
http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomi...-ependyths-sthn-alvania-h-ellada.4186771.html

bye bye Turko-Cham
the capital control is to secure liguid money, that are inside and outside Greece but are Greek properties,
I as Greek tax payer I can take only a limit of my deposits either in Greece, either in Germany, either in Czech republic.
when you understand that, come back to discuss.

Yetos, you write in your profile: ethnic Macedonian. Surely you know that until 1912, the year of Ottoman's collapse, whether the territory of Epirus and the territory of Greek Macedonia were inhabited mainly by ethnic Albanians, Aromanians and Slavs. Thus, continuing: after the invasion of Greece into these territories, Greece and turkey had an agreement on the famous ~population exchange~ . Hence , a large number of orthodox people of west Anatolia (probably ethnic Greeks, but not sure) settled into these former Ottoman regions. The ethnic balances had changed. The modern inhabitants of these regions are surely not natives/indigenous there, except the Aromani , slav macedons and the Albanians. So, are a slav- macedon? Are you an Aroman? Are you a Megleno Roman? Are you an Albanian/Arvanit [emoji23] ? Or are you a turko- Greek from Anatolia? Considering that the Greeks of Greek Macedonia are refugees from Turkey, we should say that you are the true~ Turk~ here.



2-You may do ~ blah blah~ and screaming all the day, but in the end, the whole Europe, or better saying the entire world are aware that Britain, USA and recently Germany saved the Greece from falling apart and from the bankruptcy.


(Ethnic Macedonian. What a nonsense)[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

 

[Piro Ilir]

It's great that they have their ambitions, it's just that every nation in the Balkans except for Islamic Bosnia should be opposed to their ambitions at our home.

Probably you know whether what's the Albanian flag and the national Albanian hero? There's no risk of defection into the eastern side from the Albanian nation.

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, you write in your profile: ethnic Macedonian. Surely you know that until 1912, the year of Ottoman's collapse, whether the territory of Epirus and the territory of Greek Macedonia were inhabited mainly by ethnic Albanians, Aromanians and Slavs. Thus, continuing: after the invasion of Greece into these territories, Greece and turkey had an agreement on the famous ~population exchange~ . Hence , a large number of orthodox people of west Anatolia (probably ethnic Greeks, but not sure) settled into these former Ottoman regions. The ethnic balances had changed. The modern inhabitants of these regions are surely not natives/indigenous there, except the Aromani , slav macedons and the Albanians. So, are a slav- macedon? Are you an Aroman? Are you a Megleno Roman? Are you an Albanian/Arvanit [emoji23] ? Or are you a turko- Greek from Anatolia? Considering that the Greeks of Greek Macedonia are refugees from Turkey, we should say that you are the true~ Turk~ here.



2-You may do ~ blah blah~ and screaming all the day, but in the end, the whole Europe, or better saying the entire world are aware that Britain, USA and recently Germany saved the Greece from falling apart and from the bankruptcy.


(Ethnic Macedonian. What a nonsense)[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

my family is here unknown time,

at 1850 under |Ottoamn occupation they left the old village and create the new one 20 km further,

now your written show how much ignorant you are,

IN fACT IN MY AREA NO ALBANIAN EXISTED,

ONLY 7000 Turk-Albanians who served the Ottoman army,

as for your claims!!!
Blah blah blah
history and census shpow oposite,

bye bye


PS you have the same syndrom as most Albanians here,
you see Albanians everywhere, even where they never existed,

in my area and around infact if you knew,

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, you write in your profile: ethnic Macedonian. Surely you know that until 1912, the year of Ottoman's collapse, whether the territory of Epirus and the territory of Greek Macedonia were inhabited mainly by ethnic Albanians, Aromanians and Slavs. Thus, continuing: after the invasion of Greece into these territories, Greece and turkey had an agreement on the famous ~population exchange~ . Hence , a large number of orthodox people of west Anatolia (probably ethnic Greeks, but not sure) settled into these former Ottoman regions. The ethnic balances had changed. The modern inhabitants of these regions are surely not natives/indigenous there, except the Aromani , slav macedons and the Albanians. So, are a slav- macedon? Are you an Aroman? Are you a Megleno Roman? Are you an Albanian/Arvanit [emoji23] ? Or are you a turko- Greek from Anatolia? Considering that the Greeks of Greek Macedonia are refugees from Turkey, we should say that you are the true~ Turk~ here.



2-You may do ~ blah blah~ and screaming all the day, but in the end, the whole Europe, or better saying the entire world are aware that Britain, USA and recently Germany saved the Greece from falling apart and from the bankruptcy.


(Ethnic Macedonian. What a nonsense)[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

my family is here unknown time,

at 1850 under |Ottoamn occupation they left the old village and create the new one 20 km further,

now your written show how much ignorant you are,

and again you are historically wrong,
only the battle of Crete is enough to say that general winter won the Nazi at WW2, cause stole time from Barbarossa acts plans
and the first victory of allies at WW2 was done by Greeks, raising the morale of the above,

and they reward us with Civil war and Junda,

as for Deutschland, she earn enough from Greek economical crisis,
except Siemens case, etc etc, she earned much more cause if Greece can not repay the loan, automatically germany becomes No 1 owner of many shares and investments at many countries that it is not,

besides only the sugar case, is enough, for someone to understand why all that is ahppening,
we close 4 big factories of more than 10 000 and how many producers change their plantations just to keep the brown sugar prize, and hold the mercant with new world,
before entrance at EU Greece produced sugar enough for 80 000 000 people to consum,
today we import brown, just to keep merchantise going,

As you see. again your accusations are in thin air, just mud,

besides the money of repayment that Germany owns to Greek victims of war, HAVE NOT BEEEN PAID YET.
What germany is giving now is not even 10 %

But From a Turk-Albanian i was not expecting more,

 

[LABERIA]

my family is here unknown time,

at 1850 under |Ottoamn occupation they left the old village and create the new one 20 km further,

now your written show how much ignorant you are,

and again you are historically wrong,
only the battle of Crete is enough to say that general winter won the Nazi at WW2, cause stole time from Barbarossa acts plans
and the first victory of allies at WW2 was done by Greeks, raising the morale of the above,

and they reward us with Civil war and Junda,

as for Deutschland, she earn enough from Greek economical crisis,
except Siemens case, etc etc, she earned much more cause if Greece can not repay the loan, automatically germany becomes No 1 owner of many shares and investments at many countries that it is not,

besides only the sugar case, is enough, for someone to understand why all that is ahppening,
we close 4 big factories of more than 10 000 and how many producers change their plantations just to keep the brown sugar prize, and hold the mercant with new world,
before entrance at EU Greece produced sugar enough for 80 000 000 people to consum,
today we import brown, just to keep merchantise going,

As you see. again your accusations are in thin air, just mud,

besides the money of repayment that Germany owns to Greek victims of war, HAVE NOT BEEEN PAID YET.
What germany is giving now is not even 10 %

But From a Turk-Albanian i was not expecting more,

No, i think you are wrong. The most important Greek battle during the WWII was this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae_(1941)

 

[Garrick]

How sickening that they use the name of the ancient Illyrian civilization in the name of Islamism.

Illyrians disappeared in 3-4 century as cultural and political entity.

Today it can be Illyrian blood among Slovenes, Croats, Serbs, Bosniacs, Albanians, Greeks, even Hungarians. It doesn't matter.

...
When any state or territory become Dar al-Islam things are changed. You know one example, it it same for Kosovo*.

You can read American and European newspapers. Radical Islam become stronger, Wahhabism spreads, Salafi movement gets more and more supporters, Extremist imams wins moderate imams, it gives a lot of recruits for IS etc.

In Macedonia situation is better because Macedonian government fights against extremism. And it gives results.

 

[Yetos]

No, i think you are wrong. The most important Greek battle during the WWII was this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae_(1941)

i suggest you to read this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Greece

THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT FACED 4 INVADED ENEMIES AT WW2 is GREECE,

I also suggest to see this

the speches of W Churchil at 9th April 1941

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1941-04-09a.1587.1#g1587.3

and at 24 April 1941

PS

I AM NOT EXPECTING SOMETHING SERIOUS FROM SOMEONE THAT NEVER WROTE HISTORY,
ONLY SUPPORTED OTTOMANS Before AND AXIS AT WW2,
THE ONLY STATE THAT GAVE LAND TO AXIS WITHOUT A FIGHT,

When you make a serious fight, come back to tell us,


PS2
your brave king Ahahahahaha

the Italian general Visconti Prasca writes all about that war,

THE ALBANIAN DECLARATION OF 10 June 1940 Ahahahahaha, what bravery!!!!
the attack of 10 november 1940 of Albanian troops against Greek army, Ahahahaha , Lasted only 2 hours 6 000 Albanians vs 2 mountain Greek battalions. Ahahahaha.
the battle at Kalpaki

remember?

4rth November of 1940,
THE MOST BRAVE AND FUUL OF GLORY ALBANIAN BATTALLION 'TIMOR'
Battle of height 1289

you can also read Mario Cervi,
at the attack at Delvino from a f orce of 1200 Albanians next day remained only 400 while only 200 were dead, the rest fly like chickens,

more?
27 November Fraseri

Pollo and Puto 2 historians who say that at the end Italians close at camps 2 Albanian battalions, cause they wanted to join the Greek army!!!

come on, read francesco Jacomoni.


FROM A COUNTRY THAT NEVER FOUGHT FOR ITS FREEDOM WHEN BALKANS ERASE, BUT FOLLOWED OTTOMANS AND AXIS YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO CHALLENG OTHER BALKAN COUNTRIES.

 

[Garrick]

PS

I AM NOT EXPECTING SOMETHING SERIOUS FROM SOMEONE THAT NEVER WROTE HISTORY,
ONLY SUPPORTED OTTOMANS Before AND AXIS AT WW2,
THE ONLY STATE THAT GAVE LAND TO AXIS WITHOUT A FIGHT,

When you make a serious fight, come back to tell us,

Yes, it is undeniable.

Albanians were ally of the Axis powers, and they got Greater Albania.

Greeks and Serbs were mostly provided fighters against Nazism/fascism in the Balkans.

In the picture we can see Greater Albania, and occupied Greece and Serbia.

 

[Dinarid]

I still can't understand why you all feel the need to behave like children. You continuously insult each other's countries and put your own on a pedestal. It's quite ridiculous, really, and only makes you look bad.

 

[Garrick]

I still can't understand why you all feel the need to behave like children. You continuously insult each other's countries and put your own on a pedestal. It's quite ridiculous, really, and only makes you look bad.

No.

You cannot understand reasons.

Albanians trying to blame Greeks for Arvanites and Chamuria, and use different possible ways.

It is same for Illyrians and Pelasgians, Enver Hoxha put entire science of state into service to promote his dream that Albanians are Illyrians and they have link with Pelasgians, even that Greek Gods are not Greek but Albanian etc., of course they proved nothing but it entered in school system and Albanians think it is true.

It is same for taqiyya, unfortunately all reports say that radical Islam is in rise among Albanians.

Etc.

Nobody has against Albanians, but without reaction someone can think what they say is true, and people have to react and give facts.

You would react in the same way to the untruths that afflict you and your nation and you would not be considered that your reaction is childish.

If you like to hear some bad things I will say about Serbia, people are poorly interested in social issues, they are becoming more selfish, much less friendship, detachment grows, money has become the only measure of value, less live communications, countryside is less popular these days etc., whether these stories are have known to you or are problems in BH federation are different.

 

[VMRO1893]

There's a reason why the Albanians of Macedonia are more islamists. They see it as away to oppose the slavitisation. Kosova and Albania are independent states, thus the Albanians there have no need for the religion to oppose the assimilation. The same it's happening with the Albanians of south serbia. The Albanians of south Serbia and Western Macedonia are more related with the conservative Islam.

However, the statue of Scanderbeg it's placed in Skopje and the Albanians of Macedonia fought for that.

We have no problem with George Kastrioti, he was a good Christian fighter against muslim Ottomans.

 

[VMRO1893]

Tettovo area?

Yes, but their ambitions extend well beyond Tetovo

 

[Garrick]

Yes, but their ambitions extend well beyond Tetovo

Every honor, you reduce the extremist influence in Macedonia.

http://faith-matters.org/2016/07/09/macedonian-police-arrest-four-suspected-islamic-state-links/

 

[DuPidh]

Yes, but their ambitions extend well beyond Tetovo

I am Not aware of ethnic borders in Macedonia but I have heard from Albs that they were left in Macedonian side of the borders without their consent or forcefully by the big powers of 1913. As such they have the natural right that within the borders of their state (Macedonia) to expand if their numbers rise as a result of birthrates or contract if their numbers decline. So they have the right that within their borders to aspire new frontiers. I see you surprised about that.

 

[VMRO1893]

I am Not aware of ethnic borders in Macedonia but I have heard from Albs that they were left in Macedonian side of the borders without their consent or forcefully by the big powers of 1913. As such they have the natural right that within the borders of their state (Macedonia) to expand if their numbers rise as a result of birthrates or contract if their numbers decline. So they have the right that within their borders to aspire new frontiers. I see you surprised about that.

And this is the essence of balkan wars. Macedonians in Greece for example claim the same happened to them with the Bucharest Treaty in 1913. Bulgarians in Serbia also claim something similar, Croats in Bosnia, Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia etc etc etc. Albanians are not alone in having border grievances and they have no greater right to change borders than any other aggrieved people. They have however been successful in Kosovo due to their western (and in particular US) backing. What is puzzling is why the US would back muslims over Christians in the Balkans. I guess that was before 9/11....