Thoughts from Klyosov R1b data and the IE problem

[kosmonomad]

Just M269 or pos. downstream clades not further tested yet? i.e. a possibility for it to be further downstream clades from M269;

I remember seeing an initiative to test ancient R1b samples. This should be a perfect opportunity. Academic research may still be lagging behind.

 

[Nobody1]

I remember seeing an initiative to test ancient R1b samples. This should be a perfect opportunity. Academic research may still be lagging behind.

Than lets hope it catches up fast; for if there really is R1b-M269 in Afanasevo than it would be a shame to waste it by no proper research at all;

 

[Aberdeen]

Than lets hope it catches up fast; for if there really is R1b-M269 in Afanasevo than it would be a shame to waste it by no proper research at all;

I agree. I'll remain dubious about the idea of ancient R1b in any quantity in that part of the world until that's proven, but if it's true, it's very significant.

 

[Sile]

http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/new-archaic-y-dna-r1b-in-southern.html

 

[Vedun]

I've read somewhere that old Slavic kon was kobn, the horse female is kobyla in polish. Now we are closer to Italian caballo. Also horse run called trot is called kłus (eng phonetic: kwus, qwus) in polish, now we are close to IE eq'wos.

The root is "KN" (Kon), which also meant "a law" (zakon; za-Kon) or better said "cycle" (КОН); "time keeper" (an emperor, a dynasty) in old Slavic. Gon is an "instinct" (nagon; Na-Gon; "on running(instinct"). From Kon came Kan or Konyaz or Kniaz or Knez (prince); "Koningaz" in later Gothic or "konig, könig, knight, k(o)nigt" . Or something which is "fast & young". Kneht, Kunec (rabbit), Kon(j)...The Turkish adaptation was "Khan" and in Saxonic sounded as "K(o)night" (Knight), because he was part of the ancient Law (justice and loyalty), and a Horse rider. (kłus or kljuse, kluse meant/means a "young horse" "baby horse", generally stands in the "neuter (neutrum) sex form". It means "k(o)luse" (kolose); "cycle", because it was born not long ago and because it "rolls", like Cats (Kot) and runs around...
"Klyosov" surname derives from the "Kolesov", because he knows the "cycles" (history) -Kon of our people...

The Slavic term for k(o)night (konyaz) was however Vitez or Vityaz, because of his abilities; to "see" (Video, Veda) an enemy and the danger and predict his moves... Princes were knights, only few of them were natural leaders, that's why they were also "holy knights" or kings. The old name for a king in Slavic territories was Volhv or Volkhv, this is also the name for a highest rank of pre-christian priests. The writers of Ukrainian and Russian Bible however thought to "keep" the original form for "3 wise men" (3 kings; Volhvs; Mages) who visited baby Jesus...

 

[MOESAN]

The root is "KN" (Kon), which also meant "a law" in old Slavic. Gon is an "instinct" (nagon; Na-Gon; "on running(instinct"). From Kon came Kan or Konyaz or Kniaz or Knez (prince); "Koningaz" in later Gothic or "konig, könig, knight, k(o)nigt" . Or something which is "fast & young". Kneht, Kunec (rabbit), Kon(j)...The Turkish adaptation was "Khan" and in Saxonic sounded as "K(o)night" (Knight), because he was part of the ancient Law (justice and loyalty), and a Horse rider. (kłus or kljuse, kluse meant/means a "young horse" "baby horse", generally stands in the "neuter (neutrum) sex form". It means "k(o)luse" (kolose); "cycle", because it was born not long ago and because it "rolls", like Cats (Kot) and runs around...
"Klyosov" surname derives from the "Kolesov", because he knows the "cycles" (history) of our people...

The Slavic term for k(o)night (konyaz) was however Vitez or Vityaz, because of his abilities; to "see" (Video, Veda) an enemy and the danger and predict his moves... Princes were knights, only few of them were natural leaders, that's why they were also "holy knights" or kings. The old name for a king in Slavic territories was Volhv or Volkhv, this is also the name for a highest rank of pre-christian priests. The writers of Ukrainian and Russian Bible however thought to "keep" the original form for "3 wise one" (3 kings; Volhvs) who visited baby Jesus...

wow!!!I discover here the new linguistic - I'll do marvellous dreams tonight where the unique root of all the words of all the languages will be revealed to me!

 

[LeBrok]

wow!!!I discover here the new linguistic - I'll do marvellous dreams tonight where the unique root of all the words of all the languages will be revealed to me!

lol, I have to say Vedun is extremely creative guy. I'm sure if he continued we could see that everything started from one proto word.

 

[LeBrok]

The root is "KN" (Kon), which also meant "a law" (zakon; za-Kon) or better said "cycle" (КОН); "time keeper" (an emperor, a dynasty) in old Slavic. Gon is an "instinct" (nagon; Na-Gon; "on running(instinct"). From Kon came Kan or Konyaz or Kniaz or Knez (prince); "Koningaz" in later Gothic or "konig, könig, knight, k(o)nigt" . Or something which is "fast & young". Kneht, Kunec (rabbit), Kon(j)...The Turkish adaptation was "Khan" and in Saxonic sounded as "K(o)night" (Knight), because he was part of the ancient Law (justice and loyalty), and a Horse rider. (kłus or kljuse, kluse meant/means a "young horse" "baby horse", generally stands in the "neuter (neutrum) sex form". It means "k(o)luse" (kolose); "cycle", because it was born not long ago and because it "rolls", like Cats (Kot) and runs around...
"Klyosov" surname derives from the "Kolesov", because he knows the "cycles" (history) -Kon of our people...

The Slavic term for k(o)night (konyaz) was however Vitez or Vityaz, because of his abilities; to "see" (Video, Veda) an enemy and the danger and predict his moves... Princes were knights, only few of them were natural leaders, that's why they were also "holy knights" or kings. The old name for a king in Slavic territories was Volhv or Volkhv, this is also the name for a highest rank of pre-christian priests. The writers of Ukrainian and Russian Bible however thought to "keep" the original form for "3 wise men" (3 kings; Volhvs; Mages) who visited baby Jesus...

Are these your linguistic deductions and synthesis or you can reffer us to the book you read?

 

[Vedun]

If people find answers (understand them through their own words(mind), then I find it enough "deductive", yes. And there is no individual book to check all the information i gave above... It comes from the observation and from reading of different books; one of them is the Bible (yes, I am seeking many information there, to "unlock" the hidden (inverted, stolen...) 'mysteries' from the past; one of them is the fact that old Slavs called "kings" as Volhvs (Mages; "great ones"). In matter of fact, one of Karantanian princes was called "Valuk"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuk_(duke) (modern interpretation of latin transmutation, transliteration of "Wallucus dux". His real name was Volkh or Volhv, which means "Druid" (Mage) and a "king"... Every king has 'saw and could predict the future, danger, describe the enemy from the distance (even if he did not see him directly with his physical eyes)... That's how the real King became to be the leader of a nation. That's why was Christianity so distant and foreign among these people. In fact was Christianity more deadly than any Gengis Khan (Kniaz) who came to save Russians (for example) from this new deadly cult which was arriving from Byzantium and Rome (that's why were also 'mongols' (the real name was Moguls (which means 'great ones' in old Greek - the word itself has no meaning in Chinese (current Mongol) languages) well accepted among Russian aristocracy...

a little thought about the 'mythology'...
One of many Slavic surnames was also famous "Vuk" or Volk or "wolf". It was a patrimonial name of every Volhv who achieved the status as a "protector of a village"; a Werewolf. To become a Werewolf was required a special, sacred ritual, which has roots in Shamanism...
(perhaps you've heard or read about the story when the Witch(Viech; Vešča; Volhva, Veda Vedun; "the one who knows(sees things as a Moth (also check the Lord of the Rings story about Gandalf's transformation into a Moth (Vešča; "witch; Witcher)" or a thing called "Mothman" (Vešč; (dark) Witcher (moth - Seer) http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/bd51283fa0.jpg ) as are stories which are still part of modern western World... ) turned the prince into a frog? Actually was the story written by Grimm brothers when they were collecting tales with their trip through ex Karantanian (then already Austrian) territories... The ability of these Mages (and knights) was a special state of mind, where their body called Nav left their material body in Jav... This process can be also described as several "Astral" projections... But there were differences between them (the best description about this process is described in the Tibetan Book of the dead; as part of ancient Vedic (Shamanic) - Asian teachings...which were carried into the Egyptian "Book of the Dead" of Osiris (=Vedic Asura)...

Current Chinese "secret service", as well as several CIA members are (still) extremelly interested into this subject... part of this teaching is also called "Remote viewing", which was generally established by Ingo Swann...
Back to the "werewolves". So, every Volhv have had an ability to "join" (merge) his Information ("body") or Mind (Um) with the body of an animal... generally to become part of the "wolves". When he returned back he carried part of this animal "information" in a spiritual way... That's why were his Volkv descendants also called Volk or Vuk.
(if the priest joined, combined his soul with a dying or a person who was in status of "passing away" (instead he was already physically dead, 3 - 40 days...) he become known as a "Vampir"...He came from the realm of Navi (also the name of a cemetery, the place of the souls which are still "waiting" (or do not want to re-incarnate)...

This is also the way how I "see" the history(time), not only through written (official) messages in Books, but to observe them between the lines...

 

[Alpakut]

Anatole Klyosov thinks that R1a spoke proto IE language and R1b spoke proto turkic language. He doesn't agree with Kurgan hypothesis. He sees that R1b migrated from east to west and that R1a migrated from west to east.

I think that Klyosov data and chronology can be understood under the Kurgan hypothesis.

M. Gimbutas artfully reconstructed the IE mythology, religion, and gender relations in the context of the IE's westward kurgan migrations, riding the “Lord of the gaps” to construct the most popular IE creationist story, the so called “mainstream consensus”. While whole schools of archeology discounted radiocarbon dating as too imprecise and unreliable, the new tool allowed M.Gimbutas to leapfrog into the 20th c. Only with the 21st c. technology of haplotype allele dating it became clear that archeologists confused two separate developments, a later west-to-east movement of non-Kurgan people with the earlier east-to west movement of the Kurgan people. The history of these movements, separated in time by a millennia, is yet unwritten, but it is already clear that much of M.Gimbutas interpretations will have to be disbanded, while the facts on the ground will remain solidly intact.

 

[Semitic Duwa]

M. Gimbutas artfully reconstructed the IE mythology, religion, and gender relations in the context of the IE's westward kurgan migrations, riding the “Lord of the gaps” to construct the most popular IE creationist story, the so called “mainstream consensus”. While whole schools of archeology discounted radiocarbon dating as too imprecise and unreliable, the new tool allowed M.Gimbutas to leapfrog into the 20th c. Only with the 21st c. technology of haplotype allele dating it became clear that archeologists confused two separate developments, a later west-to-east movement of non-Kurgan people with the earlier east-to west movement of the Kurgan people. The history of these movements, separated in time by a millennia, is yet unwritten, but it is already clear that much of M.Gimbutas interpretations will have to be disbanded, while the facts on the ground will remain solidly intact.

Looks like you've been living in a cave these last 15 years. While some of what Gimbutas said about the nature of "Old [Neolithic] Europe" was romantic nonsense, her model still happens to be quite relevant nowadays (save some details, such as the Baden culture being IE for instance). There's no way around this, really.

 

[Alpakut]

Looks like you've been living in a cave these last 15 years. While some of what Gimbutas said about the nature of "Old [Neolithic] Europe" was romantic nonsense, her model still happens to be quite relevant nowadays (save some details, such as the Baden culture being IE for instance). There's no way around this, really.

Except for the fact that she misinterpreted R1a migrations with R1b migrations. Have a nice cave.