Immigration The sad reality of heritable cognitive differences vs. immigration policies

[bicicleur 2]

How hard is to imagine that you could ask them the questions orally, granted you could speak their language? Now, when you already evoke our ability to travel in time, it is not less impossible to build schools and try to teach them subjects from our times, or bring them here to our times and put in our schools. After a decade or so we can run same written tests for all.
I have more practical idea, let's put existing hunter gatherers (the closest proxy of mesolithic ones) in schools and test them. Oh wait, it was done already. How are they doing in our schools? Right. This is one of the clues I'm talking about. Put them togeeeeeeeether...

For me the IQ is not a holy figure that tells all about a men's intelectual capacities.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I've forgot YOU told me that, lol.
Is mindset genetic or nurtured?

You are the only one who knows the answer.

 

[LeBrok]

See Flores man as example of the opposite.

I'm not exactly sure of your point on efficiency? That small brain Flores died off as well as big brain UP guys?

I didn't say it was a settled case. Maybe it is true that thing got wired better. But really, this is n=1 and brain size appears to roughly correlate with IQ.
https://neuroscience.stanford.edu/news/ask-neuroscientist-does-bigger-brain-make-you-smarter

Yes, when you compare moder brain to moder brain. They say the size/intelligence correlates at 0.40.

 

[LeBrok]

For me the IQ is not a holy figure that tells all about a men's intelectual capacities.

That's why I'm using a general term of "intelligence" and also other skills like "adaptability", "memory". "attention", and few more.

 

[LeBrok]

You are the only one who knows the answer.

Take under consideration that between two of us I'm the one who meets and talks to real hunter gatherers very often, and I see news on TV about them almost every day. Do you?

 

[bicicleur 2]

That's why I'm using a general term of "intelligence" and also other skills like "adaptability", "memory". "attention", and few more.

ok, so IQ is just an indication

 

[epoch]

I'm not sure precisely what you're asking. Plus, that's a bit of a personal question.

I phrased it provocatively. And I meant you in the plural sense. What I was referring at was the remark that you could take any child of around average intelligence and drill them in the kind of math that is on these high school level tests. Why isn't someone doing this with black kids? I mean if that is what it takes then that is what it takes. I read the other part of your response and I mostly agree to it. But blacks fare rather bad in the US - as i understand - as well as in Europe. So why doesn't someone, or any schooling system take them that step further as anyone KNOWS it will make such a difference?

I'll answer, though, since I feel rather strongly about this topic. Did I have extensive IQ testing done? Yes, they tested both my brother and me. Did we go to extensive drilling clinics after school and on week-ends? No, we didn't. For one thing they didn't exist in our area when I was in high school, for another we didn't have that kind of money when I first went to high school because we hadn't been here very long, and my father was still building his business, and third, I doubt my father would have sent us.

As it turned out, we didn't need them, although I won't go into detail because I despise people who go around telling other people about their scores on the SATs. In terms of school work, I was driven from childhood. I took an A- as a personal insult. My parents would take my books away when it got too late. I can't tell you how often they would say to me, just do your best, you don't have to be perfect all the time. What's in your nature is in your nature, though. I can still obsess about making the perfect meal or having the perfect roses in my garden.

As for these clinics for children that now exist, particularly in urban areas with significant numbers of East and South Asian immigrants, I'm totally opposed to them. There was a book published recently here in the U.S. called "The Tiger Mom", written by an East Asian mother highlighting the regimen under which her children lived. We have some right in my neighborhood...hours of homework, hours of after school and week end clinics, the only time not spent on academics or drilling spent on drilling on a musical instrument...no sports, no clubs, virtually no social life, no tv, no time to just dream, for God's sake. I think it's a form of child abuse. If it doesn't drive them to suicide or quiet madness, it produces, in my opinion, people with no social skills and no ability to be creative or think outside the box. Plus, it doesn't foster any leadership qualities whatsoever. As my parents understood ahead of their time, there has to be a balance.

If your child needs some extra help with one subject or another, help them yourself or pay for the occasional tutor, but this? Absolutely not. They need to socialize, they need to play sports for health reasons, for mental health, and for learning team work. The most important thing, however, in my opinion, is that you do everything you can to help your children develop into kind, honest, hard working, well-adjusted people with a capacity to love and be loved, and who are making the most of what my teachers used to call their God given gifts, whatever they may be, and to whatever level they have them.

The bolded text is exactly the issue. For some reason a number of ethnic groups don't behave the same. Trust me, I made a colossal mess of my schooling, but in the end I surfaced - after I wised up. But that text alone is enough to basically call into question the unanimous opinion of educational psychologists. Despite their failures the smart will overcome. Why aren't we seeing that with the ethnicities that fare so bad?

 

[epoch]

For me the IQ is not a holy figure that tells all about a men's intelectual capacities.

IQ predicts someone's abilities very well, BOTH in the mathematical area as in the language area. That is probably the most clear sign it is something "real": People who are good at math mostly are also better at languages, read more, have the tendency to discuss more brightly. That is what is meant by "g" factor, the hidden overall smartness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)

 

[epoch]

I've forgot YOU told me that, lol.
Is mindset genetic or nurtured?

ALL human traits bear a heritable component and are therefore candidate for selection:

http://ctg.cncr.nl/news/2015/polderman__posthuma_publish_largest_twin_study_ever_in_nature__

Political opinion even has a clear genetic component. Not only do sibling test show it, there are even hot spots on the genome spotted associated with political affiliation.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/is-politics-partly-guided-by-our-genes/

http://www.matthewckeller.com/16.Hatemi.et.al.2010.Nuc.fam.ajps.pdf
http://www.vipbg.vcu.edu/vipbg/nathan//publications/Hatemi2011.pdf

 

[Yetos]

heritage, will, closer enviroment, and outer enviroment,

need these 4 to raise IQ,

IQ is like a plant, no matter the best genes, or hybrid etc etc, if no will, and no correct enviroment, stays low/average,
and growing IQ is ussually to directions,
I do not have high at letters/labguage
but when done tests I always got very very high, almost perfect at geometrical,
reason, my family enviroment push me there, and my will,

besides all IQ tests have to do with time, on how fast someone can understand how the 'model' works, but not to create the 'model', or how to use it,

anyway with term heritage I mean clearly genes, we all know genes that can create mental or low observation etc problems
will is the effort to raise IQ, since many modern earning money as a measure (I consider that stupid), we also see many that sell even the family fortune, to live with different style, although at IQ tests have high rate
closer enviroment is know from antique, like, kid wich grow at family with high review, critique tend to be judjes, etc music and arts, logic and mathematics, gym and athletes, violence and crime, or family deaths etc etc
outer enviroment is the sources to keep healty, acces basic needs, food, sexual health, alchool, smoking, etc, and mainly incentives, (example I am not expecting an inuit to make a parthenon, but i am expecting him to do something different for solution)
when one of my grant aunts (bride from inland mountain Greece) see first time the sea, at about the age about 16 she said πω πω τι μεγαλο ποταμ' (wow, what a big river)


PS
the boys from Brazil, an old book/movie,
genes are only a % of high IQ

 

[Tomenable]

It must be all the fish they eat!

Fish contain large amounts of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), don't they?:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...d-be-making-people-stupid?p=481435#post481435

What other food contains DHA ??? It seems to be very good for brain.

 

[LeBrok]

ALL human traits bear a heritable component and are therefore candidate for selection:

http://ctg.cncr.nl/news/2015/polderman__posthuma_publish_largest_twin_study_ever_in_nature__

Political opinion even has a clear genetic component. Not only do sibling test show it, there are even hot spots on the genome spotted associated with political affiliation.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/is-politics-partly-guided-by-our-genes/

http://www.matthewckeller.com/16.Hatemi.et.al.2010.Nuc.fam.ajps.pdf
http://www.vipbg.vcu.edu/vipbg/nathan//publications/Hatemi2011.pdf

You are preaching to the choir. I was about to point it to bicicleur.

 

[Serena]

Hm... Feel like I prefer justice to "the truth"

 

[ThirdTerm]

Black Britons' average IQ is around 95, which is 5 points below the White British average, and British Asians' IQ scores are not significantly below White Britons. Genetic factors may account for the 5 point difference but when it comes to developing countries, it's the lack of education that is lowering their IQ scores. The IQ gap between White Irish and Traveller Irish is purely environmental and Irish Travellers' IQ scores are below 90, which is similar to those who live in the Third World. Irish Travellers' educational status is considerably lower than that of their settled peers. For 54.8% of Travellers, primary school education is the highest level of education they obtained just like the vast majority of Third World immigrants.

 

[Athiudisc]

Hm... Feel like I prefer justice to "the truth"

That's an interesting comment. What does it mean?