Palermo Trapani
Active member
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 941
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Italian-Sicily-South
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- I2-M223>I-Y5362
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H2A3
I have highlighted the J2b-L283 parts that caught my attention in my initial post. I have no big interest in R1b-Z2103 or R1b-L51>>>P312>U152+ or R1b-M269>L23 (on a macro scale) research either. Regarding Italy there's enough data to conclude that U152+ likely makes up the vast majority of BCE R1b-M269>L23 (which is, again, a broad nomenclature) samples. Certain R1b-Z2103 more often than not should have come from somewhere in the Balkans, I don't disagree with that at all.
Them using macrohaplogroup designations doesn't imply the coverage of the samples is not good enough to determine a more exact clade placement. Most academics use macrohaplogroup designations (often times at least). For instance they talk about J2-M172/M12, meaning "J2b" samples, but they further elaborate on them belonging to clades under samples which in turn are verified to belong to L283.
mount123: If my post came off as flippant, that was not my intention. I am interested in which groups from where and when first brought Proto-Italic languages into Italy. I would like to see academics for example get more information on the Elymians and Sicels of Sicily (we have some research on the Sicani territory).
When I speak of dogmatics in this context, it is more related to which R1b first merged with Bell Beakers in Italy. Did they come from Central Europe just directly North of the Alps or more from the Balkans? Maybe Both and merge with Italian Bell Beakers. That is an interesting question that can be tested with more data to provide a clear answer.
Now I will confess that the fact that there is not a direct association with Corded Ware does kind of make me giggle inside, but that is more dealing with the WASP elitist country club types of my childhood who use to say the ancient Romans looked and sounded like the English Actors on on Masterpiece Theatre shows done by the BBC. Dating myself, Alistair Cooke was the host (who was a super intelligent guy who I liked to listen to as a kid watching those old PBS shows).