What do you think of America?

[mdchachi]

america has way too many ignorant people in it for the masses to be makeing desicions that effect the world.

It's a good thing you feel this way because the masses aren't making the decisions. Most of the masses don't vote. Even if they did -- it wouldn't really affect the fact that most of the elected representatives are representing various special interests as opposed to trying to do what they think is right.

 

[jeisan]

It's a good thing you feel this way because the masses aren't making the decisions. Most of the masses don't vote. Even if they did -- it wouldn't really affect the fact that most of the elected representatives are representing various special interests as opposed to trying to do what they think is right.

they make the desicion not to vote because they are ignorant of the power that they have. instead they prefer to sit on their asses election day rather than take 30 minutes out of their self centered lives to go punch some holes in a piece of paper. yeah many elected officials are more worried about whos putting money in their campaign fund than doing whats right. but alas who put that person where they are in the 1st place? a good percentage of those who manage to make it to the voting booth have no real idea who they are voting for. "well hes a (insert political party here) so i pick him." or " i like this guys name." what a sad state of affairs it is when people are too lazy to learn something about the people they elect to run their country.

 

[noyhauser]

After reading the debate going on, I wanted to point out some things that a lot of people don?t realize or the discussion hasn?t touched upon. Its not surprising that the conversation has been completely one sided up to this point. Given that most of the world is against the US, and nobody likes a arrogant leader. To start off I think that most people don?t have a real understanding of how critical the United States is to the international system. On its most basic level, the United States is the underwriter of world?s security architecture. The US acts in the world to preserve peace around the world. Now people may argue that the war actually may have been in a detriment to that order, but overall, the US has overwhelmingly acted to the benefit of it. Kosovo Bosina and Afghanistan are the larger examples, but in the South Pacific and Indian Ocean the 6th and 7th fleets patrol protecting shipping from pirates. The commerce that is carried aboard these vessels is vital for the ASEAN and Japanese economies. If we go back and look at Afghanistan, Nations to the north of Afghanistan, (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan) were desperately fighting against Muslim Insurgency that was emanating from the Afghanistan before Sept. 11th. These radicals were attempting to export the wahhabi style Islam to these nations. The war in Afghanistan irradiated these groups and helped stabilize the region. Just this week the US confirmed that it was going into Liberia to supervise the peace accords within that nation. The United States? main aim in the world is to ensure the stability of the world?s markets, not only for itself but also for its other allied nations. On a macro level, the United States is a main guarantor of multilateral initiatives. Without the US, the UN would be bankrupt, since the US pays nearly 50% of the UN?s budget. The US also is a major force behind the Bretton Woods organizations, such as the IMF, which is vital for preventing waylaid nations from reaching true economic catastrophe, (we have not seen a economic depression like the ones since the 1930s since then). Without the United States support, international organizations would for the most part be non-existent and the world would be anarchic at best. As my American Foreign Policy teacher once asked us? would you like a world with America, or without?? ask yourselves that question, and the answer is pretty obvious.

I would agree though that the American System has problems, but even with those problems most people in the US believe they live in the best nation in the world. Many people live by the belief that they too may strike it rich one day and live the American dream if they keep working at it, and resist any changes that would impede that dream. They are willing to live in relative poverty to ensure that they have crack at making it big. I have problems with the US Bicameral system, because of its ease of abuse but I?ll save that for later, if anybody likes to discuss it.

Im not a big fan of Noam Chompsky, or many left wing authors (as I am not a fan of any very right wing authors). I guess at the level I have achieved, you get pretty moderate in your views. Furthermore most of what I have read is academic in nature and many attempt to be as value neutral as possible. My main beef with Chompsky is that he shows all that is wrong with the world and in my mind offers no prescriptive solutions (from the works I have read) Its easy to trash American Policy but can people really come up with a better solution?

Well I hope I stirred the pot a bit, and look forward to continuing this discussion.

 

[Maciamo]

but in the South Pacific and Indian Ocean the 6th and 7th fleets patrol protecting shipping from pirates

That reminds me of the (English) East India Company that was asked to transports merchandises because its ships had better defences against pirates in the Indian Ocean. That was also one the the fundaments of the British Empire. Is America's military potecting its trade as well ?

but even with those problems most people in the US believe they live in the best nation in the world.

That's because they've never lived anywhere else. Ask Swiss, Luxembourgers, Scandinavians, Brits, French or Japanese if they don't live the the best nation in the world for some reason or other.

The 3 first have higher level standard, higher democracy and live in a safer and much more egalitarian state than the US. What do you want more to be happy ? Dominate the world ?
The other 3 have very high self-esteem, a long history and high level of culture, development and power comapred to their relatively small size compared to the US.

Its easy to trash American Policy but can people really come up with a better solution?

Well, look outside, travel, think, compare, adjust, try and improve. Japanese are very good at importing ideas and concpets and adapting them to their own needs (look at the Meiji restoration).

 

[Haivart]

You hit the nail on the head, Maciamo. Predominence is cyclical. First one country is dominant, then a century or 2 later, another one is, and so on. I don't know who's time is next, but I see the signs that the U.S.'s time is about over. What we need to do is exactly what you suggest in your last paragraph: we need to look outward instead of inward.

 

[Elizabeth]

You hit the nail on the head, Maciamo. Predominence is cyclical. First one country is dominant, then a century or 2 later, another one is, and so on. I don't know who's time is next, but I see the signs that the U.S.'s time is about over.

Although I think it is a pretty safe assumption not to be the Swiss, Luxembourgers, Scandinavians, Brits, French, Japanese et al. But whoever eventually inherits the mantle of power from the US will have EXACTLY the same age-old dilemmas of trying to strike a balance between individual freedom and communal responsibility, economic growth and social justice, military intervention vs. diplomacy, etc while maintaining a reasonable balance of power and semblance of stability in the world. It just seems like things are more chaotic now or the country is falling apart because of the speed information travels and the media hype always there to surround it all.

 

[Maciamo]

I don't think American dominance will cease any time soon. They are too advanced militarily. However, the world is certainly going towards the creation of new superpowers, like the EU, then later China, then India and who knows a South East Asian superstate based on the ASEAN or even an Arabic league. If all these countries could be either united or reach an equivalent economic power of the USA, the world would not bipolar, but multipolar and therefore more stable. We wouldn't hear Bush saying "You are either with us or against us", which has upset the world.

 

[noyhauser]

A few points. The United States use of the 7th fleet in the Pacific and Indian ocean is fundamentally different from the Imperial example that you assert. Firstly, Most of the Trade that this fleet protects is not destined to America or even from the US itself, it protects third party to third party trade as part of the international Trading system. The same can be said about oil, since the United States protects middle eastern oil that most of which does not go to the United States but to Europe and Japan. The US defines its interests as protection of the stability of the world and to protect it from falling to the situation of the past. I can?t even believe the comments earlier by someone calling for a world back to bipolarity as experienced in the Cold War. Having family members who lived in Czechoslovakia during that period, and seeing the horrors that the Communist system perpetuated on people, I would fight tooth and nail against a return to it. That doesn?t make me an ultra conservative, but returning to that sort of period would be unimaginable. I?m not here to completely defend the United States for all it has done, as I know plenty of examples where the US utterly failed. But What I am trying to do is to return to some sort of balance. In the world outside of the US today, it is intellectually neuveau to attack the United States and its actions. Its so easy to fall into that trap, reading the likes of Chompsky or Klein; as it is easy to become a triumphalist and support the US for all it does. I would encourage people to read the works of John J Mearshimer, Kenneth Waltz, to see another perspective why the US should act as it does now.

As for your second point Maciamo, I think you mistook my point; I took the United States citizens belief of their nations superiority as a measure of support for its own system, not to compare to any other nation. If a nation really was so utterly riddled with problems like many commentators would say it is, why are Americans so happy with the system they have? I don?t take Chompky?s manufacturing consent argument very well for this because it would make it seem that the Television is some sort of brain sucking beast that could make you think your life is better when it really is $@#!. If Americans were really impoverished and had no prospects for the future, they would very quickly think that their nation is a poor place to live, but they don?t. Since the system offers the opportunity for people to become rich and affluent, people support it. Americans value their freedom, and the opportunity to do what you wish, and that is why they love their system.

Also the Argument over bipolarity and multipolarity as a sign of stability is completely off the mark, especially when examined by historical precedents. Look through the cold war, the number of wars may of decreased, but the casualties wrought by them were far more intense. Although today the number of wars has increased, many of them are at a far lower intensity than the conflicts of the previous era. Look at the number of destructive conflicts that occurred during the 18th Century between Britain and France, especially in North America. These are almost mirror images of Korea and Vietnam. The Skirmishes in New France, the Seven Years War, the American Revolution are three of many. Instead of fighting between themselves, they move their battlegrounds elsewhere to prevent large-scale conflict (often called brushfire conflicts). And Multipolarity can also increase the likelihood of a BIG confrontation ala WW1 and 2, or the Napoleonic wars. The only change from that model is the Cold War, which may run against Konrad Lorenz?s thesis that humans don?t understand the implications of the weapons that they may use in conflict. The creation of Nuclear Weapons and the sobering calculations of Mutually Assured Destruction between them may of prevented their use because of the relatively simple dynamic that was involved between two nations. Would you like to test that sort of restraint in a world that has 4 or 5 superpowers all with those sorts of capabilities? Look to India and Pakistan, where the use of Nuclear weapons has been threatened nearly once a year, for the last six years. The creation of nuclear weapons has made the dynamic of the world security architecture far too dangerous. Any nation can develop a bomb, and then threaten its use on its neighbours. Do you think that some leader, under pressure by another superpower might not resort to the use of a nuclear weapon to achieve what he believes is a limited aim, not understanding its costs, only to see both of them annihilate themselves? That is a risk that is too dangerous to take.

 

[Satori]

Bush and his administration are a disgrace to the American people. Unfortunately, more than 50% of those people have voted for him and some support him fervently.

Great discussion, Maciamo! I agree with you, except that I think it should be pointed out that Bush wasn't really "elected," but was placed in office through a political coup. Also, there is a big difference between the American people and the American government, as I think Thomas pointed out. By the way, I love Chomsky, and I am very thankful for the internet these days, as the propaganda Americans are being fed these days through television and mainstream newspapers is ridiculous! There's hardly any serious, critical thinking being expressed via mainstream news. And I agree with Kirei_na_me when she says, " To me, it's usually pointless arguing with mainstream Americans because you will never get through to them. Usually, they are brought up knowing but one, narrow way of thinking and that, you cannot change."I would just add that it is even worse these days due to the fluff and propaganda Americans are being force-fed on a daily basis, not to mention the push for patriotism. It's also scary that we are losing so many of our freedoms and that there is now a new McCarthyism that has been going on since 9/11. That's why it's so nice to be able to communicate with Europeans who generally think along the same lines as American intellectuals. It's embarrassing how we are viewed by other countries, though, especially with the witch-hunt nonsense of the Clinton era. But now that we have a puppet in office with the old Reagan-Bush team running things again, it's very scary. They are declaring war on anyone who doesn't agree with them, and have entered America into an unending war. It's so sad to see what they are doing to this country and its reputation. It's bad enough that we have always been known as the "ugly American," but now this! It just gets worse ... I believe it's a great country, but I am very dismayed and embarrassed by our government. That pretty much sums it up for me!! :happy:

Satori

 

[DeadorAlive]

I barely read the conversation but I have a feeling that people are ignorant to Americans in general. If you look at the world as it is no country is good. Regardless of what you believe the United States gets much press because it is powerfull but if any country were in American's shoes they will be doing the same thing or even worse. The human race in general is born to conquer... A nature is that. People are just have so many morals and so many disagreements they forget that humanity is conquering species. But anyway America in its past was actually a wonderfull country when it came to helping in wars. We would not have the United Nations without Wilson's 14 point speach. Even though the Allie powers decided not to listen to Wilson and decided to make it almost a communist agenda taking land from Germany and leaving out Russia. The United States refused the idea of what they were doing so left the United Nations in the hands of the Allies (but not all the allies were invited). A lot of things however happened because of power. Bush is not a good present. I most admit he bascly destoried this country with his views on many levels. Not all Americans not even half are arogant. Majority of this country is immigrants who come from all over the world. We have more culture then one may actually see. I think the problem is people hate one aspect of the United States and assume that everyone is like that when in reality they are not. I always seen the United States as any other country... Trying to stand tall in a harsh world of warlords and enemies who want to destory.


(I haven't read many post but I figured I show you were I stand)

 

[Djzleite]

what i think of America

Can?t stand em right now, i think their fashist, racist, xenofobist, arrogant, ignorant, haters, etc, etc, arrr, let me stop right here before it goes to 5 or 6 pages.
America is our curse, hope they don?t use the damn bomb again.
Sorry my American brothas, nothing against civilians, but the mercenaries and those rullin em stink.
God bless you and your families, you deserve more than beeing cheated all the time by those corrupted minds in power.

 

[Djzleite]

Mota Funk Robot

Was so damn pissed with Bush and his bloody war that made this one:

Here?s the track but also the amazing lyrics 8)

Mota Funk Robot mp3 3.99MB

;D :

Hello everybody i am Djzleite, came from Porto Portugal, bought space shuttle and moving Mars soon, Bush is destroying humans, terror & hate spreading fast, the winds of evil are colonising earth, destroying humanoids, obey Bush command, be a blind robot, mota foka: Jack arse, Exzakt, TeeCee, T-Pap, Nastelectro, Audiobot, Mr Drex, foka motas, and so on.
Big up?s to Gab Gato, Dj Bad, Laite, Selekta Starjna, Ib, Medooza, Juska, Mellymel, Kim, Sukeban, Rascal Electro Empire, Electrofunk30, Russ2000. (0:50)
(0:54)
Bboys Bgirls breakdance in the dance floor, feel tha beat, bust a move, electric boogie, Djzleite and his laptop, producing the breakers perfect beats, about Dj?s Z tha best, forget the rest.
Portugal breakdance, Florida breakdance, Belgium breakdance, Uk and so on.
Bush is bustin tha mad cow, Sadam hiden in space shuttle, in the surgery automated machines, 2003 the end, no job, no food, polution, war, terror and hate, final count down, it is tha bomb, beware out there, they?r shaking tha snake, what tha hell, what tha ****, Bush is a damn gerk, killing inocent people around the globe, **** Bush, **** Blair, **** Saddam, and, **** You too, from me and the crew and so on, mota fokas.
Mess with the best, die like the rest, hack EA, save EE, Cee, USA start to pray, make love not war, mota ****** arrongant emperialists, you know it?s true so **** you mercenaries of hate, Israel, Palestine, USA, Iraq, Pakistan, N Korea, Afganistan, Soviet Union breakdance.
Aznar cabron acaba con la poluicion, te has vendido a los Americanos perro de mierda, Dur?o Barroso eres un merdoso, Galego amigo Portugal est? contigo.
No need to fear because the age of the atom now is here, jam on planet rock, renegades of funk, zulu nation, afrika islam, capoeira breakdance, CIA, FBI, KGB, can?t you see.
Open your mind feel the beat, on the dance floor Djzleite is the best, about mc?s forget the rest, dopest beats and robotic voices, beaming all breakers out there, beware brain wash, electro cosmic waves, space is the place for human race, because Bush is bombing our poluted earth, Bush is suckin Iraq oil, his ***** is suckin the camels, Saddam hiden in space station with Bin Laden, Kadafi hyjackin the space shuttle to join em.
Portuguese landing on Mars, to build the new electro empire, sattelite, internet, light speed, color tv, breakdance electro boogie, moonwalk, headspin, surgery bombing, freeze, mushroom, suicide, mad cow, MI5, nuclear age, drop the bomb over humanoids, Jackass mota fokas.
If electrocore is new skool bring me back the old skool, Exzakt is a crap.
Independent artists are the key, others should get a job and start working.
Poladroid is humanoid, Natan Vance geting his chance, J-Break is not fake, Teflon you are a cabron, Emil an imbecil, space invaders, starwars, ufo, aliens, black holes, meteorites, cosmic rain, solar wind, big bang, breakdance, 3 am time to sleep, God bless friends and enemies, Djzleite Porto Portugal representing, peace mota fokas !!! (4:54).

 

[Iron Chef]

"what i think of America

Can?t stand em right now, i think their fashist, racist, xenofobist, arrogant, ignorant, haters, etc, etc, arrr, let me stop right here before it goes to 5 or 6 pages."

Tell us how you really feel...

 

[Satori]

Iron Chef:

Djzleite: Yeah, don't hold back or sugar-coat it on our account!

 

[Djzleite]

it?s getin dark ...

hilarious isn?t it ? well, music is great to realise our anger
maybe i shouldn?t post my view, but i see things goin so dark now ...

 

[DeadorAlive]

I think the problem with America is that people don't vote therefore we get assholes like Bush running the country and putting a bad image on all Americans. But isn't every country like that though? Just so happens America has more power therefore they get bad press (and good at times). Anyway country with strong power will get the same disrespect as anyone else. They will use the same bombs and the same power as the United States does. History always repeats itself regardless of who is the strongest. I kinds of always think that is the way the world is... We can't change.. We always will be power hungry no matter what nation is in power.

 

[jeisan]

another thing to remember is that we didnt elect bush, gore won the popular vote. i think they whole elcectoral thing needs to go. america is in a downward spiral, i for one will be leaving soon.

 

[DeadorAlive]

Well America is not a bad place to leave nor is it on a downward spiral.... Any country is like that know or days we just hear to much of the United States then we do anyone else because of its power.

Thats true but not many people actually vote as well. The popular vote went to Gore because he is a democrate and people agree with them more.... If we all actually get up off are asses and actually start doing something maybe this country won't be so bad as everyone in the world sees it as. If you look at America itself and get away from the politics it is not so bad.

 

[nikki_the_insane]

It's only cause of a few people that this country was ruined! How would you feel if someone killed the people you love? Well, I for one would kick that b****** a***! True, it isn't only the democrats that have ruined our country it is also the republicans. The republicans have been very week these last ten fifteen years, until now they have finally stand up and are starting to change.

Also things were going bad before Bush ever got in. Did you know Clinton had the chance to put Laden's filthy a** in jail but he let him go. Clinton was lazy and was just president for the glam of it. I don't know why you hate Bush just because he happened to be the president when the attack on the world trade center happened doesn't mean he is a bad president. I for one think he is a decent president. One of the most decent we've had in a while!

 

[jeisan]

theres something wrong when a government thats for the people and by the people doesnt even listen to the people, not just in elections but other things as well. bushs approval rating is like what 42% so that means 58% disapprove of his actions yet he still goes on, giving the rest of the world the finger while hes at it. now the government wants to be digging into my personal life, screw that. to quote ben franklin, "a person willing to give up a little liberty for a little security will get neither."
another thing im tired of supporting fat, lazy ass people and their 15 kids, because we all know beer is a better investment for welfare money than rubbers. these people need to peel their slobbering selves up of the couch and get a damn job instead of watching jerry springer all day long.
yeah maybe if everyone got off their asses and started doing something, things would be different but i dont see that happening as the majority are too lazy to even vote, let alone do anything that might require more effort than puttin an X next to a name. america does have a lot of good points, but as i see it right now the bad outweighs that good.