Religion Christianity and Astrology: Joined Together

[strongvoicesforward]

The Bible is not historical and many of the figures, including Jesus, the deciples, or even older characters from the OT are astrological symbols and myths (some created by the Jewish tribes and others borrowed from nearby cultures).

The stories and lessons in the Bible were meant to be allegorical, and not historical. Gnostics knew they were not real characters or that Jesus was never carnalized in flesh. However, they lost out to those who wanted to historicize the the stories.

Ancient man, unlike us, during the night had no TV, computer games, newspapers, etc... to occupy his time. In all likelihood as nomads moved across large land masses and as they camped for the night, they probably idled a lot of time away on their backs peering into the celestial skies. Doing so night after night, year after year, generation after generation, undoubtedly they became quite intimate with the stars and their positions. In fact, their lives may have depended on it, knowing when to begin to move to other lands or how to navigate ships if they ventured away from site of land, when to begin the harvest or planting.

They also noticed how the stars and constellations shifted in relation to one another. Naturally when things good or bad happened to them or their clan, they began to take notice of where the stars were at a particular time. Soon, stories were woven to explain things based on the interlatonship of the celestial bodies and the happenings on Earth. The next step was to personalize these bodies with names and personalities. Those who became expert at understanding where the stars would be at a particular time in the future became the priests and then the intermediaries between the common people and the gods.

Astrology is born and soon after on its heels so is dogmatic religion. We can still see evidence of that from the Bible.

 

[Revenant]

It's possible, although more elaboration is needed to convince me of it's plausibility.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Take a look at the zodiac signs; there are 12, and like them their are 12 deciples of Jesus. Each is built upon a particular month borrowed from older religions/cultures that also had 12 deciples or god heros given to each month. We can see this in Roman, Greek, Egyptian and Persian belief systems or their myths.

Take a look at Scorpio. The Scorpian sign is that of Judas. When the summer sun (Jesus) is weakening the Scorpian (Judas) moves to supplant it from its position bringing it into its last days of the year.

Also, look at Jesus and John the Baptist. They were born six months apart from one another. It had to be because one represented the Vernal equinox (March 25)and the other the Autumnal Equinox. Also their nativities are represented (June 24 the sun at its highest when its declinition decreases and Dec. 25 when it begins its ascending arc).The clue to this astrological play is seen in John 3:20 where the writer makes the mythological character John to say:

?gHe must increase, but I must decrease.?h​

And, it was in the 30th year at the Baptism of Jesus when the sun (Jesus) enters into the Age of Aquarius (the Water Bearer) who is John. John Baptises Jesus because he bears the water because Jesus (i.e. the sun) passes into the age of Aquarius.

 

[Mycernius]

I would say that Judaism and Astrology are more closely linked than Christianity. Remember a large portion of the bible is Jewish, not Christian in origin. By the time Christianity was established astrology had been doing well for hundreds of years, plus most of the NT is about how to follow Christianity in all the letters from Paul, Jude and James.
Another point is that large parts of the OT are historical, abiet highly biased. The Jews did move into Egypt and then move back out. They did war against other tribes in the promised land and the Kings of Israel can be found outside Biblical texts. The destruction and rebuilding of the temple are historical. The OT was used to keep a people together and keep their traditions alive, which it still does today. Fair enough other tracts are from earlier myths of the Jews and other people that were absorbed into their society, but that is not unusual. After all the Romans did it with Greek, Egyptian and Celtic Gods.
I amnot denying that there are references within the NT that can be found in earlier myths, infact I did a long post on Jesus the myth, but astrology is not the only myth or idea that can be found in the OT.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

I would say that Judaism and Astrology are more closely linked than Christianity.

Only in so much that Judaism is older than Christianity and closer on the timeline to when a lot of the astrology came into existence. Christianity however, has not divorced itself from the OT and use it as their foundation.

My wife may be 8 months pregnant, and her sister may be six months pregnant. Sure, one is closer to birth, or going backwards towards conception -- but they are both pregnant.

 

[Mitsuo]

Great theory SVF!

And congratulations on the incoming child!

I would post something about this, but I need more reading to do.

Later!

 

[strongvoicesforward]

In the ancient world, two cults often held sway over the people, and the priests of each vied for loyal followers and tried to seek dominance over the other cult. These two astrological cults were the solar cult and lunar cult. Accordingly, the sun and the moon were each given their 12 deciples to follow them on their journey to assist them -- 12 hours of day for the sun, and likewise, 12 hours of day for the moon and darkness (again paralleling the zodiac).

The snake held a prominant totem position in the original beliefs and myths of ancient people. Death was feared and birth was celebrated. A snake seemed to have the ability to be ?greborn?h throughout its life due to the constant shedding of its skin at certain points during the year. After the shedding, a new glistening body appeared -- hence the snake was seen as immortal and associated with eternal life.

What is more eternal than the celestial bodies above? -- indeed, what is more eternal than the sun and the moon? What happened in the heavens was believed to manifest and play itself out on Earth -- therefore, some ancient cults assigned the sun and the moon to the eyes of the serpent watching down on us. Serpens constellation represented the whole heavens as the body of the snake which flowed through the sky behind the eyes.

However, the sun cultists wanted to villify the moon cults, therefore, they made the serpent the sole rular of darkness -- hence the night, in addition to the wild beasts and dangers associated with it, came to be even more bad or fearful because it was ruled by the serpent (though who was viewed by many to be good for its immortality -- nevertheless could kill with poison), the ruler of darkness. To further condemn the moon cults and gain prominance, the Priest writers of the sun cult in the earliest Hebrewic traditions, assigned the deception of man to the moon cult and divorced the one eye (moon) from the other eye (the sun) and cast the snake (i.e. serpent) as the reason for all of man's troubles -- the deception of him and falling from grace. Here we see Priest writers gradually trying to move away from the astrological roots of their mythical stories.

 

[Mars Man]

I wonder where this theory came from? Could you please give an author? A book or paper title? MM

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Hi MM,

Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you. Today was very busy for me.

MM, I am not for sure who came up with this theory. I am not even sure if it is a ?etheory?f because it is self evident after one is attentive to looking for astrological signs in the Bible. There are numerous writings on astrology and the Bible and I have read magazine articles, newspaper clippings, and books on the topic over the years. I was quite surprised to see that you seemed to respond to the thread as if it were the first time you had stumbled upon the astrotheological connection to the Bible and religion. Mycernius seems to be somewhat familiar with it, and I just naturally thought with your deep interest in the Bible, your readings over the years would have let you know about this aspect. Is this actually the first time you heard of this?

I didn`t have a book in front of me when I was writing those posts. Usually, I try to assmilate information from book readings. I don`t think I could cite the exact book I gleamed the information that General Custer was killed by the Sioux, and probably it is likewise with this because I have read that info in more than one source over the years. But, here are some titles I recall thathave read in the past (not a complete list) that had to deal with astrology and the Bible/religion. I am sure that if you want the author, a quick look on Amazon will provide them.

The Origin and Evolution of Religion

The Sun Book

Gnostic and Historic Christianity

Astrology of the Old Testement

The Christ Conspiracy

The Great Myth of the Sun Gods

Animal Contract

And MM, be sure to run a search on your search engine with the key word ?gastrotheology.?h There really are so many sources on this topic, I have no idea where it first came from. I am guessing from long ago and my present knowledge on it is a compilation of all the sources listed above and other literature plus the numerous web sites I had visited on the topic to learn about it -- of course, some seemingly more scholarly than others, but nothing that requires one to nit pick with a Strong or Concordance dictionary at everything.

Btw, just in reading the Bible, haven`t you ever noticed any glaring symbolisms to astrology?

After reading a number of sources, a lot of it just sticks in my head. To me, assimilating it and learning how to put it in your own words paraphrased for discussion lets me retain it better, rather than just regurgitating the exact same thing someone else says by always quoting. If I can`t explain it well enough, then I will quote -- or if I do have the book right there in front of me. But, that is not fun discussing by looking at book, computer screen, book, computer screen, type type type over and over. Much better to digest it.

 

[Mars Man]

Just a quickie here before going to the uni.

It's not that I am NOT aware of astrological mentionings and a degree of symbolism in OT of astrological matters, but the 'reading' (and I'm using this here in the manner used in Biblical Literature circles) is 'theory based' when presented as has been done in above posts. The usage on non-canonical texts when supporting a 'reading' of canonical texts is always theory or premise building in nature.

As is common, yet which is really a shame, many writers and theorist put the lean of voice in their writings in absolute positive--it's a style designed to help convence the mind of the reader. It can be most misleading at times, at the best.

The evidence for astrological 'reading' in the canonical and most non-canonical texts is very thin, when taken on the broader perspective. That the use of numerology in the OT may have lapsed over from older Zoroastriaism(sp? no time to check) is possible--only to what degree, is theory--one among a number. I'll get back when I can.

ps Thanks, but no need to apologize for the timeliness, or lack of, I cannot post much these days any way, myself. MM

 

[strongvoicesforward]

The mythos of Christianity carried over from Judaism and even older belief systems is a continuance of Sun Worship. Jesus is in fact the Sun, though now unrecognized by Christians of today -- due to the church`s almost near successful attempt to hide the true origins of their cult.

In fact, the Sun was believed by the ancients to die and resurrect every evening and morning respectively. It also followed the resurrection of life with every new spring and then once again death, as winter seemed to suppress life.

The Astro-Sun worship is still seen with Easter (the Vernal Equinox). Where does the sun arise (resurrect) from? -- The East, or Eastern sky. Why doesn`t God (i.e. Jesus, i.e. the Sun) arise on the same historical date every year, if in fact he rose historically on a particular date? -- He does not do so because the Vernal Equinox changes from year to year and hence so does the Christian observance of Jesus` resurrection does (i.e. the Sun`s Vernal Equinox).

Easter changes every year after the Vernal Equinox to land on the first Sunday after the first full moon. So, we see Jesus is not really a historical person, but once again an allegory for the Sun in its relation to the Earth and the seasons heralding the coming of Spring and renewal. In other words, Jesus is not the Son of God -- he is the SUN, merely the allegorical object of astrotheology.

The East had special meaning to the tribes that held to Sun worship. After all, it is from the Eastern lands of India that the first aggressive Abrahamic tribes moved out from. In addition, the Christians carry this affinity towards the East(the birthplace and resurrection of the Sun) by making the three wise men (i.e. the Magi) come from the East bearing gifts. In other words, they come from the land of the Sun where it ressurrects everyday bringing gifts to the son/Sun -- a ray of Light (baby Jesus, son of God/Sun) emenating from the Sun.

That is what is meant when it says in the Bible all the Lands and Nations of the World heard the Word -- ONLY Light can penetrate to every place on the Earth as the Sun travels across the sky/heavens. Light emenating from the Sun is the allegorical symbol and meaning for Jesus because He is the word that could only be heard by all nations. Actually not heard, but proclaimed by light which reaches all people.

And why is Jesus made to be a Nazarene? Because Nazarenes got their strenght from their hair and were forbidden to cut it. Their hair symbolized the rays of the Sun (i.e. the Light) and it, too, was Samson, who was a Nazerene who got his strength from his hair -- or from God (i.e. the Sun, the Light).

Samson was decieved by his trust of a woman which caused his downfall (sunsetting). Likewise, Jesus was deceived through the trust of his deciple Judas. It was just ?gNight?h (the villification of the Lunar Cult) which allegorically sheered Samson of his rays (hair) and therefore he weakened and was killed for that day as night decended (i.e. the Sun fell from the sky). Paralleling that, it was Jesus who was deceived by Judas (i.e. night or at the bidding of the prince of darkness -- in order to villify the Lunar Cult) that caused Jesus to decend (i.e. the Sun to fall from the sky) just as the sun does when night is pressing in.

Allegory and astrology.

 

[Mars Man]

The mythos of Christianity carried over from Judaism and even older belief systems is a continuance of Sun Worship.

I very seriously doubt that this thesis has authentic enough hard evidence backing it up to win any majority vote on its trustworthiness.

So taking that as my hypothesis, let's work on verifying this thesis, upon which and from which the resulting statements come.

Would you be interested in that?

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Hi MM,

I PMed you about the above. I also addressed your inquiry about where "it came from" a few posts above. Sorry if that doesn`t satisfy you.

As for the "majority vote" -- I am dead sure a billion plus Christians will condemn it at worse, and dismiss it at best. And within that billion, I am sure the majority of so called Christian scholars or status quo scholars, too, will wrinkle their noses at it. The majority is never a litmus test for what is true or not, but it can be a lynch mob. Just look at blacks and Jews who came up short in the majority of their respective societies.

Now, if you want to keep discussing sources or mechanical points as to how discussion should go about, please PM me so that the thread can proceed. If you want to go against actual points I post, then by all means list your objections and the exact reason why. I welcome that.

btw, everything written above was done so by me and not lifted from a text -- if that (plagerism) is what you were implying.

Thank you.

 

[Mars Man]

The PM was a surprize...wow...I didn't expect one from you at all, but it was nice. At the same time, a PM can be used to keep things out of public view, and that may have been a portion of the usage there, I feel. (note the value of the words, 'portion' and 'feel'.)

The majority is not always right. A well to be kept tool in the toolbox of investigation, and one which I have always kept at hand and used often enough. Your appeal for that principle here is applauded, and I will join you in applying it. However, I will press that it be applied fairly, and at any instance, and on each and every point of data, claim, premise, and hypothesis or theory.

There should be no need whatsoever to discuss machanics; it should be an automatic process which needs no discussion.

Now, one very, very MAJOR matter at hand--and I hope I made that prominent enough--is that you, strongvoicesforward san, have appeared to have already, and prematurely dug trenches of warfare when that is not the case at all !!!!!!!!!

This, in itself, is a reflection of a frame of mind that stifles discussion. Firstly we have to investigate all base data that can and will be used, and having collected those, discuss or argue their individual values before moving on towards the aggregate. At this point, I am working with you, not against you--you see? We each have our separate and contrasting hypothesis (or even theories, if you will), but we are working together to verify them. We are not fighting against each other, and we should both consider our exercise as a learning process, free of all necessity to insist on surrender of postition by the other party. This is of the utmost importance, for smooth and non-pressured discussion--especially in the communicative format that we are presently using.

I look forward to the ensuing discussion and research.

(No. No such thought had come to mind...please do make an effort to refrain from attaching negative impetus to other's statements unless it is very clearly the case--because as you well know, and have stated so yourself on the thread that Mikawa Ossan had started on your behalf, we cannot know the intent of the communicator beyond the words and context made known to us.)

 

[strongvoicesforward]

The Zodiac is depicted in a circle. How many degrees are there in a circle? -- 360. Divided by ?g5?h (signifying 5 degree intervals in the circle), and the result is ?g72?h.

The geneology in Genesis 10 is not an actual listing of father to son births. It is a list of gods (or perhaps great warriors or tribal chiefs that were dispatched -- perhaps in order) that the Abrahamic tribe moving out of India adopted after conquering and displacing other people living in those areas, or from other cultures nearby whose contact with, perhaps even peaceful, resulted in a spill over affect through trade or other association. Rather than summerilly dismiss and forget them, they villified them or in some cases elevated them and wove them into their history.

In Genesis 10 there are only 70 powers listed, but including Israel and God, it becomes 72 (or an alternative, Hebrew language/Language of God`s chosen people and Aramic,).

Therefore, each deciple or lower god of the zodiac 12 gods
are aportioned 5 degrees each of the Zodiac. The number 72 being important, is also seen when Moses and God are added to the 70 elders in the wilderness.

How long does it take for the equinox to move 1 degree? -- Answer: 72 years. What other advanced ancient society had an elevated character with 72 desciples to attend to him? Confucius did so, too, in China -- a country not ignorant of the constellations. By the way, Islam also has within the martyrs of Karbala -- 72 martyrs.

The processional 72 year progress of the equinox for each degree was venerated in beliefs of the ancient Jews who spawned the Christian religion. Traces of it and other astrological beliefs are still observable within the pages of the Bible. It is not numerology that the Judaic-Christian Bible is built on -- it is astrology given wing from ancients realizing the astrological movements of the stars. The mythical Luke even makes sure that the mythical Jesus Sun God, too, retains his 72 needed helpers as he goes about accomplishing what he wants done.

Luke 10.1
After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.​

 

[Mars Man]

The conclusion that you are working on building up to, is the following:

The Bible is not historical and many of the figures, including Jesus, the deciples, or even older characters from the OT are astrological symbols and myths (some created by the Jewish tribes and others borrowed from nearby cultures).

And one point within that building process is stated as follows:

The stories and lessons in the Bible were meant to be allegorical, and not historical.

The first thing we should look into, therefore is the evidence to show us the intentions in the minds of the authors of these works. I suggest that we start with the latter, and work backwards.

The first writings to look at would then be those exemplars which can be dated to the 2nd~4th centuries.

Now, you first proposed the hypothesis, so you have the burden of showing your proofs first. You don't go and say anything you want to, for whatever reason you may have to feel like saying it, and then charge that anyone who challenges it has to provide disproof for proof which you have not yet shown. ??낵?????肢???܂??I (yoroshiku onegaishimasu=please consider)

ps. I'll get to things as I can, I am very busy these days. AND strongvoicesforward san, if we can discuss similarities in work backgrounds or things related to restaurant service and such casually, without high pitched emotional leans in our statements, then we should surely be able to do so when talking about any belief-system, religion, science, or any 'ism' for that matter. AND it's not a matter of my tiring out, but rather--whether you want to believe it or not--a matter of time allocation for efficiency; that's all. :wave:

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Oh, that Jesus Sun God and his cross! -- hanging there in all his torment.

Yes, the bane of the cross. Jesus did not make the cross sacred. The cross had been a sacred symbol before Jesus. Ancient crosses often had a circle in the middle which symbolized the Sun and cosmic wheel. Being in the center of the cross it meant that the two arms of the cross were equal signifying 12/12 hours per day and night.

In addition, it symbolized the crossover of the Sun into the Vernal Equinox (therefore Jesus was made to suffer death on the cross so he could crossover into the heavenly world i.e. resurrect i.e. the Sun ushers in Spring -- new life for the new season).

Christian art depicting Jesus on the cross did not come about until the 5th to 6th century, long after Sun cults were already using the cross. Before that, Jesus was depicted as the Good Shepherd, often with a lamb, sheep, or ram on his back).

In fact, early church fathers innitially refused to use the cross in depicting Jesus?f death because of its Pagan roots. However, the early Church knew the value of cooping other religions?f symbols in order to steal believers to them so that theirs could grow larger and stronger. They did that by changing the Sabbath to Sunday (the day that the Sun worshippers rested and worshipped on), and they then eventually gave in and adopted the Pagan symbol -- the cross -- as paraphanalia for THEIR Sun God worship.

It is fitting however, because Jesus and the early Jews and Christians were also merely Sun Worshippers -- even if some of them forgot it and began to believe the priest stories of fraudulent/forged historicity and false carnalization of their God.

 

[Mars Man]

P45 is what I will present to look into just what the writings by those leaders of the late first to early second centuries may have had in mind when talking about the belief-system they were propagating. This codex is from considered to date back to the early second to very late first century.

The letter written to those who had lived in Thessalonica is understood to be the earliest surviving exemplar of Christian works, so I suggest we look at it first.

Please forgive my lack (and if someone could show me how, I'd greatly appreciate it...me and my high tech skills in an IT world...hee, hee) but the a view of that document had been given on page 11 of the 'Biblical Texts' thread in posts number 259 and 261. ( It may be helpful to look at post #258, first and second paragraphs, as well.)

I would like to quote professor Dominika A. Kurek-Chomycz of Katholicke Universiteit Leuven in Belgium, as it tends to back up a very important point: "What is more, since we do not have access to the minds of the copyists, which could allow us to establish their intentions and motives for introducing particular changes, we can only speculate with greater or lesser probability, on why and how certain readings have come about." [Is There an "Anti-Priscan" Tendency in the Manuscripts? Some Textual Problems with Prisca and Azuila SBL Vol 125, No. 1; (spring 2006) p108]

By looking at 1 Thessalonians, it is clear enough that the frame of mind of the writer is set in a 'historical mode of understanding'.

1:1~3--Some time has passed since the author had come in contact with the recipients of the letter. Especially to be noted is the verses 8~10 area: (my translation basically) In every place the faith of YOU towards the god (definite article generally implies 'the true god' in Hebrewism) has itself gone out and as so we have no need to say anything for they (those in Macedonia and Achaia) keep reporting back to us the way of our entering among YOU and how YOU turned away from idols towards the god, to slave for a living and true god and to wait for the son of him from the heavens whom he (e.g., god) from the dead (ones) has raised up Jesus the one drawing us to himself out of the wrath which is coming.

For the idea on the 'wrath' please go over verses 4:15~17; 5:2~6.

Please excuse my shortness here for now, I have a lot to do today actually, and my time is up. I will continue from here as soon as I can.

Please do reply to my posts here on this thread, in posts on this thread rather than by PM. . . then everyone can see the developement. Thanks.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

MM, you haven`t addressed any of the astrological points brought up. Are you going to just grab on to the "historicity" of the Bible/Jesus or other characters without rebutting the astrological points? If so, perhaps a different thread may be warranted. In fact, I was researching if there were perhaps another thread like that already, or related to that [went so far as to PM Mycernius on that], because eventhough I do doubt the historicity of the Bible in the OP, I used and set up the thread to focus on the astrological points of the Bible. I do welcome you to rebut those astrological points, but you with this post just completely ignored it.

Are we going to just talk around one another?

If you are reluctant to start a thread exclusively dealing with "historicity" then I will acquiesce and accept it here -- but the flow of this thread will become disjointed at times -- perhaps that is a goal of yours (just musing on it) as is the purpose of obfuscation.

Mycernius had began quite a good thread HERE that your historicity argument, which is avoiding the astrological points could deal with.

I will also point out on that thread by Mycernius that you had promised to get back to that discussion but never did. You posted your intention to get back to it on 2005, August 31. You still haven`t gotten back to it. Have you abandoned it and bumped this thread up above all the other threads you have "promised to get back to"? If so, why? I count a great backlog of threads you had said you`d get back to and never actually did.

Also, if you create your own thread or continue with this line on Mycernius' thread, a particular other Christian could join in for comment, for he is prohibitted from posting on threads started by me, as I, too, am prohibited from posting on threads created by him. You could do him a small favor by making your posts in a thread, either of your own making or on Mycernius' already existing excellent thread (which should have elicited much more interest when it appeared), so that he and I could both join in on it [though we could not post to one another]. If you refuse to do so, then you are basically keeping that member locked out of the discussion. Creating your own, would also allow you to give a title that more appropriately defines what you are focusing on -- since it is not astrology or the refutation of its use and significance in the Bible.

*btw, I will PM you when I feel the topic of what I want to say is not focused on the thread or if it is about mechanics which I feel some readers may not be interested in reading. It will allow the thread to stay focused. I have come to learn and sense what is better said in a PM due to sensitivities of others and how others due to prejudices for or against members may judge comments not on fairness, but on bias. I will try to avoid those situations as red flags whenever I feel they are cropping up and do so by utilizing a PM.

Again, may I remind you, the thread is mainly about historicity or lack of it as seen through the influence of astrology. Please stay on topic as much as you are able to. Thanks.

Also, I think there was also a thread title somewhere something like, "Was Jesus a Real Person?" Perhaps that, too, would help you in placing how you want to discuss historicity in the most appropriate thread.

But, like I said, if you refuse those suggestions for a larger and more general format with more participants (remember the one locked out), then I will probably just go along with agreeing to your comments being posted here (eventhough they are forking off from the main topic) and keep the other person locked out of the discussion. That is fine by me.

You choose.

 

[Mars Man]

Thanks for the suggestion there SVF, it does make some sense in one way--namely getting sabro in on the conversation--but I would wonder on the bulkiness of it. You and I, and maybe some others who may want to follow would have to follow the two threads together. going back and forth to verify points and whatnot.

I will consider what such a thing might be like-- it's advantages and disadvantages--but the topic would not be merely on the historicity of the intent of NT writers and others, but how evidences in the writings towards the most obvious intents of the several documents, weaken any theory that they were writing allegorical in the greater picture. However, if you can see it or not I do not know, that exactly fits the theme of this thread--so. . .

Ok...let me see if I have everything straight. (and that you do too)
In your #1, you wrote the following: ...many of the figures, including Jesus, the [disciples]...are astrological symbols... Is this not true?

In the second paragraph of that post, you claimed, and I quote: The stories and lessons in the Bible were meant to be allegorical, and not historical. Is that not true?

In your #9 you stated, and I quote: I'm not even sure if it is a 'theory' because it is self evident after one is attentive to looking for astrological signs in the Bible. Is this not true?

Now please go to my #16, look at it carefully and thoughtfully, then come back and tell me if I did not say that I would present evidence dealing with these claims. I will post this much for now....