Things that make the US different from other developed countries

Ask anyone in a poor, undeveloped country if they had the chance to emigrate to another country where would they like to go, France, Germany, Italy, anywhere else in Europe, or the U.S.?

I think many would say "the U.S."
 
Golgo_13 said:
Ask anyone in a poor, undeveloped country if they had the chance to emigrate to another country where would they like to go, France, Germany, Italy, anywhere else in Europe, or the U.S.?

I think many would say "the U.S."

Appearances can be deceiving as the saying goes :blush:
 
Alright, I hope I can remember everything.

@Regional pride - I believe that you can count south Louisiana as its own region. Most southern Louisianians feel as though we are not a part of the South as it is viewed by most people, and that even the northern part of the state is not the same as the southern part. In fact, we usually refer to anything north of Alexandria as "the North," call people in north Louisiana "southern yankees," and say that northern Louisiana is part of either Arkansas or Texas. Also, I had heard some people saying that we should be our own entity, because we are so different.

Now, on the local level, differences between towns and cities can be pretty heated at times. When I was in high school, my town had a few nemeses. One was a town to the north of us, another a town to the east, and another was one of the adjoining parishes. It was a bad idea to let your origin known in any of those towns if you were from mine, unless you didn't mind being jumped. Also, the people from Baton Rouge, as well as some other towns on the east bank (of the Mississippi), would look down on us "westbankers." So we had to deal with comments from them like "so do you live in a cane field?" I think that for the most part, however, this was just high school stupidity and immaturity, although for some people it didn't stop.

@Owning guns - [copied and pasted, courtesy of mikecash]:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
Fugitives from justice.
Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
Illegal aliens.
Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.

Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

@Drinking beer on a hot day - I generally think that this is a bad idea. After all, alcohol will dehydrate you, and you don't need to help nature out on a hot day, so having this right wouldn't be so important to me. I have even heard that water is better taken lukewarm, so that you don't change your body temperature too quickly. Of course, this seems a bit hard to believe. How much could a liter of water change your body temperature?

Anyway this is all that I can remember for now. :wave:
 
I Hate To Admit....

ability to own guns and carry one concealed is one of the
most important rights I enjoy. I'm just a big fraidy cat and a gun gives me a (?false?) sence of security.

Frank

:blush:
 
> Why can any American possess a gun from age 18, but can't drink until 21. Is there more need for people
> to possess a gun earlier than being able to drink a beer ?If not, why is the law like that in the US ?

You're coming at this from a European way of thinking -- that is, it is up to the government to grant you rights and privileges. The American way -- although not properly heeded -- is that its the people that grant the government powers, not the other way around. In other words, people should be able to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don't intrude on the rights of other people. Young people started intruding on the rights of other people by drinking, driving and killing them. Hence laws were passed to restrict their freedom to drink. There has been no similar need to restrict gun ownership for law-abiding individuals.

Unfortunately the American government has a habit of trying to grab more power than it is authorized and infringing on the peoples' Constitutional rights.

> Americans have a middle name (only one, right ?) and usually mention it or the initial.

Americans have 0, 1, or more middle names. What you seem to continually ignore is that Americans come from just about everywhere in the world. Hence almost all traditions are represented. But I would agree that probably the majority of people have a single middle name. It is not usually mentioned or used except in official documents, though some people use their middle name as their first name because they like it better.

> Americans have a tendency to name the first son the same as his father

It happens but probably not as frequently as you may think. This doesn't happen anywhere else in the world? Then perhaps you actually have touched on something interesting finally. Could this be a tradition born in America and not imported?

> I felt like discussing the difference between Americans and other Westerners (+Japan), as it could be an interesting topic. Why would that be a problem ?

It's not a problem but you didn't act like you wanted to discuss this. You started off non-constructively by making generalizations and promoting stereotypes rather than asking questions and fostering discussion.
 
I name my son after any damn person I choose.

Man, I have to deal with Japan bashing AND America bashing.

BTW, those Germans spat on Lance Armstrong instead of respecting him for overcoming cancer and winning his 6th Tour de France.

Duo said:
Appearances can be deceiving as the saying goes :blush:

But nothing hurts like the truth, as the saying goes.
 
Golgo_13 said:
Ask anyone in a poor, undeveloped country if they had the chance to emigrate to another country where would they like to go, France, Germany, Italy, anywhere else in Europe, or the U.S.?

I think many would say "the U.S."

I am not sure this is true. Europe get more immigrants from Africa (including North African Arabic countries) than the US, eventhough Europe is touger on immigration laws.

Many people around the world only know the US from Hollywood movies or hearsay. They also know that the US is an immigration country, where chances to immigrate and start a new life are higher than in Europe. The US gets more immigrants from Latin America and East Asia because it's nearer and easier to go there for them. Another problem with migrating to Europe is choosing one country and language. English is so widespread and spoken even in developping countries that the US or Canada are favorite destination for emigration. Then the US society might be more tolerant of people who do not speak the country's language and know the local customs than European countries, because of the US was founded as an immigrant country. That has nothing to do with quality of life for non-immigrants.
 
mdchachi said:
In other words, people should be able to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don't intrude on the rights of other people. Young people started intruding on the rights of other people by drinking, driving and killing them. Hence laws were passed to restrict their freedom to drink. There has been no similar need to restrict gun ownership for law-abiding individuals.

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you saying that reckless gun owners have not intruded on the rights to life liberty and the persuit of happiness in the same way reckless drinkers have?

In 2001, according to the CDC, there were 29,573 firearm deaths in America

In 2002, according MADD, there were 17,448 alcohol related-crashes resulting in death.

There, are, however, more than 500,000 alcohol related injuries reported annually in the U.S.

Regardless, 29k people is roughly the population of the town where my mother lives. It is roughly 2/3 the turnout at Safeco Stadium when the Mariners are having a good day. 29k people is also roughly equivalent to the undergrad population at the University of Washington. 29k is 29 times the number of GI's killed in Iraq (the number was 900 on 7/21).

mdchachi said:
There has been no similar need to restrict gun ownership for law-abiding individuals.

Are you sure about this?
 
mdchachi said:
You're coming at this from a European way of thinking -- that is, it is up to the government to grant you rights and privileges. The American way -- although not properly heeded -- is that its the people that grant the government powers, not the other way around.

You seem to have strange conceptions of how European people think. European would generally care about something being logical and reasonable, rather than whether they really want it (whimsically) or think they have the "right" to. One of the most puerile attitude I have found among Americans is their conception of "right to do something". People want to have all the rights and freedoms, as if they were the most immature egoists that didn't give a damn of the society they were living in.

Rights and liberies only exists as long as they do not infringe on other people's. This is one of the most basic logic we are taught in Europe and that seem to be missing in American minds. Japanese go much further even than Europeans, by always thinking about others first before acting. I admit that all Westerners have a selfish tendency of causing troubles just because it's not technically forbidden, as a form of provocation or sheer disdain of others. Yes, Europeans are guilty, but I feel Americans are the paradigm of this "freedom and rights" mentality. That is why Japanese usually try to settle conflicts peacefully and apologize more than necessary, trying to understand the other side's point of view and feeling, while we Westerners only care about ourselves and ending the winner. That is why Japanese don't like going to court or reporting problems with neighbours or within the family to the police, while Americans sue people and companies for any little caprice. Europeans are somewhere in between. For some reason, I feel that French people are the closer to Americans among all Europeans.


> Americans have a tendency to name the first son the same as his father

This doesn't happen anywhere else in the world? Then perhaps you actually have touched on something interesting finally. Could this be a tradition born in America and not imported?

Well, it doesn't happen anymore in Europe, but as I said, I found some cases among my ancestors about 300-400 years ago. Could it be that it was common at that time in Europe, that the first immigrants to the 13 colonies imported that tradition, and that it has survived only in the US (maybe Canada ?), but has now disappeared from Europe ? The naming of senior and junior might be an American invention.

Golgo_13 said:
I name my son after any damn person I choose.

That you for this perfect example of what I call American obsessio with "rights and liberties". Of course, you are right. You are free to name your offspring the way you want - even "computer" or "broken condom" or "Ramses" or "Jesus" if you want (btw, some Spanish speakers do their their sons "Jesus" :silly: ), but even Japanese people (in Japan) I talked to would find it very strange to name their children like them (lots of European, though not all, feel the same way). I think that one of the parents toughest responsibility (if they do have some, which is in fact rare) is giving a name to their children that will be acceptable in the society where they will grow up (thinking long-term, with possible migration to other parts of the world) AND be reasonably good-sounding or fashionable so as not to be segregated, AND (the most difficult) part, imagine what it would feel like to live with that name and what difference in character will the name bring to the child as he/she grows up and identify with its sounding and possible connotation (same name as a famous historical person ? particular meaning in the root ?).

When I was talking about immature people boasting selfishly that they have the freedom or right to do this or that but did not actually care about the consequences on other people (and/or themselves), giving stupid names to one's children is obviously included. I am not talking about having the same name as the father (this is perfectly acceptable, especially in North America).

Often, reason is more important than rights or freedoms. (Don't take it personally, I am just talking in general in the world).
 
Europe----------------------------America
girls with hairy armpits--------------shaved armpits
fat middle aged people--------------fat middle aged people
Lu Big Mac-------------------------simply "Big Mac"
a % of the population who are------a % of the population who are
a@@h*les--------------------------a@@h*les
frog's leg's-------------------------KFC
hot Scandinavian girls--------------Californian girls
tyrannical history------------------tyrannical present
hard core French who hate---------Texans
everything not French
futbol------------------------------football
soccer riots-------------------------race riots
scared people-----------------------scared people with guns
underage drinking--------------------underage drinking and cars
people who identify themselves-------people who identify themselves
by small regions-----------------------by larger regions
fast trains---------------------------trains
Indian food--------------------------Mexican food
EuroDisney--------------------------Disney
many countries----------------------many states
Indian taxi drivers-------------------Indian taxi drivers
angry Germans----------------------New Yorkers
 
Do you mean that some fathers do honor their offspring by naming them after themselves ? Of course, it is not the child who decides to honor his father by choosing his own name, so that means the father must really have a pretty high self-esteem to "honor his son of his name" ! :mad:

Hawaiian custom is to have at least 7 or 8 names, all of which have different purposes and different meanings for certain people. You've got the name that appeared in a dream to your birthmother, of which only she and you are supposed to know, you've got popular nicknames, and you've got your official name. Mine's four long, but if I decide to (under U.S. law) legally add my mother's last name then it becomes five. My name was supposed to be given to my great-grandfather, but it was discarded for some reason and passed through the male side until it reached me. Of course, according to my mom, she was totally unaware of the significance of the name and simply gave me my full name by pure luck, i.e., she thought they were significant names to her at the time.

@the gun issue: it's one of those things that state and federal governments constantly fight each other on and rarely agree. Someone mentioned that the First Admendment was the most important because it came first; if the admendments are ranked in order of importance then guns were a pretty big deal back in the day because the Second Admendment expressly provides for its citizens the uninfringable right to bear arms.

What Americans call the Bill of Rights are just the famous "ten admendments" that were added to the U.S. Constitution back in its original signing and every other admendment since the official recognition.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

In the U.S., you have three general categories of firearms: rifles (which shoot various kinds of bullets,) pistols (which also shoot bullets) and shotguns (which generally shoot pellets and slugs.)

No one really argues with the value of shotguns. They fit certain qualities that people need for different purposes: loudness, power and less of a worry about accuracy. They also don't hold much ammunition, they're not very effective over long distances, and it has to hold its general shape in order to maintain its effectiveness (i.e., you can't saw off the barrel and the stock for a hideable weapon because the increased recoil will tear your hands apart. I can't explain the science behind it, but it is on the net.) From self-defense to hunting to target practice, shotguns are effective tools for getting a job that requires a firearm... done.

Rifles and pistols are where the U.S. start to get a bad image in terms of crime, media coverage and the worldview. Unlike a shotgun shell, a bullet is a dense metal object tightly packed with gunpowder designed to penetrate through, tear large holes in or damage the internal system of a target. (Again, I don't really know the science, sorry.) Unlike a shotgun shell, bullets can travel over long distances. Unlike a shotgun, you can pack many bullets into a single magazine of a rifle or a handgun. Rifles themselves come in a variety of shapes that can easily be hidden or disguised, and pistols are expressely designed to be hidden.

Because of the designs and effectiveness of certain rifles and pistols, you can easily kill a human being with one of those certain models. There's no question about that. But everyone in America has a different opinion over what type of rifle and pistol is considered unallowable in society, where they should be allowed in society, and under what circumstances.

The trouble is, what causes firearm-related fatalities and crime in America isn't only stemming from the fact that the gun exists. There's a million different variables as to why a crime occured in the first place.

...and I'm sorry, I've been sitting here for half an hour trying to write up a well-reasoned argument for individual responsibility that Americans are proud to have in themselves, and why guns are seen as part of that responsibility.

Maybe that ties in with regional pride too. Maybe that ties in with the whole thread.

America is different from other developed countries in that more pride is given and taken in the individual's responsibility to creating a better life for themselves in which other people may benefit, rather than helping to create a community for all.

I dunno. You can argue with what I've posted so far. ^_^


For some reason, I feel that French people are the closer to Americans among all Europeans.

That seems true enough. Two countries unafraid to tell each other to go to hell. ^_^
 
the reason for the "right to bear arms" stems from the fact that when america was founded it was a largely isolated place with not many people nor a standing army. the pros of having a gun at the time far outweighed whatever cons could be presented.

probably the most important reason, since every household would have a gun, anyone could then fight the british when they came to take back their colony, e.g. the entire population would become the army so to speak.
also the fact that they needed them to hunt, for food not sport. and probably some more reasons that im too tired to think of now.

either way these same reasons dont hold water today, but the law is still the same.

18+ to buy/posess rifles or shotguns
21+ to buy/posess handguns

xkavar, the point of a sawed off shotgun is that the pellets scatter more than they would in a longer barrel. damn bloody damage at close range, with really no aiming, and more conceilable.
 
jeisan said:
we are for the most part required to pledge alliegence to our flag every morning in public school, from K-12, in high school you can get out of saying it but are still required to stand.
dont know if this is similar to other countries or not but if not then it could be added to the brainwashing bit, so as to make us "good little patriots"

also think we should be more worldy instead of US centered in terms of everything. european kids know alot more about the US than the other way around.

Yeah I stopped standing in the middle of my junior year having matured and realized the hurrendous treatment of my Native American ancestary by the US government and also the "war" in Iraq. I recieved no opposition because my teacher was cool though. But some teachers try to force kids to stand, its ******* rediculous rubbish.

mdchachi said:
Where did you go to school, jeisan? I don't recall pledging the allegiance any time after grade school.

Maciamo, how is the "brainwashing" different than that found in the media and schools of any other country? Have you even lived in America? It sounds like you are being brainwashed by your media which is telling you that Americans are being brainwashed by theirs. ;)

As for drinking -- Americans have collectively decided to restrict that freedom in order to keep so many people from dying on our roads. It has generally worked (though I would be in favor of restoring the freedom while increasing enforcement of the drinking laws).

As for proving that the freedom of America is an "obvious lie" you're going to have to enumerate all freedoms and all countries and show us which countries have more.

Let's see... what would I rather have. The freedom to go to Cuba or the right of own weapons to protect myself and my family. Hmmm tough choice.

:p


Typical American ignorance. We don't need the right to bear arms, that right was established during the revolutionary war when it was necessary. Now we have the highest ammount of gun deaths of any country in the world due to this "freedom" whlie gun toting idiot Americans like you feel it is necessary to "protect" yourself while the crime level decreases but your fears remain, fueled by the media and "COPS"

kirei_na_me said:
I kind of feel more from my state than the from the USA. I agree with CC1. I'd say that 'state pride' is more prevalant in the southern states.

I agree, I am from Alaska, am an Alaskan Native (Inupiaq), a people that have been here for nearly 15,000 years. I could give a shit about patriotism or America for we were bought like ******* cattle for $7.2 million in 1863 from Russia without the consent of the indiginous people that have lived here for time immemorial.
 
Golgo_13 said:
I name my son after any damn person I choose.

Man, I have to deal with Japan bashing AND America bashing.

BTW, those Germans spat on Lance Armstrong instead of respecting him for overcoming cancer and winning his 6th Tour de France.



But nothing hurts like the truth, as the saying goes.

What truth is that ?
 
Duo said:
What truth is that ?

@Duo & Golgo 13...I think you are both right in your assertions.


@All.. Be nice :blush: , I am enjoying this thread.
 
chiquiliquis said:
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you saying that reckless gun owners have not intruded on the rights to life liberty and the persuit of happiness in the same way reckless drinkers have?

Basically, yes, it's not the same. I don't know what your CDC number includes but the number of deaths due to legally-owned firearms are a very small part of that number.

Of course a few reckless gun owners have intruded on the rights of others, but not enough to warrant revoking that right from everybody. Criminal use of guns is, of course, a very real and serious problem and accounts for the bulk of that number.

By the way, I don't agree with revoking the drinking right of 18-21 year-old even though I can understand why it was done. Better law enforcement is a better solution in my opinion.

> Rights and liberies only exists as long as they do not infringe on other people's. This is one of the most basic logic we are taught in Europe and that seem to be missing in American minds.

And I said exactly that. You just neglected to quote that part of my response.

Brooker, nice list. Though I'm not sure about the second one. How about:
fat middle aged people--------------fat people of all ages, lots of 'em

> either way these same reasons dont hold water today, but the law is still the same.

We may not need to fight the British any more but I think it's foolish to believe that we are safe from tyranny in America. (Those of you who believe the Bush presidency and the Patriot Act are likely to lead to loss of freedom should, after all, be stockpiling guns right now.) More importantly, though, the right of self-defense is a fundamental right (or it should be).

Typical American ignorance. We don't need the right to bear arms, that right was established during the revolutionary war when it was necessary. Now we have the highest ammount of gun deaths of any country in the world due to this "freedom" whlie gun toting idiot Americans like you feel it is necessary to "protect" yourself while the crime level decreases but your fears remain, fueled by the media and "COPS"

It's tempting not to even attempt to discuss anything with somebody who can't be civil but I will try. First point: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Second point: What do you think removing legal weapons ownership will do? Yes, that's right, guns will only remain in the hands of criminals. And then what will you see? Well we already know. Crime rates have been going up in Austrlia and England where they have done just that. And yet crime rates have been going down in the U.S. So if you want to ban guns at least try to use your brain and come up with some reasons besides "a lot of people die from gun wounds." A lot of people drown but should we ban swimming?

If you're an Alaskan native, I'm surprised you have this attitude. Sounds like you've been brainwashed yourself. I bet Alaskans own more guns per capita than many other states. How many of your gun-owning neighbors have been causing you trouble?

I believe we can learn from the drinking and driving example. We have learned that strict enforcement of drunk driving laws (along with the change in social mores) has made a huge difference. We haven't had the need to ban alcohol. Yet, gun laws are not very well enforced at all. Strict enforcement of currently existing gun regulations would make a huge difference. Stupid measures like "assault weapons bans" which simply ban guns based on cosmetic characteristics are just plain ignorant and solve nothing.
 
mdchachi said:
Basically, yes, it's not the same. I don't know what your CDC number includes but the number of deaths due to legally-owned firearms are a very small part of that number.
Yeah, the CDC number is for all deaths related to firearms, legal or otherwise.

mdchachi said:
Of course a few reckless gun owners have intruded on the rights of others, but not enough to warrant revoking that right from everybody. Criminal use of guns is, of course, a very real and serious problem and accounts for the bulk of that number.
Ok ok... I think I follow you here: it is illegal use of guns that accounts for most deaths. Legal owners are not the trouble-makers (for the most part).

Wouldn't it go the same for alcohol: Alcohol doesn't kill people, people kill people. There are many people who are more than capable of drinking responsibly. The law states they have to be 21, and their blood/alc. needs to be at a certain % to be driving. Rather than banning alcohol, we tighten the laws, and up education. Just as, rather than banning guns, we tighten the laws, and up education.

But, when young people started intruding on the rights of others, the result was a de facto attempt to take the bottle out of their hands: "you don't get to touch alcohol until you are 21". But alcohol doesn't kill people, right? Rather than addressing the issue of poor education and loose laws, the legal system has set it's sights on alcohol, rather than drinkers (people).

There would have been no need to take the bottle out of their hands, had the legal system/governments (local or otherwise) instituted much better alcohol education programs. What do you think of this idea, then: first drinking and driving offense results in a minimum 5,000 $ fine. Second results in suspension of liscence. For everyone else in society who is a responsible (legal) drinker, this would not be a restriction--they're not the ones causing trouble. A seventeen year old could sit down on a hot day with his old man (or woman, as the case may be), and have a cool one--and no one need feel guilty... except for Glenn, who would be worried about dehydration.

If I'm reading you correctly, you would be in favor of this kind of arrangement. Likewise for guns. We need not ban them, but need much better education and need laws that treat the offenders and not the guns themselves (?).

So, I'll see if I can bring it back to the original theme. I have it on very good authority, that where I live in Japan, there is zero tolerance for drunk driving. The legal limit is 0%. The minimum fine for drunk driving is 100,000? (about, 1k US$). That doesn' mean that people don't go out and have a really good time getting socially lubricated with their work-mates (or whoever), for whatever reason. Kids drink here. The legal age is 20, but that wouldn't stop a kid from buying a beer out of a vending machine, or goiing out for a "nomikai" with the superiors at his "arubaito".

Yeah... Maciamo is right, this wouldn't happen in America--kids don't drink in establishments. Why is it important to bring it up?... well, it at least got us all thinking, didn't it?
 
What do you think of this idea, then: first drinking and driving offense results in a minimum 5,000 $ fine. Second results in suspension of liscence.

Uh, I would think that the second time is already too late! If they got off with a $5,000 fine the first time, and the second time they have an accident resulting in someone's death...not their own, how do you explain to the other family why that person was still driving if they had screwed up once already?? :?
 

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