Berbers and Albanians, E haplogroup and linguistic similarity

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E_(Y-DNA)
E1b1b1b1 (M81)

While there have been no attested exemplars of E1*, its sub-clade, E1a (M33), is found most often in West Africa, and today it is especially common in the region of Mali. One study has found haplogroup E1a-M33 Y-chromosomes in as much as 34% (15/44) of a sample of Malian men. Haplogroup E1a also has been detected among samples obtained from Guinea-Bissau, Moroccan Berbers, Sahrawis, Burkina Faso, northern Cameroon, Senegal, Sudan, Egypt, Calabria (including both Italian speakers at 1.3% and Albanian speakers at 2.9%), Trentino (1/67 or 1.5%), and Portugal (5/553 or approximately 0.9%).
Haplogroup E1a has been detected in North Africa and Europe independently of the ubiquitous E1b1a. Because E1b1a is known to have expanded recently, this leaves open the possibility of an ancient expansion from West Africa into North Africa and Europe of E1a lineages.


http://wapedia.mobi/en/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)
Arredi et al. (2004) believe the pattern of distribution and variance to be consistent with the hypothesis of a post Paleolithic "demic diffusion" from the East. The ancestral lineage of E-M81 in their hypothesis could have been linked with the spread of Neolithic food-producing technologies from the Fertile Crescent via the Nile, although pastoralism rather than agriculture. E-M81 and possibly proto-Afroasiatic language may have been carried either all the way from Asia, or they may represent a "local contribution to the North African Neolithic transition". According to Shomarka Keita, a Near Eastern origin of proto-Afroasiatic speakers carrying E-M81, or its ancestral lineage, is inconsistent with the linguistic evidence, which seems to indicate an African origin of Proto-Afro-Asiatic speakers. Keita argues that there is no autochthonous presence of E-M81 in the Near East, indicating that M81 most likely emerged from its parent clade M35 either in the Maghreb, or possibly as far south as the Horn of Africa.
In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the Iberian Peninsula, where unlike in the rest of Europe it is more common than E-M78, with an average frequency of 4-5.6%, and frequencies reaching 9% in Galicia, 10% in Western Andalusia and Northwest Castile and 9% to 17% in Cantabria. The highest frequencies of this clade found so far in Europe were observed in the Pasiegos from Cantabria, ranging from 18% (8/45) to 41% (23/56). An average frequency of 8.28% (54/652) has also been reported in the Spanish Canary Islands with frequencies over 10% in the three largest islands of Tenerife (10.68%), Gran Canaria (11.54%) and Fuerteventura (13.33%).
E-M81 is also found in France, 2.70 % (15/555) overall with frequencies surpassing 5% in Auvergne (5/89) and Île-de-France (5/91), in Sicily (approximately 2% overall, but up to 7% in Piazza Armerina), and in slightly lower frequencies in continental Italy (especially near Lucera) possibly due to ancient migrations during the Islamic, Roman, and Carthaginian empires.

As a result of its old world distribution, this sub-clade is found throughout Latin America, for example 6.1% in Cuba, 5.4% in Brazil (Rio de Janeiro), and among Hispanic men from California and Hawaii 2.4%.
In smaller numbers, E-M81 men can be found in areas in contact with the Maghreb, both around the Sahara, in places like Sudan, and around the Mediterranean in places like Lebanon, Turkey, and amongst Sephardic Jews.


Sub Clades of E1b1b1b1 (E-M81)

There are two recognized sub-clades, although one is much more important than the other.
  • E1b1b1b1a (E-M107). Underhill et al. (2000) found one example in Mali.
  • E1b1b1b2b (E-M183). This clade is extremely dominant within E-M81. In fact, while Karafet et al. (2008) continues to describe this as a sub-clade of E-M81, and ISOGG defers to Karafet et al., all data seems to imply that it should actually be considered phylogenetically equivalent to M81. As of 24 November 2008, several SNPs are considered to define sub-clades of E-M183, although the phylogenetic structure is not yet known with confidence: M165, M243, M340, and L19.
 
DejaVu
Yes, it was known for the Albanians of Calabria to have E-M81, but I think that in this study revealed for the first time for the Albanians in Macedonia, FYROM.

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)

E1b1b1b1 (E-M81), formerly E1b1b1b, E3b1b, and E3b2, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in the Maghreb, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in the area of North Africa 5,600 years ago.[2][24] This haplogroup reaches a mean frequency of 42% in North Africa, decreasing in frequency from 76% in Morocco to ~10% in Egypt.[25] It is colloquially referred to as the "Berber marker" for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle and other Berber groups. E-M81 is also quite common among North African Arabic-speaking groups. It is generally found at frequencies around 45% in coastal cities of the Maghreb (Oran, Tunis, Tizi Ouzou, Algiers)[26] but reaches frequencies of up to 80% among some isolated groups of Morocco. This includes the Saharawis for whose men Bosch et al. (2001) reports that approximately 76% are M81+. Pereira et al. (2010) report high levels amongst Tuareg in two Saharan populations - 77.8% near Gorom-Gorom, in Burkina Faso, and 81.8% from Gosi in Mali. There was a much lower frequency of 11.1% in the vicinity of Tanut in the Republic of Niger.

Y_Hap_EM-81.PNG


For Lybia and Chad as the south of Algeria investigations are not carried out but no doubt that the E-M81 and there is represented.
 
Hmmmmmmmm

Garrick

I mean that R gave language ,
Could some R be rulers of others??/

For Example a small Nation of R1a with Bronze power conquer a Bigger Nation (A) of I2a2 at ex Ucraine and invades Balkans an area of anothernation (B) I2a2 But with soldiers of (A) then the summit of I2a2 would be raised? also the % of previous R1a would be Smaller,

where can i find informations about E-M81?
especially time of mutation, and % in Africa

Iapetoc
Yes, and I think that Serbs and other South Slavic people speak the R1a language.

And when I say Slav and Slavic I primarily think of Slavism in the cultural sense, I already explained.

I'm not sure that I2a2 generally can be called a Slav, in fact I think it cannot.

So the Serbs in a cultural sense are Slavic people and speak a south Slavic language.

But in the DNA sense I think the Serbs are not Slavs, at least not dominant Slavs (as R1a there is among Serbs).

...
You can see that E1b1b1b1 ie. E-M81 colloquially called Berber marker.

It appeared according the sources with Wikipedia before 5600 years.

The dates of occurrence of certain E subclades are very important for our considerations, because we have not yet determined with certainty when E bearers came to the Balkans.
 
What time is E1b1b1b-M81 ??
I mean How old Scientists Believe?

Iapetoc
In addition to finding the "Berber marker" among the Albanians, it is very important and finding Battaglia et al, 2009, European Journal of Human genetics:

"The presence of E-M78 * Y chromosomes in the Balkans (two Albanians), previously described only in virtually northeast Africa, upper Nile, 28, 63 gives rise to The question of what the original source of the E-M78 may have been."
 
Garrick I believe or better I suspect in the 2 unique IE languages the Greek and the Albanian
my approach is that Greeks Took Ie from Hettits minor asia,
Thrasian R1a was a Germanic that came at 1800 BC
later came a Romano celtic R1b and much Later a Slavic R1a

in Homers Language the acoustic and the words are more near German Language than in other IE language,
Tyrrshenian which was the language Before IE I believe was not an IE language but J2b language similar to eteo-Cretan (although i have my reserves)
my reserves have to do with Hettit Language

My estimations about E has to do with 3 dates
1 is about 3500 +- BC
2 is at 1800 BC
3 is at 700-1000 AD,

in first date i believe they came to Peloponese and then moved north
in second date they came at Sicily then to (Greek named Illyria) and moved south
in 3rd date they came to areas that Greek pagans were slained by christians, at the times of islamization of N Africa.

the unknown words of Albanian Language needs a work from a good team of scientists to prove,
I Also read in a book about a hungarian tribe that invade kossovo at 400 AD, but Ι Have lack of sources.

But as a Greek when I look at ancient Greek from mythology to today,
I see that Greeks have common names in Religion with Egypt Hettit-Lydian and Minoans have similarity with Levant,
(even in Bible names the Palestinians as Cretans)
so if half E of balkans the Greek branche have connection with Egypt and Lybia lands, But Kush people (in Homer Ethiop-s Εθιοψ) probably a devastasion from low Kingdom to Upper Kingdom o west Of Nile to Peloponese happened,
your connections with ma'ahes has a meaning with Lion Symbol etc
also with names and tribes like Mess- that exist in Greek and Italy (south)
you show me first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maahes

But
Siwa Oasis is one of Egypt's isolated settlements, with 23,000 people, mostly ethnic Berbers[1] who speak a distinct language of the Berber family known as Siwi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwa_Oasis
Ethnologue Report for Siwi
places Siwi in an Eastern Berber group with the Awjila-Sokna languages of central and eastern Libya. Kossmann (1999)[4] links it with Sokna and the Nafusi dialect cluster of western Libya and Tunisia, but not with Awjila.

now may i remind you that the word Gypsie in Greek means Egyptian (not Roma) and has to do with population that Ottomans moved to Balkans at 1500 and after,
Even the city name I live is Egyptian by a colonization of orthodox Sinai people that were brought by Turks 1780 to work at the Fields since Greeks deny to work in Turkish 'tsiflik'
 
Wikipedia : Origin of the Albanians

Some facts to consider:
a)The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.
Wikipedia :
Byzantine references to Albanians ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians#Byzantine_references_to_.22Albanians.22)
b)Language:
Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages.
Wikipedia :
Albanian language !

Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language.
Wikipedia :
Albanian language , cognates with Illyrian ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Cognates_with_Illyrian)

Many Albanian words do sound Indo-European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.
Wikipedia :
Albanian language , classification ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Classification)

The Chechen language is similar to Albanian.
Wikipedia :
Chechnyan language !
Wikipedia :
Indo-European languages !

They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.
Wikipedia :
Albanian language , consonants ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Phonetics_and_Phonology)

The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see:
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Wikipedia :
Albanians(Shqiptarë) !


c)Their alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters until 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted.
Wikipedia :
Albanian alphabet(Latin) !

d)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Romanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.
Wikipedia :
Albanian language , Latin borrowings ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Latin_element_of_the_Albanian_language)

e)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.

Wikipedia :
Albania(Shqipëria) !


f)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.
Wikipedia :
Albanian language , Greek loans ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Early_Greek_loans)

g)Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
Albo = Arnauti ?
Albani = Latin , Arnavutlu = Turkish !

(Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran)
Wikipedia :
Persian lands , Arran(Rashka) !

Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Bushi is a Turkish word , indicating the Turkic spear mans ! George W. Bush isn't Albanian !
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Baboti is a Greek place name !
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Baka derive from the Latin god Bacchus !
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
This is invented by you !
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Balli means : the front - in Albanian language ! Balli kombëtar , "The national front" is the fascist party of Albania !

Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Bashkimi means the unity , Homer use this word in Iliad "vaskoi" : together !

Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Bathore is village in the periphery of Tirana founded 20 years before !

Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Batër ? Maybe Vatër = father land , German "vater" = father !
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti
Ghegh means Greek !
(Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
The name of the river derive from the ancient Illyrian city "Scampini" !
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia
This stupid village was founded by the Ottomans and even these days lives the Turkish minority of Albania !
(Turkish term: "iron gates";
For sure is in Turkish , it was founded by them ! What kind of name should it have ? Irish ?
term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea
The iron gate is Gibraltar , good morning !
or arch: Albanian Sea)
A synonym of the Ionian sea , Albanian "jonë" = ours !
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish
Kisha means the CHURCH ! Italian "chiesa" = church !
(Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
At least 100 ! Church(kisha) is a typical Albanian place name !
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river)
Village is said "fshat" in Albanian , is Caucasian village is said "kura" . not even a letter in common !
(Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Not even one !
Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini
Lugina means "valley" , borrowed by Latin "lugus" = place , Italian "luogho" = place !
Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian
Rusani means "Russian" , a village when lives the Bulgarian minority of Albania !
Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani
Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti
Shesh means "plaza" !
Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri
Shkalla means "lader" , Italian "scala" = lader !
Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Shkëmb means "clif" , Illyrian "Scampa" = "clif" !
Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda
Shkodra is the ancient capital of Illyria ! Shkodra(Albanian) = Skodra(Illyrian) !
Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli
Shekulli means "century" , Latin "seculus" = century !
Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria
Shkurre means "bush" , Italian = scuro "dark" !

h) The fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Illyrian language based on the Messapic inscriptions found in tombs. So we must come to the conclusion that they either came from a different location (Caucasus theory) or the Illyrian tribes had absolutely NO ability of communicating with each other.
(that does sound stupid don't you think?)
Wikipedia :
Messapic language , Albanian cognates ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messapic_language#Messapian_words)


i) The Illyrian city names mentioned in ancient times that were kept do not follow the Albanian sound change laws, suggesting that they were late borrowing from an intermediary language (most likely Romance or Slavic), rather than inherited (for example ancient Aulona should have been inherited in modern Albanian as Alor? instead of Vlore.
The ancient Illyria city was named Avlona ! Vlona in medieval Albanian ! Vlora in modern Albanian !

j)Ptolemy in Book 5 chapter 15 titled "Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia" (The Fifth Map of Europe)
Never mentions the alleged "albanopolis" that they support he has, and can be found at 46 degrees and 41 degrees 45', but when you look up what he really has writen, you find the city of Thermidava
Ptolemy's Geography can be found at :
penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Illyrians.jpg/800px-Illyrians.jpg

k) Now, when we look at apostle Bartholomew's life, we find he labored in the area around the south end of the Caspian Sea, in the section that was then called Armenia. The modern name of the district where he died is Azerbaijan and the place of his death, called in New Testament times ALBANOPOLIS!!!, is now Derbend which is on the west coast of the Caspian Sea.
aZERBaijan !

l) Out of a list of 40-50 Illyrian city names known to us only 2-5 of the Albanian city names can be connected to them.
Skodra=Shkodra , Lissos=Lezha , Dyrrachios=Durresi , Albanopolis=Albania , Ad Pycaria=Puka , Avlona = Vlona/Vlora , Appolonia = Apollonia , Redon = Rodon , Scampini = Shkumbini , Latio = Laci , Clissura = Kelcyra etc.

m) There is NO MEMORY!!! of the Illyrian past in the Albanian cultural heritage.
Illyrian names :
Agron = agim "sunrise"
Hyll = yll "star"
Bardhyll = Bardh Yll "white star"
Darda = dardha "pear" etc.

n) One of the interesting facts that connect the Albanians to the Caucasus and that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.
The Turks call the Albanians : Arnavutlu ! Derive from Arabic "Arnaoud" : "lion heart" !

o) Hard evidence is the Turkish censuses carried out in 1455, they indicate that Albanian names are found in only 80 of the 600 villages listed in the area, and that they did not constitute territorial groups, ruling out any assumptions that zones evenly and continuously inhabited by Albanians existed at the time.
http://www.albanian.com/information/history/ethnicma/IMAGES/LEJEAN.JPG

p) The first Albo dictionary was published in 1635 and contained only 5,000 words, when today any pocket dictionary contains at least 250.000 proving that their language was still under development.
It was call the "Latino-Epiroticum" dictionary !

q) The most interesting fact is our knowledge of the Arab conquer of the Albanian Caucasus sometime around the 7th cent based on Byzantine, Arab and Armenian sources.
They were converted to Islam and used as military troops to attack Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus.
Wikipedia :
Islamization of Albania , 1500 AD ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Albania#Ottoman_occupation)

Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.
Wikipedia :
Illyrian tribe : Albani ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Illyrian_tribes#Albani)

A fact to support this except the texts themselves is their flag. I'm sure you know that the Byzantine war flag was a double headed eagle on a red background.
Albanian flag :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._of_Albania.svg/700px-Flag_of_Albania.svg.png

HITTITE(Proto-Aryan) flag :
http://symboldictionary.net/library/graphics/symbols/hittiteeagle.jpg
 
Last edited:
Iapetoc
You started right questions and we'll get to them. But to have them come we have to determine about which the population in Africa is the word: The ancient Egyptians, Kushites, Berber, Somali, Nilo Saharan, etc.?

Nilo-Saharan.png


Languages families, Africa


One study carried out in Albania found that
HbS mutation in the Albanian sample is the Benin (Nigeria)-originating haplotype #19.

The study focuses on
characterization of sickle cell mutations.
Boletini E, Svobodova M, Divoky V, Baysal E, Cürük MA, Dimovski AJ, Liang R, Adekile AD, Huisman TH.
Sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania: characterization of mutations.

Hum Genet. 1994 Feb;93(2):182-7.


We already have enough elements given on this subject we can think about different African roots (for example Benin is Niger-Congo population) and this complicate research.


But my own view is closest Cushitic (Hamitic) origin.

Therefore, the next post we will go to ancient Kush, where lived Hamitic and Nilo Saharan peoples, which is bordered with Upper Egypt, and where are the boundaries and populations changed.

Today's territory ancient Kush (Nubia) includes part of the territory of Egypt and Sudan.
 
@DejaVu

Kastrioti was Albanian. Barleti was a friend of him and an ally. In His book he refers to Albanians as Epirotans and Macedonians, Alexander the great as Albanese hero, and also Pyrrhus as Albanese hero, Never Greek or Slavic. Medieval Albanians claimed ancestry of ancient Macedonia and Epirus, and never called themselves Greeks or Slavs. This is why Kastrioti wore Alexanders helmet.

Now Greeks read these kind of things and say Kastrioti was Greek haha, when in really we are Epirotans and Macedonians, not Greeks.

If Kastrioti was Greek then every Albanian is Greek, even Leke Dukagjini founder of the Kanun and an ally of Skanderbeg. Skanderbeg gathered all Albanians to fight the Turks, not Greeks or Slavs. He only had one Montenigrian family in his army.

When Albanians fought Turks, it was an Albanian national awakening, we claimed descendants of Epirus and Macedonia, now you call us Greeks and Slavs?

Alexander the great is Albanian hero and so is Pyrrhus, not Greek or Slavic. Macedonia is Albanian, and so is Epirus. Albania was called Epirus by Barleti (NOT THE EPIRUS in south ALBANIA, wake up) but whole Albania was called Epirus/EPIRE during national awakening.

If you wanna read translation of Barleti's book, you can read Mina Skafte, explaining Barleti's book. because it is misunderstood by Greeks who think Epirotans and Macedonians are Greeks lol, and by Slavs who think they are Macedonians.

http://miqesia.dk/Barleti-Scanderbeg.htm

As for, Albanian-Berber... Cameroons are high in R1a, so are Russians, this means they are the closely related eh? lol

I can find you many connections between Ancient-Macedonian and Albanian, like the Plis, and ancient dances, fustanella etc... And also Epirotan. how come only Albanians have these kind of things? Albanians also still have elemets of ancient Greek mythology. like Zevs, Afrodite etc. Why don't Slavs from Macedonia have this then?

jqmd11.jpg


Albanian warrior, Prek Cali, with Albanian Plis Hat, also used in Ancient Macedonia.

isa-boletini.jpg


Albanian warriors with Plis Hats.

AchillesPatroclos.jpg


Achilles and Patroclus. Notice the Plis hat on Patroclos head.

To this day Albanians are the only ones using the Plis Hat, it's our culture.

2yxp6xx.jpg


Odysseus with Plis hat.

I can post more pictures of Ancient Greeks with Plis Hats.

Now lets look at Alexander on Albanian Coins:

images


skanderbeg333.jpg


Skanderbeg. Notice his Ancient-Macedonian helmet, the goat with two horns.

This does not make him Greek or Slav haha, this makes us Albanians claiming Macedonian And Epirotan ancestry, but maybe you need to wake up? And why you call him only Greek or Slav? Why not All Albanians? Because he is the greatest warrior of all time? so you need to claim him?

And another thing, you'll never find the word Shqipetar or ''Albanian'' before 16th century or something like that. Because we actually called ourselves Arbereshe/Arvanite and Even EPIROTAN before 15th century. But maybe Greeks need to wake up? We've been claiming this shit since medieval times.

But you people live in a fairytale. The greatest warriors in the Balkans, have all been of Albanian origin.

My goodness, it's so funny, because Barleti called Skanderbeg Epirotan, now Greeks think he was Greek, and he wore Alexanders helmet, now FYROMS think he was a Slav. But did you know Barleti called Albania for Epire/Epirus? Did you know he called all Albanians EPIROTANS? and Skanderbeg as Prince of EPIRUS? (PRINCE OF ALBANIA) Now are you gonna call us all Greeks then? haha. You only like to Say Kastrioti was Greek or Slav to manipulate Albanian history and also since he was a great warrior.

Maybe you need to read more books, read here:

http://miqesia.dk/Barleti-Scanderbeg.htm

Also Greek children in Schools learned that Albanians are their brothers.
Greek historians wrote, after the Albanians liberated Greece, that Albanians are Ancient-Macedonians and Epirotans, close related to Greeks.
 
italy2leke1940albania3yj.jpg


Alexander the great on Albanian Lek.

Lek is what Albanians call Alexander. Leka I madh means Alexander the great.

Another thing, how can you claim a person that fought for Albanese (EPIRTOANS in Barleti)? Not Greeks or Slavs. haha so funny.

And Barleti was Albanian himself. He wrote about Albanian history and is one of the first Albanian historians. He called Albania for Epirus, Albanians for Epirotans and claimed Alexander and Pyrrhus as Albanese heroes. He called Skanderbeg prince of Epirus (Prince of Albania) and throned Skanderbeg as one of the national heroes with Alexander and Pyrro.

What is so hard to understand? There is no Greek connection to Skanderbeg, only a misunderstanding. But Albanians are closely related to Greeks.
 
Albanien If you want propaganda I will give many copy paste

Stop Bullshit nationalistic claims,
Kastrioti is an Albanian Hero But his origin is ubder search, cause had slavic and Greek blood also
about Alaxender he was an Argeiad
2 followers King were Illyrian only although Half of his Army was E Ydna
read sources, only 2 kings near Ohrid and west of Prespes lake the other,

now about the army of kastrioti search who was Aryanit-is
and who was his Wife and were Aryanit-is gather Army

nationalism must stay out, plz for God shake do not spam nationalistic Bullshit

lets keep this Thread in purely genetics and Historical and Linguistic Approach

the Dna relation among Greeks and Albanians as also the Linguistic similarity among Greeks and south Slavic is known
the Different Nations that Greeks and Albanians are is another subject,

now Albanien do you have any Data,
that can help the thread or some Data that can help search Elsewhere??????
I leave kastrioti and Alexander out,
As also land claims.
now until today Epirotans are Greeks and Epirus is Greece
and cams and Cammeria is the Albanian approach of Epirus,
but that has to do with 1200-1500 Ad when the Big master was Epirus Despotat,
 
Albanien
This is another topic.

What you write is the subject of Macedonians and I think it would be good to take part in the subject and you could contribute.
 
This thread is as stupid as it can get.

First of All the Albanian and Balkan E1b1b has nothing to do with the Moroccan E1b1b, the Balkan Albanian E1b1b is also called E V13 whereas the Berber one is called E M81, these haplogroups split from each other 20 000 Years ago even more.

If Albanians and Montenegrians are Related to Morrocans then clearly Polish and Russian people are Related to Siberian Brahami Indians which are high in R1a.

Secondly Haplogroup E V13 is Autochtonmous European it is even older than R1b and R1a in the Balkans, Haplogroup E V13 is the Genetic Marker of Neolithic Farmers which flooded the Balkans and Europe 10 000 - 15 000 Years ago.

If it wasn't for Haplogroup E V13 the Paleolithic Cave People and Carriers of I1b would be living in Caves.

Anyways this thread is stupid so here are my 2 cents :)

Of course, all E1b1b1 (Albanian, Moroccan etc ) are phylogenetically closely related even if they belong to different subclades. Indeed, all E1b1b1 people, whatever their suclades (E-V13, E-M81 etc ), share, according to the last Phylogenetic tree, a common male ancestor (E-M35) who lived in Africa "only" 20 000 years ago which is considered as "recent". In the phylogenetic tree E-M78 and E-M81 are "siblings" and their respective main subclades E-V13 and E-M183 are "1st cousin" so very close.

For comparison, the common ancestor between E-V13 and R1a, R1a, I is CT-M168 and lived about 70 000 years ago ! A huge difference of 50 000 years ...

So in any case E-V13, which arose in West Asia around 10 000 years ago, are much too young to be considered as "autochtonous European" as their ancestors still live in Africa 15 000 years ago. They are much closer phylogenetically to E-M81 or any other E1b1b1 subclades than they are to R1b or I...

By the way, Albanian phenotypes are much more similar to Berber phenotypes than to Swedish or Finnish phenotypes which is very likely explained by this.
 
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Barleti is Georija's biograph, a bishop that lived in Georgija's rule...In his book "Historia de vita et rebus gestis Scanderbegi" he refers to Kastriot only with "King of Epirus and Macedonia"

King of Epirus and Macedonia = Not Albania.

T. Spanducci, a writer from the 17th century in his book "Historia" wrote:
"Georgija Kastriot was respected not only by his tribe, the Mijak tribe but all other nations, even the Turks. His mother was Vojislava, a Macedonian woman, daughter of a nobleman from Polog, which of course is a part of Macedonia..."
And then he concludes:
"The Mijak tribe and all the other Slovenes have many reasons for the glorification and the singed songs about their hero Georgija Kastriot, because he fought for the protection of the slav culture, for the christian cross and for the freedom, but also because he had the most noble name from his kind - Georgija"

Mijak Tribe = "ethnic Macedonians" and Not Albanians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks



Charter written by the hand of Ivan Kastriot to the Monastery of Hilendar, on Sveta Gora, from 1426.

In this document, written in Old Church Slavic language the following is written.

"According to the unspeakable mercy of my ruler Christ, I, sinful and
unworthy, must not be mistaken to my Jesus Christ, Ivan Kastriot and my sons Stanisha and Riposha and Konstantin and Georgij. have contributed to the Holy monastery great Prechista of the ruler Lavri of Hilendar and I contributed the village Rodostushe and the church St.Prechista Bogorodica, also in that village Rodostushe and the village Trebishte.

The writing is confirmed with a seal with the name of Ivan Kastriot,
written in Cyrillic alphabet (See documents in: St.Novakovich, Legal
monuments./fifth book, pg. 467).

From the correspondence with the Dubrovnik Republic, having political,
military and trade relations, three letters have been saved written also in
Cyrillic alphabet. His Macedonian-Christian spirit and character is clearly seen from the letters. This spirit is mostly expressed in the letter from 25 February 1420, sent to the landowner Petar from Dubrovnik, which says:

"My faith in Christ as well as the faith of my sons Reposh, Stanislav,
Konstantin and Georgija. My Gjorgjian country, extending from Konjuh (now Elbasan) to Prizren, is maintained and cultivated by me, Mr. Ivan and my sons."


Language of Ivan and Georgija Kastriot = "Macedonian (Old church slavonic)" and Not Albanian.


End of discussion (Kastriot). Not relevant to continue about it here in this thread.
 
Show me were Kastrioti had Greek or Slavic blood? A northern Albanian of Greek blood? no chance. Maybe if he was from South.

Because Barleti called him Prince of Epirus? lol, I already explained that. Barleti called Albania for Epirus and Kastrioti as King of Epirus (King of Albania) You can read Minna Skafte's book translation. But this is a face palm for Greeks since it shows their so called history is actually Albanian history. lol.

No Propaganda at all. Is Barleti propaganda? Yet you mention him as a source... lol Barleti is one of Albanias first Historians.

@DejaVu So the Albanians of Macedonia (FYROM) are Slavs eh? His mother was Albanian from Macedonia. Since his name was Ivan this makes him a slav? lol. I have a German name, does this make me German?

As for the Majiak, I will come to that later. His family were actually originally Albanians from Kosovo, not Macedonia or Albania.

And if you read history, Barleti told him ''You are Albanian, not Turk'' that's when he and 100's of other Albanians changed sides and went on to Kruje. Not Macedonian Slav or Greek. But you can discuss his origin as much as you want.

Is Diber Slavic or Albanian?
 
Barleti is Georija's biograph, a bishop that lived in Georgija's rule...In his book "Historia de vita et rebus gestis Scanderbegi" he refers to Kastriot only with "King of Epirus and Macedonia"

King of Epirus and Macedonia = Not Albania.
Do you even read what I write? Albanians in medieval times claimed ancestry of Macedonia and Epirus. and we still do. Alexander the great is a national hero in Albania he was even used in our Lek. But since you don't understand this you think he was Greek or Slavic lol. Nice try lol. Because if Kastrioti is Greek/Slav then all Albanians are, because Barleti called All Albanians Macedonians/EPirotans. the word ''Shqiptar'' was not used at that time.

@Dejavu You're actually not claiming that Kastrioti was Slavic, you're claiming that he was half Slavic since his mother origin is allot discussed. His father was not from the Mijak tribe he was Albanian, his mother was from Macedonia but she was also Albanian, not from the Mijak tribe, where did you get this information from?

His Mother was probably from Debar (DIBER) not Mijak. Diber is Albanian populated place, the whole West Macedonia is Albanian populated, and even Skopje

During the time of the Albanian prince Gjergj Kastriot Skanderbeg, Debar played a major role in the rebellions of the Albanian population against the Ottomans. Debar region was the borderline between the Ottomans and the rebels between 1443 and 1465 and became an area of continuous conflict. There were two major battles near Debar April 29, 1444 and September 27, 1446, both ending as Ottoman defeats.
Not Maijak :)

As for his father, as I said again, he was Albanian from North Albania, while his grandfather Pal had origin from Kosovo and even fought in the battle of Kosovo. There is even a theory that Milosh Obili was Albanian from Kosovo, not a Slav. But that's another thing. Even if his mother was majiak this would make him only half Slavic half Albanian but the fact is that she was Albanian princess from Diber.

Was Moisi Arianit Golemi also a Majikak? lol. You get too excited Moisi Arianit Golemi was also Albanian from Diber (Debar)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moisi_Golemi

His father:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjergj_Arianit_Komneni

I'm just showing you Albanian heroes from Diber that allied with Skanderbeg, and not Maijak. Mention one Maijak warrior that allied with Kastrioti? none.

His father's origin was never disputed as he was King of Albania. Another theory about his mothers origin is that she was a Princess from the Pollog Valley, Tetov or Gostivar, which are both mostly Albanian populated places. Thus makes her Albanian Princess and not a Slav. Don't forget Albanians don't just live in Kosovo and Albania. Albanians have lived in Macedonia and Montenegro way before ottoman war.

Now time to quote Minna Skafte:

Just imagine what would happen if Alexander the Great returned! Or Pyrrhus, who in his day fought so brilliantly against the Romans! They would hardly be able to recognize their country, but would leave again full of contempt, because it was no longer a home of freedom as in their day. The present squalor is so overwhelming that the author fears he will be unable to convince his readers that Albania was glorious not only in antiquity, but also during the immediately preceding period. Freedom reigned supreme, where now slavery has spread. In those times the whole world looked to Epirus in admiration, where now the only question is whether fortune will never weary of plaguing the country.
Barleti repeatedly stresses the national aspect of his work. Scanderbeg is not only an impressive hero, but also the saviour of his native country. When he is compared with Alexander the Great and Pyrrhus, these are not arbitrarily chosen models from antiquity, but national heroes, for Alexander's Macedonia and Pyrrhus' Epirus are for Barleti synonymous with his own country. Mostly he calls it Epirus, but also often Albania. In a digression early in the work he elucidates his view upon the history of the nation based on the Roman historiographer Pompeius Trogus and his own contemporary, Pope Pius. Thus, the Albanians originally lived in Colchis on the Black Sea, from where they brought their language. They first emigrated to the Albanian hills near Rome. When Hercules as one of his twelve tasks had killed Geryones and was driving the latter’s cattle from Spain through Italy, he stayed for a time in the Albanian hills. From there the Albanians followed him, and they now live in Macedonia and the Peloponnese.
What remains of the Albanians in this Roman picture? The question is difficult to answer because of the lack of other sources. Barleti especially stresses their trustworthiness and love of freedom, and even though he describes his compatriots from the emigrant's point of view, he does not let himself grow sentimental. The tone is rather one of fond indulgence: they are not the most obvious defendants of Christianity. In a situation in which they accompany Scanderbeg and his army with ardent prayers for victory he writes: "Never before had God been so overwhelmed with prayers by the more bellicose than pious people of Epirus"!
Stop trying to manipulate our history, we claimed Epirotan and Macedonian ancestry before you even knew what it was. Now you like to call us Greeks and Slavs. lol.

Another thing, Skanderbegs family actually fled to Italy you can find the Arbereshe (Albanians) in Italy who are his descendants, they speak Albanian, Albanian culture, use the Albanian two headed eagle and are Catholics, not Orthodox Christians. Not Greeks or Slavs.

Arbereshe is what we called us before but we changed to Shqiptar. You can find Albanians in Ukraine, Greece, and Italy that escaped from Ottoman war. they still call themselves Albanians.

This thing about Arvanites ashamed of being Albanians is Greek propaganda. Because I know Arvanites it's a Greek word for Albanian/Arbereshe.

As for Macedonia, Tetov, Skopje and Diber have been Albanian cities way before Ottoman time, this has been historically recorded. Barleti mentions Albanians/Epirotans from Diber coming to help Kastrioti.

And don't forget Barleti was Albanian himself, he was the one who told Kastrioti you're Albanian and not a Turk. Because Kastrioti couldn't remember when he was kidnapped until he was reminded.

And beautiful how you mention Elbasan and Prizren, all Albanian cities way before Ottoman time.

As for Alexander the great, he has nothing to do with the Macedonian Slavs. Alexander's mother was originally from Epirus thus Alexander was Albanian. His cousin was Pyrrhus. Alexander was actually Epirotan rather than Macedonian. No one even knew who his father was since his mother never really slepped with Philip. So I would call Alexander Epirotan rather than Macedonian.

Epirotan = Albanian.

Dardanian, Macedonian, Epirotan = Albanian.

All Albanian kingdoms.

And I don't think Ancient Macedonians have any connection with the Slavs of Macedonia. Todays FYROM was originally inhabited by Ancient Albanians until the Slavic invasion. and Albanians were driven away from their land. But you still have Albanians living in Macedonia.

And don't talk about Barleti when you never read his book. Mina Skafte has translated/explained it very well. Anything you wonder, you can read from there.

King of Epirus = King of Albania

Only a brainwashed ingnorant idiot would deny the Epirotan ancestry of the Albanians.

Now Kastrioti lived and protected the castle of Kruje. Barleti was there also. Albanians gathered there. And you still talk about Slavic and Greek ancestry of Kastrioti? I don't even think you know what you are talking about yourself. You only get too excited when you hear the word Macedonian or Epirotan but sorry in this case, Ancient-Macedonian and Epirotan word is refered to Albanian. :)

As for Albanians and Berbers.. How about Greeks and Berbers then? lol

Or Serbs and Berbers? Since they are also very high in E...

Why is it always Albanian this Albanian that? So much anti-Albanian here..
How come Russia has E? How come Caucasus has E? ETC ETC.
How do you know E or J came from Egypt and to Albania?

E and J are actually the same, or close related which actually doesn't make Albanian a mixed race.
Can you explain the high J in Romanians?

Why does Albanian share so many words with Celtic?
Why does Albanian share so many words with Romanian? etc.

You're ignoring these facts. and focus only on a North African origin of Albanians. But don't forget, Albanians ruled Egypt. Mohammed Ali Pasha of Egypt was the founder of modern Egypt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_of_Egypt

And don't forget Greek settlements in Egypt, who were probably E carriers.

Anyway do these two guys look Albanian?

zinedine-zidane3365.jpg



karim-benzema.jpg


But still, even if Albanians have Berber origin, we are talking about thousands and thousands of years. Scottish people also claim Egyptian origin. some claim Sarmatian.
 
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@DeJavu Albanian is an Indo European language. Because Albanians are high E carriers this means we are north Africans? lol What about Greeks then? What are they?

Come on let's get real. Stop the hating.

Albanian is an Indo European language, just like Greek who also are high E carriers.

The fact is that it's disputed weather Albanian is Sentum or Satem here is a map:

Centum_Satem_map.png


As you can see, Albanian is in the middle of Centum and Satem. Blue is Centum, while Satem is in red. While some argue that Illyrian was Centum and some argue it was Satem, while others say Thracian was Satem close to Iranian. Some argue Thracians were Iranian settlers. But that is another topic. I don't know where you get your information from, but never has anyone disputed that Albanian is a indo European language, it's only discussed weather it's Centum or Satem.

And the fact that Albanian is distinct from other Indo-European language it still doesn't make it close to Afro-Asiatic or any other non European language, it just makes it pretty old. Albanian is older than Greek.

In 3200 BC, there were many, many languages spoken besides Sumerian and Egyptian, but they weren't fortunate enough to have a writing system. These languages are just as old. To take one interesting case, the Albanian language (spoken north of Greece) was not written down until about the 15th century AD, yet Ptolemy mentions the people in the first century BC.* The linguistic and archaeological evidence suggests that Albanians were a distinct people for even longer than that. So Albanian has probably existed for several millennia, but has only been written down for 500 years. With a twist of fate, Albanian might be considered very "old" and Greek pretty "new".

*See An Introduction to the Indo-European Languages by Philip Baldi.
 
Show me were Kastrioti had Greek or Slavic blood? A northern Albanian of Greek blood? no chance. Maybe if he was from South.

Because Barleti called him Prince of Epirus? lol, I already explained that. Barleti called Albania for Epirus and Kastrioti as King of Epirus (King of Albania) You can read Minna Skafte's book translation. But this is a face palm for Greeks since it shows their so called history is actually Albanian history. lol.

No Propaganda at all. Is Barleti propaganda? Yet you mention him as a source... lol Barleti is one of Albanias first Historians.

@DejaVu So the Albanians of Macedonia (FYROM) are Slavs eh? His mother was Albanian from Macedonia. Since his name was Ivan this makes him a slav? lol. I have a German name, does this make me German?

As for the Majiak, I will come to that later. His family were actually originally Albanians from Kosovo, not Macedonia or Albania.

And if you read history, Barleti told him ''You are Albanian, not Turk'' that's when he and 100's of other Albanians changed sides and went on to Kruje. Not Macedonian Slav or Greek. But you can discuss his origin as much as you want.

Is Diber Slavic or Albanian?

Fabrication explanation with no evidence. If you continue making everything to fit in as Albania or Albanians then you must find psychological help because you got big identity problems. If you cant get this in your head then I will repost same information until you got real evidence.

Mijak tribe = ethnic Macedonians
Language = Old church slavonic (Macedonian)
Country or place = Epirus and Macedonia

NOBODY MENTIONING ANYTHING ABOUT ALBANIA OR ALBANIANS (EPIRUS IS NOT ALBANIA).

FACT!
 
Do you even read what I write? Albanians in medieval times claimed ancestry of Macedonia and Epirus. and we still do. Alexander the great is a national hero in Albania he was even used in our Lek. But since you don't understand this you think he was Greek or Slavic lol. Nice try lol. Because if Kastrioti is Greek/Slav then all Albanians are, because Barleti called All Albanians Macedonians/EPirotans. the word ''Shqiptar'' was not used at that time.

@Dejavu You're actually not claiming that Kastrioti was Slavic, you're claiming that he was half Slavic since his mother origin is allot discussed. His father was not from the Mijak tribe he was Albanian, his mother was from Macedonia but she was also Albanian, not from the Mijak tribe, where did you get this information from?

His Mother was probably from Debar (DIBER) not Mijak. Diber is Albanian populated place, the whole West Macedonia is Albanian populated, and even Skopje

Not Maijak :)

As for his father, as I said again, he was Albanian from North Albania, while his grandfather Pal had origin from Kosovo and even fought in the battle of Kosovo. There is even a theory that Milosh Obili was Albanian from Kosovo, not a Slav. But that's another thing. Even if his mother was majiak this would make him only half Slavic half Albanian but the fact is that she was Albanian princess from Diber.

Was Moisi Arianit Golemi also a Majikak? lol. You get too excited Moisi Arianit Golemi was also Albanian from Diber (Debar)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moisi_Golemi

His father:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjergj_Arianit_Komneni

I'm just showing you Albanian heroes from Diber that allied with Skanderbeg, and not Maijak. Mention one Maijak warrior that allied with Kastrioti? none.

His father's origin was never disputed as he was King of Albania. Another theory about his mothers origin is that she was a Princess from the Pollog Valley, Tetov or Gostivar, which are both mostly Albanian populated places. Thus makes her Albanian Princess and not a Slav. Don't forget Albanians don't just live in Kosovo and Albania. Albanians have lived in Macedonia and Montenegro way before ottoman war.

Now time to quote Minna Skafte:

Stop trying to manipulate our history, we claimed Epirotan and Macedonian ancestry before you even knew what it was. Now you like to call us Greeks and Slavs. lol.

Another thing, Skanderbegs family actually fled to Italy you can find the Arbereshe (Albanians) in Italy who are his descendants, they speak Albanian, Albanian culture, use the Albanian two headed eagle and are Catholics, not Orthodox Christians. Not Greeks or Slavs.

Arbereshe is what we called us before but we changed to Shqiptar. You can find Albanians in Ukraine, Greece, and Italy that escaped from Ottoman war. they still call themselves Albanians.

This thing about Arvanites ashamed of being Albanians is Greek propaganda. Because I know Arvanites it's a Greek word for Albanian/Arbereshe.

As for Macedonia, Tetov, Skopje and Diber have been Albanian cities way before Ottoman time, this has been historically recorded. Barleti mentions Albanians/Epirotans from Diber coming to help Kastrioti.

And don't forget Barleti was Albanian himself, he was the one who told Kastrioti you're Albanian and not a Turk. Because Kastrioti couldn't remember when he was kidnapped until he was reminded.

And beautiful how you mention Elbasan and Prizren, all Albanian cities way before Ottoman time.

As for Alexander the great, he has nothing to do with the Macedonian Slavs. Alexander's mother was originally from Epirus thus Alexander was Albanian. His cousin was Pyrrhus. Alexander was actually Epirotan rather than Macedonian. No one even knew who his father was since his mother never really slepped with Philip. So I would call Alexander Epirotan rather than Macedonian.

Epirotan = Albanian.

Dardanian, Macedonian, Epirotan = Albanian.

All Albanian kingdoms.

And I don't think Ancient Macedonians have any connection with the Slavs of Macedonia. Todays FYROM was originally inhabited by Ancient Albanians until the Slavic invasion. and Albanians were driven away from their land. But you still have Albanians living in Macedonia.

And don't talk about Barleti when you never read his book. Mina Skafte has translated/explained it very well. Anything you wonder, you can read from there.

King of Epirus = King of Albania

Only a brainwashed ingnorant idiot would deny the Epirotan ancestry of the Albanians.

Now Kastrioti lived and protected the castle of Kruje. Barleti was there also. Albanians gathered there. And you still talk about Slavic and Greek ancestry of Kastrioti? I don't even think you know what you are talking about yourself. You only get too excited when you hear the word Macedonian or Epirotan but sorry in this case, Ancient-Macedonian and Epirotan word is refered to Albanian. :)

As for Albanians and Berbers.. How about Greeks and Berbers then? lol

Or Serbs and Berbers? Since they are also very high in E...

Why is it always Albanian this Albanian that? So much anti-Albanian here..
How come Russia has E? How come Caucasus has E? ETC ETC.
How do you know E or J came from Egypt and to Albania?

E and J are actually the same, or close related which actually doesn't make Albanian a mixed race.
Can you explain the high J in Romanians?

Why does Albanian share so many words with Celtic?
Why does Albanian share so many words with Romanian? etc.

You're ignoring these facts. and focus only on a North African origin of Albanians. But don't forget, Albanians ruled Egypt. Mohammed Ali Pasha of Egypt was the founder of modern Egypt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_of_Egypt

And don't forget Greek settlements in Egypt, who were probably E carriers.

Anyway do these two guys look Albanian?

zinedine-zidane3365.jpg



karim-benzema.jpg


But still, even if Albanians have Berber origin, we are talking about thousands and thousands of years. Scottish people also claim Egyptian origin. some claim Sarmatian.

There are alot of double standards here. I'll just show you one of them;


"King of Epirus = King of Albania
As for Alexander the great, he has nothing to do with the Macedonian Slavs. Alexander's mother was originally from Epirus thus Alexander was Albanian.Dardanian, Macedonian, Epirotan = Albanian.
All Albanian kingdoms.
As for Albanians and Berbers.. How about Greeks and Berbers then? lol
"

how about Albanians as greek? if its so easily interchangeble?

If you're going make claims like this you better have reasoning, because there is nothing to say epirus was albanian. There is nothing to say macedon was albanian, there is overwhilming evidence they were both greek. You're evidence is based on hats? what evidence is there of this?

The history of albanians is very foggy and uncertain because there is very little written, but don't do a FYROM and just distort history, you would be no better than dejavu. History is a science like other fields of study, you do the reasearch then make conclusions based on the reasearch, you can make hypothesis but you have to change it based on the evidence. Don't make claims then try to forcefully make the evidence fit, which is what FYROM does, as they favor some pieces of information and throw out others.
 
Elias2 - what haplogroup are you, have you done a test (sub-saharan)? If you dont know anything about history or genetics, get lost, we dont need clowns here.
 
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