Religion Is Allah, Jehovah, etc., the same God?

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Oh, Jarvis ...

What a troubled young man you are....

This just has to be my last post on this sorry thread....

Hang on in there, dude...

I'd pray for you, guy ... but can't ....!

?W????
 
7 days and counting down...

This thread has gotten wayyyyy off track from my original posting. And I don't really see that anyone picked up on what I was saying in the first post anyway, but nevertheless there are a couple of remarks I'm like to go back and pick up on.

Sensuikan San, I think you concern me the most in the way you responded. You completely read over the words about the grace and love of God through Jesus Christ and focus solely on God's judgement. God is Creator and has the right to do with His creation as He pleases. If He created us, then He has the right to judge us. But here and now, God extends His mercy and grace and love to each of us to draw us to Himself. He didn't come into the world to condemn it, but to give us the power to become sons of God.

That's what you're missing. Jesus Christ came to make you what you can never be on your own. A son of God. To crown you with love and forgiveness, to make you worthy of a gift that even the angels of heaven would long to have if they could. Forgiveness of sin and eternal life is a great deal!

And, yes, I can be sure that this is mine, because on October 9, 1969, I became a child of God, warts and all. He saved me by His grace and He can do the same for you. I will be praying for you, my friend.
 
Jarvis, I really worry about you. These people are extremists and you seem to heading that way on the Christian side. The majority of true Christians and Muslims don't want anything to do with this. Peace and tolerance is preached in both religions. The problem is minorities on both sides like to stir up hatred and intolerance by reading their own things into the argument. These people are NOT true Muslims or Christians. I hope you find a balance. :eek:

Pararousia. sensuikan san is like me. We do not believe in God or Gods. There is no judgement on us. We have the abilitiy to make us what we are and to guide ourselves to our own salvation. I do not need God for me to live my life happily. I regard Jesus and Mohammad very similar men. Both wanted something better than what was around them. They tried to change it and one of them was punished for it, the other managed to live out his life, But they are men, nothing more. I admire you for your beliefs and see they make you happy, but they are not for me. I also see you are a little bit more balanced and thoughful than Jarvis. Peace be with you. :)
 
Yes according to the teaching of mohammaed jesus was a prophet as well, and muslims accept him as such, and muslims tolerated and had high regard for christians and jews because they all worshiped the same god, and they along with muslims were referred to as the people of the book because they worship the same god. And yes it is the same god, if you look a the religions closely you will see how similar they are.........
 
Jarvis seeing as you like quotes and biblical sources to back up you arguments consider this one:

Matthew Chapter 7 said:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Click to expand...

Try to learn from it.
 
This thread has drifted way off topic.

If you want to debate about Christianity Vs Islam, Muslims and Terrorism, fine. Start another thread and do it. If no one else has anything constructive to say, I'll just lock this thread.
 
For anyone who sees Islam as a threat to Christianity...

Before you seal this off Mad Pierrot, please let me post a word of peace from a cultural anthropologist Li, Hisu, [email protected].

disclaimer: If religious remarks offend you, please move on to another topic. This is only to bring some goodness out of this thread where many have participated. I'd hate to see it get locked with a negative tone.


Common Origin, High Regard

As far as the two religions of Christianity and Islam are concerned, they are the two closest religions on earth.
Both trace back the beginning of faith and spirituality to Abraham. They show similar attitudes regarding the prophets. Although Islam differs from Christianity in denying the divinity of Jesus, Islam nevertheless respect him as the infallible, supreme human being, and the greatest prophet of all times.

The Quran records the miraculous birth of Jesus (Quran 3:47). By the power of God, how he worked miracles, raising the dead, curing the blind and the leprous. The judgement day and the returning of Jesus is also mentioned in the Quran (43:61, 4:159). Jesus is mentioned throughout the 15 chapaters, and more specifically in 93 verses out of the 6,226 total.


The fallacy of "Quran in one hand, sword in the other"

Then why has there been characterizations of the two religions as the two most hostile religions on earth ? Such claims made by Europeans in the past that Molems forcefully spread their religion were intended to arouse a sense of crisis and hatred in response to the spreading of Isalm influence. Nowhere in the Quran is mentioned that a believer of Isalm is to 'spread the faith by force.' To the contrary, the Quran clearly states that 'there must never be any coercion in matters of faith.'

The historical interpretation of remarks from the Quran recognizing wars can be traced back to the harsh conditions in which the founders of the faith in Medina could not avoid the struggle with Meccans.

In the history of territorial expansion of Islamic influence, forceful conversion was NOT the norm, but rather the exception. Molems only required the people of occupied areas certain taxes in return for physical protection, allowing freedom of culture, tradition, and religion. In order to take advantage of the lower tax required of a person of Islamic faith and the greater freedom and equality available, many non-Moslems sought to convert to Islam. The Islamic governments had to issue 'Prohibition to Convert to Islam' in order to prevent fiscal disaster. Under Islamic empires, Christians and Jews were allowed to enjoy a high level of freedom of religion and economic privileges.

It took around 100 years for the prejudiced claims about hostile Moslems to be erased from our textbooks. 'Quran in one hand, sword in the other' has been the ghost that has been misleading Westerners and non-Moslem Asians alike. While under the prejudice, our cultures may have been putrifying with the age-old hatred reproducing unto hatred.
 
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This is going to be my last post on this thread, as I feel that this discussion is going downhill, rapidly.
Lexico, my friend, good post and I wish people will learn from it.
Jarvis, I am worried about your intolerance. You are an angry young man. If I was you I would take a step back and try to consider what has been said on this thread in an objective, constructive light.
Pararousia, I am sorry that your thread has taken a turn for the worst. It was a good subject for debate.
 
Sensuikan San said:
I totally agree, but readily accept your caution. A most perceptive post!

What we are faced with is, as you suggest ... dealing with the views of the individual against the opinion of the majority. ....and from day to day ... each of us does indeed become "the individual"! ...and what constitutes "the majority ?

It has always been thus ... and will possibly never differ. Democracy ain't easy, is it !

I've always tried to be pragmatic myself (boasted of it, even !) ... but I'm afraid an amount of idealism does have to creep in after a while!

Without ideals ... where are we?

But as you say - caution must always be the watchword. Free tolerance can indeed ... if totally allowed full rein ... foster many things ....

... but you've never seen me in my jackboots, have you ! :biggrin:

Helluva conundrum isn't it !

Regards,

?W????
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The difference, I think, is balancing idealism with pragmatism. If they try to kill me, kill them. If not, don't worry about it. Personally, I believe the world will be a far better place once all people realize that god is dead.
 
if Christains and muslims beleive in the same God, why are Christains not allowed in mecca or madina?

hway-2-mecca-muslims-only.jpg
 
I'm also sorry the thread turned more towards "let's hate Muslims"--that wasn't my intent. But it's not supposed to be a "let's hate God" thread either, which a lot of members feel so proud of themselves. It's more politically correct to be an atheist than a Christian in a great many internet forums.
 
Hmmm...would a Moderator please close this thread...doesn't look like I can or I don't know how. Thanks.
 
For Jarvis

Jarvis,

It seems that you're in boiling water now, eh? No offense, but you've earned quite a reputation in this forum. Not only that but you've also earned the ire of the moderators. Do anything careless and you might end up banned from JREF. This ain't small potatoes, y'know?

The reason why everybody seems to be against you is that your actions have been quite offensive lately. No offense but here's what I observed.
- You kept on reiterating that Muslims deserve to rot in hell 'coz they're Satanic, sadists, etc.
- You kept on preaching that the Qur'an is Satan's deception.
- You turn to the Bible as the only credble source while discrediting other secular sources.
- You kept on turning a deaf ear on our opinion, and dissing us in the process.
- To make matters worse, you plagiarize articles! (by not giving credit)
That's very unbecoming for such devout Christians like you, jarvis.

To spread around "God's Word" while dissing other faiths is hyporitical. Don't you know that your arguments can be used against Christianity? As someone said earlier: One man's faith is another man's blasphemy. It's all in the individual's perspective which gives religion its relevance

I suggest you develop an open mind, and an open heart, my friend. :)

let's get back to the topic....
 
There is one thing Christians, Jews, and Muslims share...

JERUSALEM!!!! :p

Dome of the Rock, Wailing Wall, Nativity Church: they're all in that small warzone...
 
jarvis said:
if Christains and muslims beleive in the same God, why are Christains not allowed in mecca or madina?
Click to expand...
Having the same god does not mean having the same religion.
Perhaps you should update your definitions?

The basis of Christianity, Islam & Judaism is obviously the same, the interpretation of the underlying principles varies widely (even inside those religions).
 
John.14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
[5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
[12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
[22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
[24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
[25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
[29] And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
[30] Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
[31] But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
 
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