Free and independent Kurdistan is coming soon.

Perhaps you should read my post again. I believe you will see that it was Goga who identified Germany and Europe in general as Neo-Nazi. I neither said nor implied any such thing.

He furthermore had waxed poetic about the wonderful Russian liberation of Europe after World War II. I corrected his obviously uninformed statements with a little historical background.

I don't know what I'd call the leaders of Russia today. A toxic oligarchy composed of the Russian Mafia and ex KGB officers who are plundering their country and want to do the same to others? That's a mouthful. I'll have to think of something better.

What I do know is that anybody who thinks that ex KGB officer Putin has become a social democrat who wants to be a benevolent friend to Europe has perhaps been smoking something other than tobacco.

What I also know is that leftist Europeans in general are dangerously naive, in my opinion. Or perhaps they're willfully stupid. I can't make up my mind.They still haven't learned the lessons of history, that's for sure. The left was sold a bill of goods. I know it's tough to swallow but it's true. Nor did the fascists have the answer. Millions upon millions dead because of two failed ideologies. Even more millions lost in World War I for virtually NOTHING.

America saved Europe twice in one century from their blood letting binges, three times if you count Kosovo. Who are Europeans to condescend to America or to hold themselves up as some sort of models?

As for your subtle insult, I won't respond in kind. I'll just say that I'd put my education and my intellect up against anyone you care to name. I'd also just mention that people tend to resort to personal insult when they have no substantive argument.

I tried not to insult you. I really thought you know better.

I think you have an idealized view of your county's history. This is no insult. Most people have an idealized view of their own country's history.

We were successfully cooperating with Russia for some time already and Russia is our neighbor. Suddenly, we are being told that Russia is evil and Putin is a boogeyman (don't start with Ukraine, because this was an evil intrigue for this purpose, where Putin was surprised and forced to act, and where victims and perpetrators were swapped). Unfortunately, also not all european elites are pro-European. I think that enough people here already know this and they represent a significant obstacle for them.

Isolationism is not left wing but right-wing, and as an ideology originates in USA. Those conservatives who want war usually are acting because they believe it is in their own interest, not because of interventionism which is an idealistic stance (although many use idealistic excuses). Typical idealistic interventionism is left-wing, like Clinton, Blair, Power, Sanders, Soros, Glucksman, Henrí-Levy, many european Green Parties and most Trotzkyists. The Soviet Union itself was interventionist until the late 1940s. I personally prefer the conservative isolationists, in case you thought I'm left-wing.

There are also imperialists among left-wingers, who pretend to be idealists. There are anti-imperialists among the conservatives (libertarians, paleo-conservatives, ...). Pacifism is usually more prevalent among left-wingers. Some details are certainly debatable, yet I think I summed it up correctly overall.

Regarding being nazi, I don't know, if someone supports neo-nazis and islamists abroad, is he a neo-nazi then? I think it depends on the perspective. I would say no, because actual nazi-ideology is not necessarily shared. Hitler also was supported by many who merely sought their own benefit, not because they shared nazi-ideology. But I understand why Goga thinks this way. But I also think that he is exaggerating.

I don't know about anyone who claimed that Putin is a social democrat. He is a typical conservative, communists are his biggest opponents and russian nazis the loudest. He has more friends among US Republicans rather than Democrats.

Damn, I didn't want to write that much anymore.
 
wow, I cannot believe this forum, what I see......so many Americans are racists against Kurds:shocked::unbelievable:


Its not that Americans are racists against Kurds. For Americans Kurds are Middle Eastern. If they don't like middle eastern then they don't like Kurds. The problem with this forum is that the few Kurd participants reflect so much ignorance so even if you are pro Kurd will change your mind. They say things like Kurds are brothers with Iranians, or we will smash Turkey to obliteration, etc.. Now you tell me , who will take you seriously if you say such things?
 
Yep in your racist divide and conquer mindset. Just once again you display the clear characteristics of an racist Turkish individual I have come across in my lifetime.

Turkish divide and conquer policy or Kurdish fascistic nationalism :confused:

Zaza Nationalism is only practized by a very small unorginzed group in Europe.

I have already know it my friend and group is mostly well educated people. You doesn't need to be act like someone touch your wound :rolleyes:


By the way , just a question when have you done your DNA test?

Just a answer :grin:, 2014 February now I am wait my mtFull Sequence & R1a - Z280 SNP Pack results

Edit: Thanks to thanks my mtDNA results has already come, I just saw when I checked my account for your question (y)

Now I am not just J1b - I am J1b1b1
 
I do not know why Obama is throwing his support to the arabic SUNNI community, when nearly all terrorists attacks in the last decade are behind done by these types.

Time for Obama to go...........his lack of support for his allies leaves a lot to be desired.
I wonder how he will cope if France commence article #5 of Nato
What he should support according to you? Iran? The terrorist attacks are done by the extremists, not by the entire Sunni religion.
 
Yeah, the real Kurds. By the real Kurds I mean PKK and Kurds in Rojava, Western Kurdistan.

The real Kurds are those who fight against the neo-Nazi fascist Islam.


And there was a genocide against the Ezdi folks, but it would be more catastrophical without the PKK. Without PKK there would be a total extermination of the Ezdi Kurds. Instead of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands would be killed. And Kurds from Rojava and PKK saved their racial Ezdi Kurdish brothers in Shengal, Ezdixan. There was a betrayal by Kurds from South Kurdistan, those who support Islamo-fascist Barzani. Without the betrayal of Islamist Barzani, there would be no genocide at all. Barzani, tribal leader in South Kurdistan, is the weakest link here.


The same PKK and the real Kurds who are fighting against neo-Nazi fascist Islam will defeat Turkish state and will liberate Northern Kurdistan. Without Northern Kurdistan, Kurdistan is not free. The capital of the whole Great Kurdistan is Amed, and Amed is in Northern Kurdistan.

PKK is well preparedand ready for the patriotic liberation war. I think we will witness a total waragainst the Turkish occupiers just in few months!
We're 100% convincedthat we will win this war. And people are not afraid, and especial not afraid of Turks.


Power to the PEOPLE!
I don't think you have the right to say who is a real Kurd and who is not.
 
why then does he then trust the Turks and the Saudis?

the Kurd terrorist actions were long time ago and öcalan has denounced terrorism since
the Kurds were clearly challenged and intimidated by Erdogan before last 1st november elections with some bloody attacks on peacefull demonstrators and it is not clear who was responsable
sometimes it looks like Turkey is playing a double game as strategic western allies but they'd rather support ISIS to attack the Kurds
furthermore Erdogan is using more and more a fascist Muslim language and it clearly pleases a lot of Turks

the Saudis send imams all around the world to preach hatred
a large part the Saudi population is basically fundamentalist Muslim, Wahabist, the worst kind
but the Saudis are waisting so much money and the oil price is to low for them
I think within 5 years their regime will tumble, but will it stop Wahabism?

another thing Obama should consider
if he will not declare war to fundamentalist Islam there might come some kind of alliance between Europe and Russia
I'm sure he is considering it because he now started talking to the Russians himself
he should have acted much earlier
[emoji23] . What do you mean by Europe? There is no an Europe. Britain is the closest ally of USA. Germany it's never gonna be to the Russian side and indeed they don't have even an army. Italy said, they are not gonna bomb the ISIS. So, we have only France. France it's economically an weak country. They can't stand a war in long terms. We should keep going till Assad go down and bring him to prison like we did to Milosevic. Afterward we built a new democratic Syria. If there would be a need, we send there military troops onto the terrain. Assad should go, and including the military bases of Russia.
 
Erdogan, Turks in general are puppets of America. Turks are doing everything American are telling them.

Kurds are fighting not only against the Turks but against America. At this moment the US is enemy of Kurds.


Because of Russia (Putin) Kurds are save. Without Mother Russia, Kurds would be in bigger trouble now.
Indeed USA it's helping a lot the peshmergas. Russia it's bombing only the FSA. They are not bombing ISIS. It's pretty clear what is their goal.

Erdogan is not a puppet. I think he is anti USA.
 
[emoji23] . What do you mean by Europe? There is no an Europe. Britain is the closest ally of USA. Germany it's never gonna be to the Russian side and indeed they don't have even an army. Italy said, they are not gonna bomb the ISIS. So, we have only France. France it's economically an weak country. They can't stand a war in long terms. We should keep going till Assad go down and bring him to prison like we did to Milosevic. Afterward we built a new democratic Syria. If there would be a need, we send there military troops onto the terrain. Assad should go, and including the military bases of Russia.

no one believes in a stable democratic Syria any more
like no one believes in Arabic Spring any more
to many stupid, backward and intolerant people live in the area
 
I tried not to insult you. I really thought you know better.

I think you have an idealized view of your county's history. This is no insult. Most people have an idealized view of their own country's history.

We were successfully cooperating with Russia for some time already and Russia is our neighbor. Suddenly, we are being told that Russia is evil and Putin is a boogeyman (don't start with Ukraine, because this was an evil intrigue for this purpose, where Putin was surprised and forced to act, and where victims and perpetrators were swapped). Unfortunately, also not all european elites are pro-European. I think that enough people here already know this and they represent a significant obstacle for them.

Isolationism is not left wing but right-wing, and as an ideology originates in USA. Those conservatives who want war usually are acting because they believe it is in their own interest, not because of interventionism which is an idealistic stance (although many use idealistic excuses). Typical idealistic interventionism is left-wing, like Clinton, Blair, Power, Sanders, Soros, Glucksman, Henrí-Levy, many european Green Parties and most Trotzkyists. The Soviet Union itself was interventionist until the late 1940s. I personally prefer the conservative isolationists, in case you thought I'm left-wing.

There are also imperialists among left-wingers, who pretend to be idealists. There are anti-imperialists among the conservatives (libertarians, paleo-conservatives, ...). Pacifism is usually more prevalent among left-wingers. Some details are certainly debatable, yet I think I summed it up correctly overall.

Regarding being nazi, I don't know, if someone supports neo-nazis and islamists abroad, is he a neo-nazi then? I think it depends on the perspective. I would say no, because actual nazi-ideology is not necessarily shared. Hitler also was supported by many who merely sought their own benefit, not because they shared nazi-ideology. But I understand why Goga thinks this way. But I also think that he is exaggerating.

I don't know about anyone who claimed that Putin is a social democrat. He is a typical conservative, communists are his biggest opponents and russian nazis the loudest. He has more friends among US Republicans rather than Democrats.

Damn, I didn't want to write that much anymore.

I'm an American by naturalization, not by birth or childhood rearing. Plus, we arrived here recently enough that my university and post university professors presented virtually everything through the typical left wing, anti-American lens. My opinions changed as the result of extensive reading and, I believe, my own rather hard-headed, logic based way of approaching data and the world in general.

I actually think that like a lot of recent European immigrants I appreciate America more because I have a basis for comparison.

My particular academic interest was history both European and American, an interest I have pursued for years, and I also have personal and family history in Europe upon which to draw. All of that informs my opinion that anyone who looks at Russian actions vis a vis Europe whether in the past or in the present and who still thinks that they are cooperating with a benign partner and good neighbor is dangerously naive and should perhaps do some more reading in European history.

I'm afraid that likewise, from my perspective, your analysis of American political thought is rather superficial and obviously owes something to the kind of conspiracy based analyses which in Europe are thought to be a substitute for rational, fact based analysis.

I am telling you as someone who has lived here for years and someone who has studied American history in detail that America has been isolationist since it's inception. See George Washington's Farewell Address.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington's_Farewell_Address

The whole thing is a marvel and a testament as to why he is considered America's greatest president. I would recommend that everyone read it, but if you don't have the time, you can skip to the section about foreign relations.

In the twentieth century the mindset was still that America should hold itself aloof from all the ideological madness that periodically shakes Europe. It was summed up in the phrase, " The business of America is business."

The American people, even though they knew what was going on in Europe, didn't want to get into either World War I or II. They came in late and only after attacks on American citizens or American territory. What Roosevelt wanted is not what the American public wanted.

You are correct that usually the interventionists of the 20th century have been Democrats. However, the first Roosevelt president, Teddy Roosevelt, who wanted to project American power not only in Central America but elsewhere, was a Republican. (He was also a progressive.) So, it's much more complicated that Europeans imagine.

At any rate, whatever the situation in the past, especially since 9/11 it has been the Republicans who have been more interventionist, but it's not because they necessarily want to be the world's policeman. It's because they'd rather fight the enemy "over there than over here." It was the left who turned against that interventionism first, but a majority of Americans, both left and right, turned against it. If that weren't the case, Barack Obama would never have been elected. To see flag draped caskets over and over, young men missing limbs trapped in wheel chairs, billions sinking into some hole in the desert or lining the pockets of some Afghani warlord, and men whom we spent our blood and treasure training failing to man up and defend their own country or still pursuing their asinine internecine squabbles rather than being concerned with the welfare of all their people was just too much. As I said, whether public opinion will now change only time will tell.

I think it's pretty clear that we will have to agree to disagree about these matters, so I'll leave it at that.
 
Indeed USA it's helping a lot the peshmergas. Russia it's bombing only the FSA. They are not bombing ISIS. It's pretty clear what is their goal.

Erdogan is not a puppet. I think he is anti USA.
They will attack now after they lost their plane to IS terrorism.
 
no one believes in a stable democratic Syria any more
like no one believes in Arabic Spring any more
to many stupid, backward and intolerant people live in the area

You can say that the Arabic spring was just a way of removing the remaining non-arabic people from certain nations. it's just that assad ruined it for the arabic as he would not conform.

The west should be protecting the indigenous non-arabic people from all these middle-east and north african countries. protecting does not mean using the last resort and accepting them as migrants, protecting is to prevent arabic rule over the indigenous people so that they might survive.
The yazidi slaughter is a clear example of arabic GENOCIDE on the indigenous non-arabic people.
 
What he should support according to you? Iran? The terrorist attacks are done by the extremists, not by the entire Sunni religion.

the attacks are by sunni on shia and other religions, they happen against shia in syria, irak, saudia arabia, yemen, lebanon ............how many more countries do you want me to mention.

yes, USA should support anyone who can keep the intolerant sunni leaders and their supporters from killing off every other religion in the world............listen to the speeches of the sunni mufta's .

you have no idea on what is happening
 
Its not that Americans are racists against Kurds. For Americans Kurds are Middle Eastern. If they don't like middle eastern then they don't like Kurds. The problem with this forum is that the few Kurd participants reflect so much ignorance so even if you are pro Kurd will change your mind. They say things like Kurds are brothers with Iranians, or we will smash Turkey to obliteration, etc.. Now you tell me , who will take you seriously if you say such things?

If your opinion is solely based on comments made on this forum, then you learn nothing

You need to seek your knowledge outside and ask the question on why the Americans will, in the end "backstab" the kurds and return to supporting the saudi's and the turks which hate the USA. its about time that the USA puts a halt on arabic agression
 
If your opinion is solely based on comments made on this forum, then you learn nothing

You need to seek your knowledge outside and ask the question on why the Americans will, in the end "backstab" the kurds and return to supporting the saudi's and the turks which hate the USA. its about time that the USA puts a halt on arabic agression

USA is a multinational country and democratic. So you have to expect the diversity of opinions. America when it comes to ideas is very diverse. It could be Americans who hate Kurds but the truth is most Americans never heard the word Kurd.
Americans I believe are not too happy giving Iran an ally I guess, even though I also think that Kurds should have their own state in IRAQ.
 
Ho, ho, ho. Wait a minute. I'm PRO West. I'm pro Europe. I'm pro Christian world.

But I'm against the US imperialism and against the US dirty games!
You can't be pro Europe, and at the same time you are pro mother Russia. And Europe it's not an unified entity
 
Kurds have guts, Kurds have the mountains, Kurds have big cities and Kurds have 50 million people! Kurds fight for humanity, while Turks are fighting for oppression. Freedom and liberty always wins from oppression. We have the right cause, and we are on the right side of history. We don't need advance weapons in the mountains. We can destroy Turkish tanks even with molotov cocktails and all we need are surface to air missiles. Tanks are useless in the Mountains.

Occupying Turkish state together with the whole NATO is waging a full scale war against 2000 PKK warriors for 40 years. And for all those 40 years they can't defeat PKK. PKK is still in Kurdistan and people are still behind the PKK for 100%. Power to the people!

Last time when Turkish army was in Qandil, PKK defeated the Turks completely just few years ago in 2008 I think. And Turkish army was on the run from 2000 PKK warriors. Turkish ground forces are useless and very weak like children compared to the PKK warriors in the mountains and urban guerilla tactics in the cities.
So what are you waiting for? Go on with you plan
 
America has been the fireman of the world taking all the risks and paying the price for decades.
Furthermore George W Bush has dragged everybody in a war under false pretextes ('weapons of mass destruction') and we don't know for who's interest actually.
I understand many Americans were tired of all this.
And Europe, it is time it will stand up once.
But a lot is changing now and there a serious threats if we let things happen.
I feel the same about Obama as you.
And we tend to trust the Kurds because there is nobody else left to trust anymore.
Maybe that is not a good criteria.
But I would give them the benefit of the doubt and grant them at least their authority and independence on their own territory and the means to properly defend it.
I think they've deserved that. There are worse partners in the area.
But the Kurds are divided. There are pro USA, and pro Russia Kurds.
 
Putin is more pro-West and pro-Europe than the US. The US has been always against the interests of Europe. The US imperialism is occupying Europe. Europe is a colony of America. And the US is blackmailing Europe with Islam. Sooner or later Russia will liberate Europe from NEO-Nazi Islamo-fascism. Like Russia liberated Europe from NAZI-Germany.
In what manner Putin it's gonna liberate Europe!! Like he is doing with the terrorist regime of Assad. He will install terrorist and anti democratic regimes akin to the Assad's regime. We want the democracy, not the anti human regimes, and we will fight till the end for our freedom. Their are both terrorists. (Putin and Assad)
[emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562]
 
You can say that the Arabic spring was just a way of removing the remaining non-arabic people from certain nations. it's just that assad ruined it for the arabic as he would not conform.

The west should be protecting the indigenous non-arabic people from all these middle-east and north african countries. protecting does not mean using the last resort and accepting them as migrants, protecting is to prevent arabic rule over the indigenous people so that they might survive.
The yazidi slaughter is a clear example of arabic GENOCIDE on the indigenous non-arabic people.


I tottaly,

someone must report that and ask UN to act to this direction
 

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