sparkey
Great Adventurer
- Messages
- 2,250
- Reaction score
- 352
- Points
- 0
- Location
- California
- Ethnic group
- 3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U4a (Cornish)
1. The shortage of I1 remains found in the region. If I1 had been there for a sizable chunk of time, more ancient I1 should be showing up... I did find some I1 remains, in a cemetery in Central Germany that dates back to 450 A.D.-550 A.D. (Pipicananus had claimed 700-800 A.D. as the introduction period so he was off there) , but this overall I1 shortage does make me think. Is it due to burial practices? Doggerland being underwater? Or the fact that I1 was further north or east?
The reason we haven't found any is because we haven't sampled any, as I kept trying to explain to pipinnacanus. The Danish study will be the first prehistoric one where there is a reasonable expectation that we might find some I1. And even then, it's not a sure thing, even if the Jutland or Northern Germany theories are correct. It depends on the sample sizes. And even if we get huge sample sizes and show that there was no I1 in Denmark in the Mesolithic, we still have to figure out where it was. I don't know of a good reason to assume northeast. If Denmark and Germany were ruled out, I'd guess directly east, like maybe Poland or even Belarus. Belarus is intriguing because, although there is no current evidence of ancient I1 there AFAIK, it is severely undersampled. But I1 is just too young in Finland to look closely there.
2. The Nordic meta-myths having their origins in Finland.
That doesn't seem correct. Norse myths are largely shared with other Germanic groups; Finnish myths are largely shared with Estonian myths. Am I misunderstanding what you mean?
3. The I1 map distribution map... epicenter is in between East Sweden and West Finland.
Yeah, but almost all that Finnish I1 is I1d3. Try to figure out the distribution of the earliest branches instead of downstream clades like I1d3 if you want to determine I1 origins. Although much rarer, I1-Z131 tells a much more important story in terms of origins than I1d3 does. It is distributed in Belgium, the Czech Republic, Germany, etc. Central Europe again? Hm...
The age of I1 and it's TMRCA has bounced around enough at this point to have me frustrated. Until this genetic dating gets more precise, we might have to look at other methods to start dating I1.
How much do you think it has bounced around? Nordtvedt's methodology has kept it at between 4000-5000YBP for as long as I can remember, and Robb always seems to have a systematically older date, but not too much, and his SNP dating agrees roughly as well. Klyosov hasn't updated his 4000YBP estimate, I don't think, which roughly corresponds to Nordtvedt's estimate for the Z58/L22 branching event.