What is the origin of haplogroup R-L2?

eindhein15 said:
in this article says https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b-L2 , is from ''R-L2 is thought to have originated around the Alps or southern Rhine'' , so that is it?
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Roughly speaking, that is the consensus.

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eindhein15 said:
last ancient samples found with R-L2 was found between alps , south germany and alsace france , but what i can't understand is oldest person with this subclade was found czechia
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Yes, the sample found in the Czech Republic belongs to the Bell Beaker culture and is very close to the TMRCA.
 
The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe

Bell Beaker pottery spread across western and central Europe beginning around 2750 BCE before disappearing between 2200–1800 BCE. The forces propelling its expansion are a matter of long-standing debate, with support for both cultural diffusion ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
L2 is a very big and widespread subclade in Europe. Based on current data, I think it arose somewhwere in Southern Germany. Much of it appears to have spread East at an early date via the Dabube river. Some of it must have spread northwards with the Rhine, and elsewhere, probably in multiple waves since sometime in the Bronze Age. It appears to have been a major component of Central European Bronze Age and Iron Age Cultures.
 
What about Z36? Was that from what is now South Germany or from Switzerland/Savoy?
 
Vallicanus said:
What about Z36? Was that from what is now South Germany or from Switzerland/Savoy?
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It seems that the consensus is that this haplogroup appears to have emerged in central Europe, from what I researched the only conclusion that can be reached is that the specific location of each haplogroup and its subclades is impossible to say
 
L2, Z36, Z56, and Z193 plus other immediate descendent branches of U152 split off fairly early, and so I think Southern Germany may roughly be where they all arose. Some of these people and/or branches remained close to the core area for some time and mixed/travelled with sister branches, while others may have travelled in large proportion alone.

Until we have more data on Bavarian people (an undertested region in Germany) I don't think we'll have a complete picture of its spread. I suspect some very interesting U152 subclade diversity in Bavaria.
 
Robotnick said:
L2, Z36, Z56, and Z193 plus other immediate descendent branches of U152 split off fairly early, and so I think Southern Germany may roughly be where they all arose. Some of these people and/or branches remained close to the core area for some time and mixed/travelled with sister branches, while others may have travelled in large proportion alone.

Until we have more data on Bavarian people (an undertested region in Germany) I don't think we'll have a complete picture of its spread. I suspect some very interesting U152 subclade diversity in Bavaria.
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but how can you say that if oldest R-L2 was found in czech?
 
eindhein15 said:
but how can you say that if oldest R-L2 was found in czech?
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That's a fair point. I'm far from certain. That L2 sample and roughly contemporaneous samples found in Czechia and Hungary could have been an arrival from the West via the eastward flow of the Danube.

That and the distribution of U152's parent ZZ11's distribution. DF27 shows a very Westward distribution since the Early Bronze Age, at least with current data. Though of course a LOT of movement can happen within some 150 years of separation, but nonetheless this causes me to favor a tentative central location for U152 and its immediate offspring. This guess seems as good as any but of course I may be wrong.

And also, I'm thinking a lot of P312 settled in Germany and much of it near the Rhine, given British Bell Beaker (L21) affinities with the Low Countries and the distribution of other P312 clades up and down the Rhine.
 
I'm R-L2 and my dad (who's R-L2 too - doesn't have to be that obvious in the time of 23andme surprises) comes from a long-lineage of highlanders in and around the village of Bochnia/Nowy Wisnicz which are essentially towns of Lesser Poland Province.
 
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