Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Kind discussion
A) The Bell Beakers are the first to display complex hierarchy and used effectively metals for weaponry, no matter the precise origin of such culture, but the case is that they mastered such pops.
B) (Moesan)« Infact, the archaeological sites with Bell Beaker remains are veryscarce in the Meseta Central of the Iberian Peninsula.«
If you travel there you will know why: it's a barren steppe with lands cultivated each five years. Even so there were BB.
C) (Moesan) - an increase in popin South seems proved but was not linear/continual. I red thata demic boom/bust occurred in Iberia between 5300/5150BC (decline ofCardial, starting of Epicardial) and that the Chalco/Bronze perioddid not change things in an appreciable proportion as a whole.
So if Iberian pops were still going on... you can check the paper about the European pops and how from 2500 BC CW fall from 3 to 2 millions, and one of such millions was aloctone.
D) (Moesan) - some kinds ofsettlements are rather « short » time ones, seemingly forprospection, and don't prove strong demography.
a migratory pop as BB can settle somewhere but after some years leave for a best place.
E)- BBs did not begin dominate S and SE Spain before the 2200 BC, spite being close to itsince the 3000 BC ; were they so strong, in fine ?Nevertheless they were already in Germany about the 2500 BC. ?Have we archeologic proofs of a huge move through W Europe at thesedates ? rather infiltration. The BB settlements in Provence andRhône proximity were found among other cultures if I red well.
The farmer cultures in S Iberia were quite populated already, by that the delay to get some of them if BB were herders. Simple infiltration is not the case as we read from papers about mtDNA in Germany or Y-DNA in Ireland.
F) We cannot put the mt-H increase only on theaccount of BBs moves in Europe. MtH(1&3) were surely wellimplanted in Portugal and Atlantic Europe since Neolithic, maybe LateMesolithic or even earlier in some regions (we lack anDNA fromwestern shores of Europe as a whole, you noticed it, but we haveancient Basques and Cantabrians mt-DNA) ; Megalithers and local« partners »seem having had some weight until Germanybefore BBs appeared there. Yet, Gurgy people (46) had 34,7% mt-H around 4900/4500 BC and there were not on the Atlantic shores and it was before the apparent megaliths W >> E expansion.
You can't get a 40% of H in BB Germans with a 35%, instead a figure of 70% as in S Portugal would work finely.
spacing key...
Two of the three Neolithic
sites represented, Gruta do Caldeirão (Zilhão 1992) and
Algar do Bom Santo (Duarte 1998) are cave burial sites.
The other, Perdigões (Lago et al. 1998), is a much larger
and slightly later development, including a necropolis,
settlement area and megalith.
Recent results from archaeological excavations and various sciences are about to alter our models describing the European Bell Beaker phenomenon and challenge established previous insights. The author will present the current state of understanding and set out to explain the wider picture of events between east and west of Europe in the late fourth and first half of the third millennium BC contributing to the emergence, expansion and establishing of Bell Beakers.
Reporting back on the lecture on Bell Beaker by Volker Heyd this evening in Dorchester. The expected two aDNA papers on Bell Beaker have been delayed for the best possible reason. The two teams, one from Harvard and the other from Copenhagen, have agreed to amalgamate their results into one huge paper, which will give the results of over 200 samples. It is due to be published in a couple of months. Until then all the results are embargoed. Volker Heyd would only say that they are exciting.
He would also prefer me not to divulge everything he said at the lecture on the archaeological side, since he has a paper coming out in the March issue of Antiquity on Bell Beaker; while in the same issue will be one by Kristiansen on Corded Ware. So I'll be brief. He went through the various theories of the origins of Bell Beaker: the Dutch model prevalent until the 1990s, the change wrought by the Muller and Van Willigen radiocarbon date compilation of 2001 and subsequent publications of early dates in Iberia, the various attempts to make sense of an Iberian origin. The problem of the latter and of the idea of a North African origin are the same in his view. There is no prior usage of cord in pottery decoration of either. So he sticks by the Yamnaya link to a pre-BB culture proposed in Harrison and Heyd 2007. The icing on the cake lies in two significant new discoveries, which are not entirely published as yet.
Results from Unambiguous Bell Beaker:
Bell Beaker from Kromsdorf 4550 ybp = 0% H + 100% ( T1a, K1, I1a1, W5a, U2e, U5a1 )
Bell Beaker from Benzingerode-Heimburg 4300/4200 ybp = 0% H + 100% ( T2a, W1, U5a )
Bell Beaker from Quedlinburg 4300/4200 ybp = 50% H5/H1 + 50% ( T2e, J1c, U5a, U5b )
Bell Beaker from Rothenschirmbach 4300/4200 ybp = 60% H5/H3 + 40% ( K1a2 )
Bell Beaker from Alberstedt 4300/4200 ybp = 100% H5/H3 + 0% ( - )
1- The oldest tested Bell Beaker population is Kromsdorf and there is not found any H carrier.
2- H5 is the only H haplogroup shared among all of these Bell Beaker populations where H is found.
3- H5 is found in a 8350 ybp individual from Anatolia.
4- K1a2 is found in a 8350 ybp individual from Anatolia.
5- W1 is found in a 8350 ybp individual from Anatolia.
6- T1a is found in a 9500 ybp individual from Jordan.
7- T2e is found in a 7500 ybp individual from Neolithic Hungary.
8- J1c is found in a 9900 ybp individual from Neolithic Iran.
9- H3 is found in a 7300 ybp individual from Neolithic Portugal.
Not a real new but a "leak" already spread by DNA blogs. There was a talk in the Dorset County Museum by Volker Heyd the past week. It was announced so:
Jean Manco attended the talk and did some questions, his resumé in Anthrogenica was:
The words "challenge" and "problem" and the verbs "to make sense" and "he sticks" fit well for Yamnayists? Why Heyd must stick in a Yamnayan origin for Bell Beakers if archaeology is not providing reasons? by DNA results?
As previously posted, new Bell Beaker results from Iberian Peninsula confirms again that mtDNA H was not linked to R1b. Instead, mtDNA H is strongly linked to Early Neolithic populations with peaks in those were Y-DNA T1a1 have been found close.
https://publications.ub.uni-mainz.de/theses/frontdoor.php?source_opus=100000815&la=en
Did the 2 x T1a-M70 found in Central Germany 5500BC who both had H mtdna markers , come from Iberia with "H mtdna " already or did these T1a-M70 meets the H1 and H46 in Central Germany?
This thread has been viewed 67113 times.