Putting an end to Greek/Albanian feuds

[Sakattack]

Okay, let's say that your own award winning Athenian greek university teacher is just teaching the greek students "anything"
Seriously, go speak to the Ministry of Education, not me. I couldn't care less what happens between the borders of Greece and Albania. I was just pointing out what greek scholars are saying, and that i partially agree with them.
She is a much better alternative that labnian or greek ultra-nationalists

Of course. Students, don't only have the right, but actually should be taught every aspect especially when it comes to controversial subjects. What is so... funny and... unbelievable? You live in the western world, right?

As for the bold, MEGA-LOL.

Dude, almost pissed my pants!

 

[Balkanite]

Of course. Students, don't only have the right, but actually should be taught every aspect especially when it comes to controversial subjects. What is so... funny and... unbelievable? You live in the western world, right?

As for the bold, MEGA-LOL.

Dude, almost pissed my pants!

She is only teaching them this version of history. Because it is the only one accepted by serious scholars
So no, your Greek state is not teaching their students about your delusions

 

[Sakattack]

Whenever you figure out the difference between State and University, come again.

Sent from my Robin using Tapatalk

 

[LABERIA]

No one asks to change the boundaries or things of that kind. What the Balkans have to do is to look at Brussels and not towards Moscow. The second is justice and respect on ethnic minorities. If there is no justice for the crime of the past, we are back on the starting point, conflicts are inevitable. When it comes to respect for minorities, Albania and Kosova are an example to be followed by other Balkan countries.

 

[LABERIA]

I have been following you from the beginning of this (one more, God...) totally meaningless flame war. It's very funny, though, to call people "nationalists" and to put yourself out of this bag.

You obviously belong there.

How come that somebody who OPENLY CLAIMS foreign territory, as you did in one of those first posts of yours about the European borders, is not an ultra nationalist?

You continue to spam us again and again with this Efthimiou lady (don't know her). Nihilist scientists are kinda common in Greece, I would say proportionally the same as the nationalistic ones. In any case, what a single person says, it's not the Bible. Not happy to explain this to an adult.

Funny how you try to play mother Teresa though and state that you hope for peace and smooth neighboring relations between Albanians and Greeks, when in first place you threw a million accusations on your beloved neighbors and want to keep for yourself some 1/5 of your beloved neighbors' land. (you did the same with FYROM, from whom you want nothing less than the WHOLE of their land, LOL, and of course from - no brainer - Serbia regarding Kosovo). What an openminded lad with the best of intentions! Amazed!

To end it, some ultranationalist Greek would claim Albanian territory too (you know the Greeks in Northern Epirus at least till now speak their language and identify as Greeks) and have almost the same, if not more, "rights" to do that.

The Arvanites in Greece are fully assimilated since LONG time ago, they have 100% Greek consciousnesses and of course identify so. Back on the day, they used to number some respectable amount of the Greek pop, nobody denies it. That was, though, some centuries ago, things changed, mixture happened, they got normally integrated. There is no "minority" issue, try to wake up.

PS: The fact that you became insulting and almost bullied a a person/member who's level in English happened to be lower than yours (Yetos), speaks for itself.

There is an contradiction in your words. If you don't know her, you can not take conclusions.
She is one of the most important Greek scholars and an important expert about the Greek Revolution. She has study in Sorbone, France. It's time to give an end to this things, Fallmerayer is a criminal an idiot, etc, Efthimiou is nihilist, this is leftist, this is jewish spy, another one is retard. Sometimes i have the impression that half of the Greece are leftist and half are Jewish. Of course this is not true but this is how you greeks describe your people. It's time to accept the history as it is without the glasses of Megali Ideas. You have to show respect for your scholars and of course for your institutions:

Who is Maria Efthimiou?

http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/culture-arts/article/maria-efthimiou-awarded-for-her-dedication-in-teaching

Maria Efthimiou: Awarded for her dedication in teaching

For the 23rd consecutive year, the institution of “best academic performance” was awarded to History professor Maria Efthimiou, for her dedication in teaching.

The President of the Hellenic Republic, Karolos Papoulias, gave an honorary award to professor Maria Efthimiou, professor of History and Archeology at the University of Athens.
Maria Efthimiou teaches World History and Greek History of the Turkish occupation period. During the past seven years she teaches history in Municipalities, cultural centers, jails and rehabilitation centers, taking part in the free education that the University of Athens offers. Up to now, she has taught more than 15 thousand students.

 

[spartan owl]

what you do is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority or argumentum ad verecundiam .Efthimiou is not even a permanent professor but a substitute professor.
On the other hand the vice minister of education who did not only studied in sorbone but he was a teacher at sorbone claims just the opposite, and he goes further by saing that the albanians agreed to change their school books because what they claimed about the chams were bullshits.
[FONT=&quot]είχαμε συναντήσει ήδη τους Αλβανούς για να αλλάξουν τα βιβλία τους και μας έκανε ευχάριστη έκπληξη ότι οι Αλβανοί είχαν φέρει ήδη πολύ διορθωμένα τα βιβλία τους, αφαίρεσαν αυτά τα οποία λένε, τα φρικαλέα για τους Τσάμηδες.[/FONT]

 

[Sakattack]

Thanks LAB for giving me a second big laugh for today.

(I still look forward for the time that some ultranationalist greek step in here and finally start this war flame with you. This thing that you ask for everytime. The lower the level, the bigger the pop corn bag )

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[Balkanite]

είχαμε συναντήσει ήδη τους Αλβανούς για να αλλάξουν τα βιβλία τους και μας έκανε ευχάριστη έκπληξη ότι οι Αλβανοί είχαν φέρει ήδη πολύ διορθωμένα τα βιβλία τους, αφαίρεσαν αυτά τα οποία λένε, τα φρικαλέα για τους Τσάμηδες.

This is an English forum my friend

 

[LeBrok]

Doesn't the title of this thread seems "a bit" ironic now?

 

[Balkanite]

Doesn't the title of this thread seems "a bit" ironic now?

I'll agree with you on that. Very much indeed..
At least it is keeping the feuds away from the serious posts.
I actually didn't think people would be offended by me uploading a video by a greek scholar who actually proposes a theory which actually in the middle of the nationalistic albbnian version and the nationalistic greek versions.
But apparently one has to agree either with greek nationalists, or albanian nationalists if you want anyone on your side.
Nationalistic greeks say that only 10-20% of greece were albanians. Nationalistic albanians claim 60-70%
Maria Eftimiou(in the video) who is a greek (non-nationalistic) scholar, and she says 40%, which is in between the two nationalistic delusions.

 

[Yetos]

@ Balkanite

first of all you are not an Arvanitis,

I know Arvanites well.
I am from the Clan that liberated Arvanitan part of Euboia.
and When Arvanites were Free, my Clan was still under Ottoman empire.

The Greek state never touch a piece of land of Arvanites,
in fact encouraged them in Universities, academias, and military.

So you are not an Arbanite,

WHAT YOU ARE THEN?

you are either a Cham
either a Dudumis
either a Haldoupis,

All the above served Ottoman army,
had Turkish identity,
and also had priviledges,
Most of them were exchanged at 1920-23 by an international treaty,
Those who accepted Greek nationality stayed,
the ones who stayed and at WW2 start problem attacking Greek villages under the umbrella of occupators,
the known Chams of Saloufa and Xyllia is a case closed,

As for Eythymioy reward
it is clearly for new methods of teaching
a reward given every year to teachers that promote new methods of teaching,
dedicated to Xanthopoulos, the First Greek teacher- Physicist that manage to do all his lessons with personal computer for every student at an amphitheatro.

So the reward has nothing to do with she teaches, neither what she says, neither about the video.


about Kossovo and Albania and Fyrom

USA senator Rhurabaker said before Eythymioy at Albania TV about the Big Albania and the plan of USA for Balkans,

then Timothy Less a geopolitical strategies analyst expand the plan
3 great powers North of Greece,

1 Greater Albania
2 Greater Serbia
3 Greater Croatia

I suggest read the thread Balkanian dissagreements

I wrote about that plan,
but it is a plan.
We do not know if it will come true,
cause Monte Negro is already at NATO,

Do you know the whole plan?

So Eythymiou tell us nothing.

 

[Balkanite]

@ Balkanite

first of all you are not an Arvanitis,

either a Dudumis
either a Haldoupis,

Nice. You ran out of argumentation, so you turn to racism and harrasment?

 

[Balkanite]

USA senator Rhurabaker said before Eythymioy at Albania TV about the Big Albania and the plan of USA for Balkans,

No, Maria Eftimiou said it in 2011, Dana Rohrabacher said it in 2016.
So Actually that just proves that the things Eftimiou said are beginning to come true.

 

[Yetos]

No, Maria Eftimiou said it in 2011, Dana Rohrabacher said it in 2016.
So Actually that just proves that the things Eftimiou said are beginning to come true.

oh boy,

and I am still talking with you,
search books from 2002
and a papper from Banja Luka with date March 2009
the plan is named amberfox2, and has to do with restabilizing or unstabilizing balkans after the ex-Yugoslavia collapse,
so foreign (non balkan) powers gain more control.

 

[Balkanite]

so foreign (non balkan) powers gain more control.

Foreign powers already have the power of the balkans. No plans will change that.
The only thing that can change that, is if Albanians, Romanians and Greeks put their differences aside and start acting as united balkanites.
As long as the world can keep us in this state of hostility against each other, we will never get as much power as the balkans had 2000 years ago.

 

[Yetos]

Foreign powers already have the power of the balkans. No plans will change that.

I stay on that,
and expand,
you can now search and realize what is going on happening at Balkans and Turkey, same time?
that is a good start to analyze,
start with amber fox 2,
and try to see also the Albanian desicion of high counsil about the oil treaty among Greece Italy and Albania.
there you will start realize what is going on today, at Aimos.
stabiling means less troops, destabilizing mean more troops,

 

[Bergin]

I have no interest in this dispute. So I want to understand a bit the facts.

I watched that video for the first time yesterday (thanks balkanite). I don't care how famous or infamous this professor is.
I care if the facts (not the interpretations) are true. Her interpretation in terms of borders I will not take as science but as opinion - so no facts.

Please, my greek friends, are the facts she mentions true (documents she mentions and their text)?
For me she is talking about the history of modern Greece, and the contribution of arvanitas at that time to the creation of the state.

Honestly I am proud that some albanian-origined people made such a contribution to the creation of the state (depending on our answer).

Did they get sufficient credit, over credit, no credit? Is there any Greek contributor in the creation of Albania that we are forgetting to give credit?

For me these are the relevant information, because the will determine Our future relations.

Best

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

I have no interest in this dispute. So I want to understand a bit the facts.

I watched that video for the first time yesterday (thanks balkanite). I don't care how famous or infamous this professor is.
I care if the facts (not the interpretations) are true. Her interpretation in terms of borders I will not take as science but as opinion - so no facts.

Please, my greek friends, are the facts she mentions true (documents she mentions and their text)?
For me she is talking about the history of modern Greece, and the contribution of arvanitas at that time to the creation of the state.

Honestly I am proud that some albanian-origined people made such a contribution to the creation of the state (depending on our answer).

Did they get sufficient credit, over credit, no credit? Is there any Greek contributor in the creation of Albania that we are forgetting to give credit?

For me these are the relevant information, because the will determine Our future relations.

Best

I'm not sure you have no interest but I'll accept it.
Why do you write 'arvanitas' and not 'arvanites'? Does it make any difference to you?
What is true is that Arvanites have made a big impact in Attica(apart from Athens), S. Euboea and NE Peloponnese and a few islands near Attica and smaller elsewhere. Some were important for the revolution, some irrelevant.
Their language is supposed to be more closely related to Tosk Albanian, often with more Greek elements. You can see the greek elements of Suliote Albanian for yourself if you read Botsaris' dictionary which exists online.
They get credit but as Hellenes not as Shqiptars since they participated in the creation of modern Hellenic nation.

 

[Bergin]

1 - I'm not sure you have no interest but I'll accept it.
Why do you write 'arvanitas' and not 'arvanites'? Does it make any difference to you?

2 - They get credit but as Hellenes not as Shqiptars since they participated in the creation of modern Hellenic nation.

1. Thank you for the acceptance. No I don't care about a letter. And you are right, the correct English version is Arvanites.

2. Yes Arvanites are Greek (Hellenic if you prefer) - no doubt, we are talking of centuries. Similarly, the Arberesh in Italy are Italian - no doubt.

Am I wrong to conclude that modern Hellenes have an Arvanites component that would in a certain way act as a bridge between our countries? Similarly we do have Greek speaking Albanians that should also reinforce that bridge.

Than why are 'we' fighting?
I will try to put my efforts to establish the bridge.
Where will you put yours?

 

[LABERIA]

I'm not sure you have no interest but I'll accept it.
Why do you write 'arvanitas' and not 'arvanites'? Does it make any difference to you?
What is true is that Arvanites have made a big impact in Attica(apart from Athens), S. Euboea and NE Peloponnese and a few islands near Attica and smaller elsewhere. Some were important for the revolution, some irrelevant.
Their language is supposed to be more closely related to Tosk Albanian, often with more Greek elements. You can see the greek elements of Suliote Albanian for yourself if you read Botsaris' dictionary which exists online.
They get credit but as Hellenes not as Shqiptars since they participated in the creation of modern Hellenic nation.

I want to explain something here. Suliotes were not Arvanites. Arvanites are Albanians who migrated from South Albania, i.e. Epir in Greece(there are also some Ghegs from North Albania among them). To put it simple, Kolokotronis was Christian Arvanite. Ali Farmaki was a Muslim Arvanite. Marko Boçari and the rest of Suliotes were Albanians, Christian Çams.