Mediterranean migration layers in Sicily and southern Italy

Santa Christina Gela...found lots of 1st cousin/2nd cousin marriages back in the day
 
Very interesting study.

According to my results, it said my first reference population was Greek, and my second was Tuscan. However, I find that to be odd, since it actually looks closer to Tuscan...

EaTeNC6.png


EDIT:

Perhaps, because my ancestors come specifically from the Ancient Greek colonies? My family is from central Puglia.
 
I'm from Southern Puglia.
Geno 2 NG Helix Results:
91% Italy & Southern Europe
5% Southwestern Europe
2% Eastern Europe

1st Ref. Pop. Greek
2nd Ref. Pop. Tuscan (Italy)
 
Salento said:
I'm from Southern Puglia.
Geno 2 NG Helix Results:
91% Italy & Southern Europe
5% Southwestern Europe
2% Eastern Europe

1st Ref. Pop. Greek
2nd Ref. Pop. Tuscan (Italy)
Click to expand...

Interesting results, similar to mine. I guess your southwestern Europe part comes from the when Puglia was part of the Spanish Empire. I would have guessed, I too might have had some ancestry from Iberia. Especially since some Spaniards have my grandmother's last name (so do some Frenchmen). But Iberia is actually the only place in Europe I don't have ancestry from. At any rate, its awesome you're 91% Italian; you beat me! :p
 
lol. My admixture is not very exciting.
 
It's highly unlikely these clusters have much to do with recent admixture, i.e. Spanish rule in various parts of Italy.

This test is looking at ancient admixture.
 
Angela said:
This test is looking at ancient admixture.
Click to expand...

Why do you say this? That is, I agree that Spanish rule likely had very little genetic impact on Italy. But do you know something about the Geno NG 2.0 test that leads you to say it "is looking at ancient admixture"?
 
Sephardic Jewish?
 
Salento said:
Sephardic Jewish?
Click to expand...

The higher levels of Near Eastern admixture can be explained by the history of Southern Italy. There's been various ethnic groups which traded across the whole Mediterranean Sea (Carthagians, Phoenicians and other Sea related people).
The Y-dna of South Italians suggest a recent Jewish and Phoenician geneflow along with weaker Arab one based on the study of haplotype J1 in the Italian population.

Most of the J1 in Italy (especially in Sicily) is under YSC76, there's a certain amount of diversity even at this level though, at least two branches can be labeled Phoenician at this stage:




  • ZS6057, Palermo (matches in Lebanon and Aleppo).
  • FGC8216 (including FGC8195), Palermo (matches a Lebanese "Sahely", this name literally means "from the coast" in Arabic), also found in individuals from Catania and Potenza.



Then we have at least one Jewish branch under YSC76 (M9119) found in an individual from Palermo as well as a Sicilian individual belonging to a branch under YSC76 which is probably Arabian in origin (FGC8224>FGC8223>BY66>BY86>ZS1585).

A couple of samples belong to FGC1723 (including FGC4422), which is a typically Arabian marker (not under YSC76), this seems restricted to Enna and Messina however.

The other branches of J1 have a more widespread distribution throughout Italy, at least three other markers are likely to be Phoenician or Levantine in origin, this includes:

  • L829 (comprising PF4852) which is found in Calabria and Campania (Salerno & Avellino), L829 is found in the coastal parts of the Levant (Lebanon, including among the Druze, and Ashkelon).
  • Z18292>ZS2589(>ZS2566) which is found in Calabria, Campania (Salerno again) and Frosinone, these samples have matches from the Balearic islands, Seville, Tunisia, Israel and Lebanon.
  • FGC4745 which is found in Campania (Salerno and Avellino), several Palestinian Christians belong to a branch of FGC4745.
Click to expand...

While the majority of Jews were being expelled during the Middle Ages but a some Jews converted to Christianity.
We also have to consider the long presence of Byzantine influence where a lot Greek merchants settled down in Italy and these people were come from various parts of the Byzantium.

There's also a significant IBD sharing with North African populations which is very low between North Italians and North Africans but certainly high between Sicilians, Calabrians and North African populations. Some weak level of North African ancestry which is highly ENF (Same as Bedouin and Early Neolithic farmers from the Levant) can drift the South Italian genome slightly more Southern position. (Suggesting the Red component can be easily misread as Middle Eastern instead of North African ancestry)

My own opinion consider both pre historic and recent migrations which has shaped the genetic patterns of modern Greek and Italian populations. It's certainly undeniable there's a significant recent Indo European like or Mesolithic ancestry in Greece, which suggest the effect of long Slavic presence on the Mainland, while the Islanders show different patterns being shifted slightly closer to Southern Italians and the Caucasus (CHG related admixture)
 
Back from banishment and still the same old, same old. Have you any interests other than Italian genetics? You have no profound wisdom to impart on other subjects?

Until you provide sources for your claims I'm not even going to read them carefully.

While you're at it post accurate percentages for frequencies for modern Italian populations in regard to specific yDna lineages.

Oh, and is your flag now in accordance with your posting location? You remember that rule, correct?
 
From a global perspecitve, both Southern Italians and Greek Islanders are close to one another. Mainland Greeks and Aberesche communities show a pull towards Balkans.

Screenshot-2017-05-17-11.27.10.jpg
 
Same old, same old. Don't you have anything new?

Keep it up and you'll get an infraction for spamming. Are we clear?
 
Hauteville said:
Actually only Sicily was conquered by saracens for a short time, Calabria, Basilicata and Puglia never conquered by them (except Bari for a really short time) and those saracens were not levantines but berbers and arabized spaniards/portuguese. So the extra-levantine compared to mainland Greece came not from saracens.
Click to expand...

My father's town, Altamura, was originally destroyed and depopulated by the Saracens. The area remained uninhabited for a couple centuries. In 1232, it was re-founded by Federico II. Thus, the original population there was wiped out; I'm related to the people who re-settled it.

A couple of centuries after Altamura was looted by the Saracens, it started to be inhabited again as emperor Frederick II refounded the city (1232) and ordered the construction of the large Altamura Cathedral, which became one of the most venerated sanctuaries in Apulia. In 1248, under pressure from Frederick, Pope Innocent IV declared Altamura exempt from the jurisdiction of the bishop of Bari, making it a "palatine church", that is the equivalent of a palace chapel..
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamura#The_new_city


My mother's town, Molfetta, remained as an independent sea-port, and was able to repel the Saracen assaults.

The first official document that mentions the city dates to November 925; it documents a civitas denominated Melfi, situated on a peninsula named Sant'Andrea. The city developed under Byzantine dominion, and was later conquered by the Lombards, who included it in the Duchy of Benevento. The city repelled repeated assaults by the Saracens. As an independent seaport, Molfetta traded with other Mediterranean markets, including Venice, Alexandria, Constantinople, Syria, Amalfi and Ragusa.
At the beginning of the 11th century the Normans arrived, and the autonomy that the city preserved helped foster its development as both a commercial port with the east, and as port of embarcation for pilgrims heading to the Holy Land. The Crusades permitted the city to assume a wider importance. Among the many pilgrims was Conrad of Bavaria, who was so enamoured of the city that he became venerated as San Corrado, the protecting saint of Molfetta. During the Angevin dominion the city succeeded in remaining autonomous. However, the arrival of the Aragonese kingdom to Southern Italy, spurred turbulent struggles between French, Spanish and Italians. These wars provoked death and destruction in the whole south of Italy: the Sack of Molfetta at the hands of the French, 18–19 July 1529, was an episode that stalled the economic rebirth of the city.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molfetta#History
 
Almost all of the Mediterranean coastlines of Spain, France, and Italy were subject to Saracen and then Ottoman attack. That's why for so many hundreds of years the coastal areas were abandoned and people moved inland to fortified hill towns where they were safe.

In Liguria and coastal Toscana, all the watch towers are still there. They're called "Saraceni" towers.

It wasn't only Muslim pirates either. Repeated sacking by Vikings and other northern groups caused the entire magnificent city of Luni to be abandoned, and its people, under their bishop, moved inland, founding many of the inland cities still occupied today.

Any significant genetic impact would have been on the home countries of the pirates, since any people unlucky enough not to get to the safety of the city walls were enslaved and taken back to home ports and slave marts.

This one is in Alassio. They were manned by men who had to keep watch and send light flares to the inland towns that ships were approaching.

torrione-saraceno-or-torrione-della-coscia-watchtower-alassio-liguria-picture-id607226461


Luni:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luni,_Italy

It was sacked by Vikings who got into the walls by pretending to be Christians. Their idiot leader thought it was Rome.

These are some of the towns they built inland:

e86bbab04ec661234265e0335b606f94_XL.jpg


12%20Caprigliola%20con%20lo%20sfondo%20del%20fiume%20Magra_bootstrap_res_photo.JPG


sarzana-2958.jpg
 
Fortified Towers and Castles surround the cost at the end of hill of the Italian boot every 3 miles or so : Torre Chianca, San Cataldo, Torre Specchia, San Foca, Roca Vecchia, Torre Dell'Orso, Otranto, Porto Badisco, .....
 
Is there any evidence of migrants from further east passing into Italy in order to take the journey to Ellis island? They would be integrated as "Italians", even though they were not. Just blend in as best you can until you get the America. Maybe even learn Italian. A lot of the original family names were Americanized anyway, so Its hard to know where they were from unless your family had church records. .
 
New Englander said:
Is there any evidence of migrants from further east passing into Italy in order to take the journey to Ellis island? They would be integrated as "Italians", even though they were not. Just blend in as best you can until you get the America. Maybe even learn Italian. A lot of the original family names were Americanized anyway, so Its hard to know where they were from unless your family had church records. .
Click to expand...

I've never heard of anything like that. There were Arbereshe who came to America and their descendants just tell people they're Italian, which they are, and of course they spoke Italian. The ones I know just think it's a complication of Italian history which Americans would neither understand nor care about.

Then there's the Croatians who have done the same, and they're not Italian, and some of them spoke Italian only as a second language. They're usually Dalmatians or from Istria, areas which were ruled by Italians for a certain amount of time. They didn't do it to be allowed to get into the country though. It's usually so they can open Northern Italian restaurants and seem authentic. They tell people their sometimes authentic, sometimes fake Italian first names and just don't mention the Croatian surnames. I don't think it's quite honest, but I know a lot of them and they're nice people and the food is good so...

I think a few Jews did that as well. Didn't a geneticist find out through the dodecad runs that his supposedly Italian grandfather was actually Ashkenazi?

Then there are Italian Jews who people think are just generic Italian, but nobody was lying, i.e. Vittorio Gassman, or Modigliani etc.
 
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