Macedonians

Garrick and elias2

wait you see that , President Obama is Makedonian But CIA hides it in purpose

DejaVu is right

Dejavu if I change Nationality and Become a MAKEDONIAN THEN I WILL BE EUROPEAN??????
 
Garrick and elias2

wait you see that , President Obama is Makedonian But CIA hides it in purpose


lol I think Joan of Arc, Gandi were macedonians too, as well as the blue power ranger :grin:

images
 
DejaVu Greeks never claimed Dussan as Greek
For Us it was always a Foreign Ruler
understand that,
although later some of his sons marries palaiologos family and also share the name
for us he was a ruler a foreigner understand that,
dusan claimed Tsar of Greeks
not the Greeks claimed Dusan as tsar



HAHAHA HA

Elias (y) (y) (y)
 
Tsar Dusan is Serb, Macedonians are not claiming him as Macedonian its about falsification of "Macedonian King" to "Greek King" to erase the existence of the Macedonians in history.
 
Serbian spirit and Greek spirit is broken when the original evidence is presented, if you cant take it anymore then your are a bunch of living liars/falsification fanatics and are going to continue to be that.

Your right, My spirit is destroyed! My life is over! :petrified:. I guess all I can do now is watch TV and wallow in my greef!. I hear the main character of Pokemon is a real macedonian! I wish I were him! :LOL:

tumblr_lblrg5Qix11qatp2c.jpg
 
More real Macedonians! LOL I'm not posting in this thread anymore. Peace! :LOL:

teletubbies_20091030_seoulbeats.png
 
Tsar Samuel, Bulgarian or Macedonian? (Armenian?)
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/blog/samuel.html

Todd B. Krause
An issue that frequently arises in connection with the LRC's lesson series Old Church Slavonic Online is the national or cultural or other affiliation of the famous Tsar Samuel (or Samuil, or somewhat more faithfully Samoilŭ). In the context of the lesson series, Samuel is mentioned as author of a particular inscription that provides the oldest dated text in the Old Church Slavonic language. To be clear: that is the only reason for Samuel's mention in the lesson series, which concerns itself primarily with the language of a particular region and time.
Nevertheless, the series editors have on numerous occasions been reminded by readers that Samuil's status as a prominant early figure in Bulgarian and Macedonian history is a great source of either pride or animosity. We would like to state flatly that the Linguistics Research Center does not espouse any particular viewpoint re: Samuil's association with any modern or historically recent political entity.



There are several themes that recur in email that our readers send us, and in the spirit of furthering modern understanding of historical cultures it is worth addressing some of these themes in light of modern scholarship.
  • Samuil's ethnic origin: The perennial question is whether Samuil was Bulgarian or Macedonian. The simple fact is that it is difficult to answer this question, because what those terms mean now is not necessarily what they would have meant to Samuil. Moreover, one of the few primary sources in any way contemporary with Samuil, written by Asolik, states that Samuil was in fact Armenian. As Adontz (1938) points out, the name of Samuil's mother, Ripsime, is peculiar to a specific region in Armenia, and his father's name Nicolas is found in numerous regions at that time, among them Armenia. Thus an Armenian origin for Samuil is certainly a credible, though perhaps not the only, reading of the evidence presented to date.
  • Samuil's cultural self-identification: As many point out, what we in the modern era think about Samuil's cultural affiliation is moot if we know what he thought of himself. Unfortunately, that's not easy to determine. Though Samuil and later members of his family used, in reference to their cultural affiliation, terms we might now render as "Bulgarian," given the political climate and power struggles of his time it is quite difficult to ascertain to what degree this term truly specified a traditional culture, or to what degree it might rather have specified a political entity defining the empire. It is quite possible that "Bulgarian" meant to Samuil something similar to what "Roman" likely meant to Charlemagne, who neither lived in nor hailed from Rome.
  • General import: The above points hopefully provide an inkling of the grave difficulties that surround the interpretation of the small amount of information we have concerning Samuil. Certainly there is room for continued refinement in our understanding. But we would do well to keep in mind points raised by Aleksandar Panev:
"The differences in the various historical accounts of Samuel, who ruled a short-lived kingdom centered in Prespa and Ohrid from 976 to 1014, reflect recent nationalistic controversies and scholarly discourses that have emerged in the scholarly literature of modern Macedonia and Bulgaria. The dispute focuses on Samuel's ethnic affiliation and the alleged nationality of his subjects. On one hand, scholars from the Republic of Macedonia tend to emphasize the cultural, social, and even linguistic distinctiveness of Samuel's kingdom. On the other, Bulgarian scholars emphasize the fact that Samuel used the Bulgarian name for himself and his kingdom and the beginnings of his career in southwestern Macedonia are rarely mentioned. Both approaches clearly aim to support present-day nationalistic claims and agendas. The Macedonians need this approach in order to demonstrate that they have long been a separate nationality with their own language and history; the Bulgarian interpretation, on the other hand, supports the claim that Macedonians are essentially Bulgarians by ethnic origin, as well as by cultural and linguistic characteristics. Both approaches are anachronistic. It is indeed difficult to speak about the national consciousness of a short-lived medieval ruler and his subjects and to discuss his impact on national development at a time when the majority of the population was illiterate and boundaries were fluid. Moreover, the only primary source that discusses the ethnic affiliation of Samuel asserts that he was an Armenian by origin. Bulgarian and Macedonian ethnic groups only began to acquire national consciousness in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Only during the past century and a half have Southeastern European Slavs gradually begun to assert their nationality and unify around several urban centers. Thus, the national affiliation of Samuel can neither be determined nor could it be relevant to today's situation in the region." (Panev, 2005)
car.samuil.mapa.jpg



Themes in the Byzantine Empire under Basil II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_of_Bulgaria


http://www.macedonianspark.com/en/hi...11-09-11-46-06
As we can see, King Dusan proclaimed himself for Macedonian king, but not because he was Macedonian, but for someone to proclaim himself a king, or emperor in medieval times had to take the crown of a kingdom that existed previously. And what kingdom would that be if not the kingdom of Samuel! Knowing that Kosara, daughter of Samuel married DuklaPrince John Vladimir, who was a prisoner at Samuil's royal palace. However, lucky for him, thanks to the love of Kosara, he was pardoned and became son in-law of Samuel, but also part of the family.
Is there any greater evidence that would challenge the contention of some Bulgarian historians that Samuil’s state was Bulgarian? According to medieval law, the king's crown could be obtained only from the patriarch. When Emperor Dusan governed the whole territory of Macedonia in his state was found two autocephalous Archbishopry, the one of Ohrid and Pech. Soon Dusan decided to proclaim himself a king. Therefore it was necessary the Pech archdiocese to be declared for patriarchate. It was helped by the Ohrid Archbishop and the TrnovoPatriarch. The both Holy Synods and the Patriarch of Trnovo came, and both of them proclaimed Joannicius II for patriarch, and then the three church dignitaries coronate Dusan in a king. The participation of the Macedonian superior - Ohrid Archbishop was considered as a substitute for the Ecumenical Patriarch, who canceled his attendance in the coronation. Any changes in the Serbian state and church were done with the participation and the blessing of the Macedonian archbishop.
Whether in this case we should close our eyes when the same Macedonian church today is denied? This historical fact, in the 19th century disturbed the Serbian intelligence, which was in its infancy, that’s why there are many falsifications of the Serbian medieval documents in their re-publishing in the 19th century.

Cups found in Samuils Fortress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuil's_Fortress,_Ohrid
Suncups.jpg



http://www.mav.mk/article.php?lang=en&article=14
Samuil’s Fortress (Pasko Kuzman)
Relief (megharic) ceramic cups with representation of the solar symbol of the ancient Macedonians (2nd century BC), discovered in the same cistern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergina_Sun


Bulgarian Falsification of Macedonian history

The stone inscriptions case
http://www.makedonika.org/whatsnew/THE%20STONE%20INSCRIPTIONS%20CASE.pdf

1. This is the fabricated stone inscription by "Tsar Samuil" found in Voden (Edessa), Greece.
VODEN2.jpg


2. This is the stone inscription by Ivan Vladislav found in Bitola, Macedonia.
BITOLIA.gif


THE TEXT
1. This is the text translated in Bulgarian from the fake stone in Voden:
1. V samodurjavnia grad Voden Az Samuil, veren v Hrista
2. Car na Bulgarite i Romeite, ot boga izpraten samodurjec
3. na vsichki strani ot Rashka do Makedonia, Tesalia
4. i Gurcia , vnuk na staria Shishman, koito beshe Han na
5. jitelite na Turnovo, postroih tozi molitven dom, za da
sushtestvuva v vechnostta. Osnovite biaha polojeni v epohata
na Ieremia, koito beshe pruv hristianin ot Melnik.
6. Postroen be (tozi hram) za grehovete i spasenieto na bulgarite
7. ot prokletia Satana, koito proizhojda ot Konstantinopol.
8. Tozi hram be zavurshen prez 14-tata godina ot caruvaneto mi
s pomoshtta na sveshtennika Gavril, koito e duhoven pastirna jitelite na Muglen.
9. Napisano prez godina 6497 ot suzdavaneto na sveta (989 g.)5-ti Indiktion.

Rough translation into English:

In the city of Voden, I Samuil, faithul to Christ, Emperor of the Bulgars and Romans, Godsent emperor of all lands from Raska to Macedonia, Thessaly and Greece, nephew of the old Shishman who was Khan of the inhabitants of Trnovo, built this prayer home, to exist forever. The foundation were laid in the epoch of Jeremiah, who was the first hristian in Melnik. This tample was built for the sins and saving of the Bulgars from damned Satan, who comes from Constantinople. This tample was finished during the 14th year of my rule with the help of monk Gavril, who is the spiritial shepherd of the inhabitants of Meglen. Written during year 6497 from the foundation of the world (989 A.D), 5th Indiction.


2. This is the text translated in Bulgarian from the stone in Bitola:

"Prez godina 6523 (1015-1016) ot sutvorenieto na sveta obnovi se tazi krepost, zidana i pravena ot Ioan, samodurjec bulgarski, s pomoshtta i s molitvite na presvetata vladichica nasha Bogorodica i chrez zastupnichestvoto na dvanadesette i na vurhovnite apostoli. Tazi krepost be napravena za ubejishte i za spasenie i za jivota na bulgarite. Zapochnata beshe krepostta Bitolia prez mesec oktomvri v 20-i den, a se zavurshi v mesec... kraia. Tozi samodurjec beshe bulgarin po rod, vnuk na Nikola i na Ripsimia blagovernite, sin na Aaron, koito e brat na Samuil, caria samodurjaven, i koiito dvamata razbiha v
Shtipon (Ihtiman) gruckata voiska na car Vasilii, kudeto be vzeto zlato... , a tozi v... car razbit bide ot car Vasilii v godina 6522 (1014) ot sutvorenieto na sveta v Kliuch i pochina v kraia na liatoto."

Rough translation into English:

During the year 6523 (1015-1016) from the beggining of the world this fortress is being renewed, built and made by Ioan, Bulgarian autocrator, with the help and prayers of our Virgin Mary and through the representation of the twelve and supreme apostles. This fortress was made as haven and deliverance of the lives of the Bulgarians. The fortress Bitolia was started during the month of October 20th and was completed in the month of... ending. This autocrator was Bulgarian by birth, nephew of Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who is brother to Samuil, the tsar autocrator, with whom they smashed in Shtipon (Ihtiman) the Greek army of tsar Vasili, where they took gold..., and this tsar was destroyed by tsar Vasili in the year of 6522 (1014) from the beginning of the world in Kliuch and died at the end of the summer

3. The Story

During September 1997 a Greek national with "Bulgarian identity" from Voden named Stoidis
appeared in Sofia at the National Historical Museum and declared to the Director Bozidar
Dimitrov that he has in his possession a stone inscription found in Voden (Edessa) during
the reconstruction of a local church. The Director declared the inscription a fake made
by Bulgarian nationalists in the 19th Century. Apparently the whole story was published
in the Bulgarian daily Kontinent on "02.10.1997."


The "Bitola inscription" was discovered during the demolition of a mosque in Bitola during the
1950's and so far nobody doubted its veracity. Considering the Voden case the Bitola stone
has to be viewed in new light. Chances that it was written by the same authors are indeed very
high. We have also to ask about other products from the same authors as well as regard
the whole Bulgarian historiography concerning Macedonia with great suspicion.




The legend of Basil the Bulgar-slayer.
http://www.deremilitari.org/REVIEWS/Stephenson_basil.htm
In chapter five, Stephenson explores how the contemporary authors referred to Basil. An extensive survey of the Byzantine sources reveal that instead of Voulgaroktonos, Basil was generally referred to as porphyrogennetos or "born in the purple" to show he was the reigning emperor. Otherwise he was referred to as "the younger" or "the second". Thus Basil was known to the chroniclers and others as Basil II. This trend continued in the literature well beyond the life of Basil. Stephenson also reveals that this was well known even to biographers in the seventeenth century.

It is not until chapter six that the mystery is revealed in why Basil transforms from porphyrogennetos into the Voulgaroktonos. As one might suspect it has more to do with political changes, particularly in the ways that Bulgars were viewed in the twelfth century, rather than any particular historical activities. However, Basil image would decline again in later centuries, particularly with the rise of the Turks and a decline in the threat from the Bulgars.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseus_of_Macedon
Perseus (Greek: Περσεύς) (ca. 212 BC - 166 BC) was the last king (Basileus) of the Antigonid dynasty, who ruled the successor state in Macedon created upon the death of Alexander the Great. He also has the distinction of being the last of the line, after losing the Battle of Pydna on 22 June 168 BC; subsequently Macedon came under Roman rule.

The Antigonid kingdom was dissolved, and replaced with four republics. Andriscus of Macedon broke off the Roman rule for about a year, but was defeated in 148 BC by the Romans. In 146 BC, the four republics were dissolved, and Macedon officially became the Roman province of Macedonia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_province_of_Macedonia
Map_Macedonia_province.png

The province of Macedonia within the Roman Empire, ca. 117 AD


Roman provinces,400 AD
 

The "Sklavinias" in the Balkans, 7th–8th centuries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaviniae
Sklavinia(i) (Greek: Σκλαβινίαι, Latin: SCLAVINIAE) was the Greek term for the Slav settlements (area, territory) which were initially out of Byzantine control and independent. The term may be interpreted as "Slav lands" in Byzantium. The term is derived from the name Sclaveni, which was used to describe all Slavic peoples with whom the Byzantine Empire came in contact. The Sclaviniae of the Byzantine Empire eventually became South Slavic nations:
  • The Serbs became allies to the Byzantine Emperor (hypekooi) and eventually became independent.
  • The Bulgars fought the Byzantine Empire and were through a peace treaty after 680 recognized as an independent state, they subsequently merged with the Slavs in Eastern Balkans into the modern nation of Bulgarians.



Collapse of the Western Empire (395–476)


What was slavic people?
Was all Sclaviniae same people, or was it again a roman way to describe all people outside the borders of Rome as it was before, Barbarians (Germania was not inhabited only of todays Germans)?
Did the Romans ask the people what they were, dont think so, they did not care.
 
SLAVS?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506?dopt=Abstract
Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups.
Villena 2001 claims that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the "Mycaenian Greeks",Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharans...

Abstract
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks.
 
Last edited:
Villena 2001 claims that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the "Mycaenian Greeks",Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharans...

DejaVu did anyone claim opposite?
I said about ancient Thracians trbes

BUT DOES MILENA 2001 SAYS WHICH MAKEDONIANS? (SLAVIC OR GREEK), ARE SONS OF ANCIENTS MAKEDONIANS?

Besides I can read Bulgarian in tsar Cymeon stone,
Not Alexanders alphabet But Cyrrilic


During Simeon's rule, Bulgaria spread over a territory between the Aegean, the Adriatic and the Black Sea,[7][8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_I_of_Bulgaria

He conquered Makedonia, He was an Invader,
Just follow slavic Kings to prove your Betrayal to your Ancestors Argeians Dynasty
or you may want to prove that you are a Bulgarian claim another Ethnicitie
 
hahaha
I am G2a3
or G2a2, i will find tomorrow the results

What are trying to do people, I am Proud for What I AM

Lol, that's really funny and sad at the same time. You and DejaVu are like cousins, and both Makedonians, and can't find a common goal, understanding to live peacefully like brothers.

On other hand, thanks to you two, I learnt some history of this region.

Later ;)
 
Lol, that's really funny and sad at the same time. You and DejaVu are like cousins, and both Makedonians, and can't find a common goal, understanding to live peacefully like brothers.

On other hand, thanks to you two, I learnt some history of this region.

Later ;)

LeBrok

Iapetoc is Macedonian (Greece).

DejaVu is Slavic Macedonian (Macedonia, FYROM).

The ancient Macedonians according to historical sources, most likely the Dorian tribe Makednoi.
SlavoMacedonians are closest Serbs according to research haplogroup.

Scientific analysis of DNA results
Dieckens decided to investigate the correlations between haplogroup frequencies in southeastern Europe and some neighboring populations.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/08/haplogroup-frequency-correlations-in.html

Labels are as follows:

GRE: Greece
SER: Serbia
SMA: Slavic Macedonia (FYROM)
HER: Herzegovina
BOS: Bosnia
ALB: Albania
KAL: Kosovo Albanians
SLO: Slovenia
CRO: Croatia
UKR: Ukraine
TUR: Turkey
HUN: Hungary
ROM: Romania
ITA: Italy

You can see his results on map.

princomp5or.jpg


I tried to introduce changes for Serbia and Montenegro, MNE (based on Mirabal et al 2010) and Albania, GAL Gege Albanians and TAL Tosk Albanians (according Ferri et al, 2010).

The differences are as follows:

SER has moved somewhat closer to the left to HER and BOS;

If would be introduced in the picture GAL (Geges Albanians) that would be slightly lower than the KAL;

If would be injected also a TAL (Tosk Albanians) that would not be much moved over in comparison to ALB;

If would be introduced Montenegro it would be about halfway between the diagonal and GAL SER.


Despite these changes for Serbia would be the closest to the left Bosnia (BOS) again the right Macedonia FYROM apropos Macedonia FYROM is by far the closest to Serbia.


In the original Dieckens paper Serbia and Macedonia FYROM are almost folded, which indicates a high congruence of population.
 
I was marley commenting on their similarities. They are both G2a3 and both Macedonians. Most likely they are both autosomaly closely related, but they act and fight like one is a dog the other a cat. Their divide is only cultural.
 
Wrong Results

Serbia (Mirabal et al 2010), Macedonia FYROM (Pericic et al, 2005)

Serbia and Macedonia (FYROM)

I2a2 38,5%_______29,1 %
I1 7,8% __________ No data
R1a 14,5_________15,2%
R1b 4,5%_________5,1%
E1b1b1 17,3%______24,1%
J2 5,0____________6,3%
G2a 2,2% _________ No data



AND HERE IS THE REAL RESULTS.

Serbia (Mirabal et al 2010), Macedonia FYROM (Pericic et al, 2005)

Serbia and Macedonia (FYROM)

I2a2 38,5%_______29,1%
I1 7,8% __________ 5.0%
R1a 14,5_________15,2%
R1b 4,5%_________5,1%
E1b1b1 17,3%______24,1%
J2 5,6%____________12,7%
G2a 2,2% _________ 5,1%
N 3,3% _______________ 0%
L 0,6% _______________ 0%

Serbia 94,3% Total - Serbs
Macedonia (FYROM) 96,3% Total - Ethnic Macedonians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...oups_in_Europe
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...4/F2.large.jpg
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/10/1964.full.pdf+html



http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/08...ations-in.html
"Currently, I have collected frequency data for the main haplogroups found in the region (E3b, J2, I, R1a, R1b) for 16 populations."

Yes, there is a connection between ethnic Macedonians and Serbs but even with Bulgarians and other near areas, the connection is way back before Serbia existed. Can be explained by Sclaviniae.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaviniae
Sklavinia(i) (Greek: Σκλαβινίαι, Latin: SCLAVINIAE) was the Greek term for the Slav settlements (area, territory) which were initially out of Byzantine control and independent. The term may be interpreted as "Slav lands" in Byzantium. The term is derived from the name Sclaveni, which was used to describe all Slavic peoples with whom the Byzantine Empire came in contact. The Sclaviniae of the Byzantine Empire eventually became South Slavic nations:
  • The Serbs became allies to the Byzantine Emperor (hypekooi) and eventually became independent.
  • The Bulgars fought the Byzantine Empire and were through a peace treaty after 680 recognized as an independent state, they subsequently merged with the Slavs in Eastern Balkans into the modern nation of Bulgarians.
The Byzantines broadly grouped the numerous Slav tribes into two groups: the Sklavenoi and Antes. Apparently, the Sklavenoi group were based along the middle Danube, whereas the Antes were at the lower Danube, in Scythia Minor. Some, such as Bulgarian scholar Zlatarsky, suggest that the first group settled the western Balkans, whilst offshoots of the Antes settled the eastern regions (roughly speaking). From the Danube, they commenced raiding the Byzantine Empire from the 520s, on an annual basis. They spread about destruction, taking loot and herds of cattle, seizing prisoners and taking fortresses. Often, the Byzantine Empire was stretched defending its rich Asian provinces from Arabs, Persians and Turks. This meant that even numerically small, disorganised early Slavic raids were capable of causing much disruption, but could not capture the larger, fortified cities on the Aegean coast.
In 577 some 100,000 Slavs poured into Thrace and Illyricum, pillaging cities and settling down. By the 580s, as the Slav communities on the Danube became larger and more organised, and as the Avars exerted their influence, raids became larger and resulted in permanent settlement. In 586 AD, as many as 100,000 Slav warriors raided Thessaloniki. By 581, many Slavic tribes had settled the land around Thessaloniki, though never taking the city itself, creating a Macedonian Sclavinia. As John of Ephesus tells us in 581: "the accursed people of the Slavs set out and plundered all of Greece, the regions surrounding Thessalonica, and Thrace, taking many towns and castles, laying waste, burning, pillaging, and seizing the whole country." However, John exaggerated the intensity of the Slavic incursions since he was influenced by his confinement in Constantinople from 571 up until 579. Moreover, he perceived the Slavs as God's instrument for punishing the persecutors of the Monophysites. By 586, they managed to raid the western Peloponnese, Attica, Epirus, leaving only the east part of Peloponnese, which was mountainous and inaccessible. The final attempt to restore the northern border was from 591-605, when the end of conflicts with Persia allowed Emperor Maurice to transfer units to the north. However he was deposed after a military revolt in 602, and the Danubian frontier collapsed one and a half decades later (Main article: Maurice's Balkan campaigns).
In 785, Constantine VI conquers the Sclaviniae of Macedonia ('Sclavenias penes Macedoniam').

The Macedonian Slavs, Branichevans, Moravians, Timochans and Draguvites were absorbed by the Serbs and Bulgars. (Same people are in Serbian and Bulgarian population and rest of the neighbours today, but how many is the question?)



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506?dopt=Abstract
Abstract
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed.

Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups.
Villena 2001 claims that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the "Mycaenian Greeks",Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharans...

But if Macedonian Sclaviniae were real slavs how come they are one of the oldest European inhabitants?
 
Wrong Results

Serbia (Mirabal et al 2010), Macedonia FYROM (Pericic et al, 2005)

Serbia and Macedonia (FYROM)

I2a2 38,5%_______29,1 %
I1 7,8% __________ No data
R1a 14,5_________15,2%
R1b 4,5%_________5,1%
E1b1b1 17,3%______24,1%
J2 5,0____________6,3%
G2a 2,2% _________ No data



AND HERE IS THE REAL RESULTS.

Serbia (Mirabal et al 2010), Macedonia FYROM (Pericic et al, 2005)

Serbia and Macedonia (FYROM)

I2a2 38,5%_______29,1%
I1 7,8% __________ 5.0%
R1a 14,5_________15,2%
R1b 4,5%_________5,1%
E1b1b1 17,3%______24,1%
J2 5,6%____________12,7%
G2a 2,2% _________ 5,1%
N 3,3% _______________ 0%
L 0,6% _______________ 0%

Serbia 94,3% Total - Serbs
Macedonia (FYROM) 96,3% Total - Ethnic Macedonians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...oups_in_Europe
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...4/F2.large.jpg
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/10/1964.full.pdf+html

(I repeat this with another topic.)
DejaVu
Even better, you added missed.

And is there any difference?

Of course that does not exist and it is true that the Serbs and FYROM Macedonians are very close peoples.

Probably you not carefully read Dieckens analysis.

Dieckens
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/08/haplogroup-frequency-correlations-in.html
"Currently, I have collected frequency data for the main haplogroups found in the region (E3b, J2, I, R1a, R1b) for 16 populations."

Essential data are for five haplogroups that he took into consideration, because I1 and G2 do not change much the result, remains practically the same place (but complicates the analysis).


DejaVu
You use big words (ie. profanity) completely useless, and as you can see, I never reciprocate by big words, but soon you will see below the discussion of issues on which we discuss what are in fact the key issues.
 
There is no real fact what you are claiming that ethnic Macedonians are same as Serbs. You even tried to fabricate the genetic results, there is no trust in any Serbs today and there is enuff of evidence that Serbs have tried to erase the name Macedonians, thanks to your nationalist propaganda. All Balkan countries had enuff of you Serbs (does not mean Serbs are hated). And the test from Dienekes Pontikos, he is a Greek from Turkey, even that explains alot when he used wrong name "slavic Macedonians" who dont exist. There is only ethnic Macedonians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)
 
I just presented a scientific analysis and commented on the result in two sentences, as is evident from the picture and nothing more.
 

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