Immigration Ban the burka?

ArdvanMelick said:
I do not see why, for me it is an expression of free will.
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Now you just need to argument that they have free will. ;) Slaves had free will not to listen to the master. Remind us how did it go.
 
edao said:
Do you think the burka should be banned? ...
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Absolutely. I only want to see people wearing masks at fancy dress parties. At any other time a masks represents a burglar. That is part of our joint culture in Europe. Our culture, our rules, our laws. What they do in their own homes doesn't interest me.
 
Marianne said:
I believe burka should be banned in Europe, not for religious reasons, but because I am offended as a woman when I see other women being forced to wear it.
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how do you know they are forced to wear it?
 
Yes I support the Burka ban, not as a sign of cultural domination but as a truce that their husbands are willing to give up a luxury to prove that the family is against Islamic Violence.
 
Oasis said:
how do you know they are forced to wear it?
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Natural propensity of every women on this planet is to show her physical beauty to attract the best mate. How can you do that if you are wrapped in a body bag from head to toe?
In case you ask how it is done:
Religious teaching (brainwash), cultural forcing (tradition, wife beating, honor killing).
 
LeBrok said:
Natural propensity of every women on this planet is to show her physical beauty to attract the best mate. How can you do that if you are wrapped in a body bag from head to toe?
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One correction: In addition to 'attracting the best mate' they also want to impress their peers, probably even more so.
 
LeBrok said:
Natural propensity of every women on this planet is to show her physical beauty to attract the best mate. How can you do that if you are wrapped in a body bag from head to toe?
In case you ask how it is done:
Religious teaching (brainwash), cultural forcing (tradition, wife beating, honor killing).
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You are right because in the end important is the continuity. I think Arthur Schopenhauer has explained very well:

For Schopenhauer the "final aim of all love intrigues, be they comic or tragic, is really of more importance than all other ends in human life. What it all turns upon is nothing less than the composition of the next generation.... It is not the weal or woe of any one individual, but that of the human race to come, which is here at stake."

So, to put it simple, beauty, sensuality, etc are all tricks of human race to the the individual, through which is ensured the continuity of human kind.

P. S.
Sorry for my English, i hope you can understand what i want to say. lol.
 
LABERIA said:
You are right because in the end important is the continuity. I think Arthur Schopenhauer has explained very well:

For Schopenhauer the "final aim of all love intrigues, be they comic or tragic, is really of more importance than all other ends in human life. What it all turns upon is nothing less than the composition of the next generation.... It is not the weal or woe of any one individual, but that of the human race to come, which is here at stake."

So, to put it simple, beauty, sensuality, etc are all tricks of human race to the the individual, through which is ensured the continuity of human kind.

P. S.
Sorry for my English, i hope you can understand what i want to say. lol.
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I think you put it very well.

This is why people who say women, or men, for that matter, should just accept their appearance and be happy with it don't really understand human nature.

I don't know a single woman who wouldn't change things about her appearance if she could. How far she's willing to go is often a function of money and/or squeamishness or fear. There is no way, for instance, that I would have massive surgery to change my appearance, even if it were necessary and I had the money.

There are extremes, of course. There is obviously something wrong mentally with the notorious "cat lady".

One thing that has always struck me is how women from Saudi Arabia, for example, on approaching a landing at, say, Heathrow, go into the bathroom looking like a walking heap of dirty laundry or like Cousin It from "The Addams Family", and come out stylishly dressed and with full, and I mean full, face make-up. It's like the Muslim woman version of Clark Kent transforming into Superman in the phone booth! :)

So, it's pretty clear to me that Muslim women are no different from any others in this regard, unless they're poor, downtrodden women in some back of beyond place in Afghanistan, entombed in veils or burkas and forcibly married off as children to some ancient pedophile pig of a man, and even then I bet they have their vanities about their hair or eyes or skin.

I actually just saw a movie about a mother who risks her life to flee with her daughter rather than let her be married off at ten to some 70 year old tribal elder.

Dukhtar-Daughter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukhtar

From an evolutionary and genetics perspective, it seems clear to me that there are some issues with these kinds of arranged marriages given that we know there are mutations occurring with age that affect offspring. Isn't paternal age correlated with Down's Syndrome and other birth defects? Then, pregnancy often doesn't go very well for such young girls.
 
LABERIA said:
You are right because in the end important is the continuity. I think Arthur Schopenhauer has explained very well:

For Schopenhauer the "final aim of all love intrigues, be they comic or tragic, is really of more importance than all other ends in human life. What it all turns upon is nothing less than the composition of the next generation.... It is not the weal or woe of any one individual, but that of the human race to come, which is here at stake."

So, to put it simple, beauty, sensuality, etc are all tricks of human race to the the individual, through which is ensured the continuity of human kind.
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Right. For every life form on Earth there are 3 major goals in life: Eat, Survive, Multiply. Next generation is the primal goal of all life, never mind if it is a bacteria or human being. Without next generation there are no species. It is quite sad, but simple true explanation of life. Sad for humans, as we imagine ourselves as something very special and with higher purpose.


So, to put it simple, beauty, sensuality, etc are all tricks of human race to the the individual, through which is ensured the continuity of human kind.
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This simple natural way was in action for millions of years in our hunter gatherer stage. Long enough to leave genetic predisposition, a genetic memory how to make yourself more attractive for men. Genetic memory strong enough that even small girls love to dress up and do makeup, without even understanding the purpose of these actions.
Then farming came and with it the patriarchal structure of society. Spouses were arranged, so there was no need for girls to display feminine beauty to attract the mate. They didn't have this choice anymore. Women were treated like property of man, giving one more reason to cover them with burka for protection. This way they don't' attract any men attention and a chance for adultery or even being stolen if woman was pretty. Once it was widespread, it became traditional and even supported by religion.
It didn't happen in all farming communities to this extreme. However in all West Eurasia head dresses became mandatory for all married women in public places. A symbol of belonging to a man, being out of limits for other man, sign of man's property.
We could say that burks is a symbol and the instrument of slavery, when women were, and in some instances still are, slaves of men. On these grounds it should be abolished like slavery was.

It just beats me that someone can claim that women could do this at their own will.
horribleugly+burka+parade.jpg


Should we mention that people are extremely good in reading emotions from human faces? Face is an excellent in communication. Natural way to convey emotions is through our faces. Natural way of recognizing a person is to see a face.
 
This how nature or God (depends in what you believe) has created the human being. At the moment that you decide to cover with burka a woman or a girl, you are against the rules of nature or God.
 
LABERIA said:
This how nature or God (depends in what you believe) has created the human being. At the moment that you decide to cover with burka a woman or a girl, you are against the rules of nature or God.
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and a sign of insignificance to others
 
I personally don't care what people wear but the burka is a symbol of oppression of women, and I don't mean women who willingly wear it, but those who are forced to.
We should criminalize forcing women to wear the burka, and not the burka itself, perhaps a woman wants to wear the burka while going shopping. Why is it my business to tell that woman she is not allowed to wear it. I am a libertarian liberal mostly, but I do sympathize with people trying to ban it, so that women can't be forced to wear it.
 
Petros Agapetos said:
I personally don't care what people wear but the burka is a symbol of oppression of women, and I don't mean women who willingly wear it, but those who are forced to.
We should criminalize forcing women to wear the burka, and not the burka itself, perhaps a woman wants to wear the burka while going shopping. Why is it my business to tell that woman she is not allowed to wear it. I am a libertarian liberal mostly, but I do sympathize with people trying to ban it, so that women can't be forced to wear it.
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Agree with everything you said.
The burka is a form of societal oppression of woman. Europe should play no part in this.
 
An EU court has ruled that the hijab can be banned in the workplace. The grounds are that a company has the right to create a "neutral" work environment with no religious or political symbolism.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/201...from-wearing-headscarves-european-court-rules

I think this is an absolutely terrible law. It would never pass constitutional muster here in the U.S. It's a total infringement of the right to practice one's religion and free speech both.

What is happening in Europe?

I said here numerous times that government entities would be within their rights to do that if it was a workplace safety issue. I don't see how it would impact safety in most work situations, however.

A burka is another matter.
 
gyms said:
"What is happening in Europé?"

Are you kidding?
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No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding when I talk about basic human rights.

Is shredding them really going to be the response of Europe to its refugee crisis?
 
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