What would the American government do if..?

Mycernius

Mycernius

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I have recently read that if California was an independent country, it would be about the 4th richest in the world. What do you think George Bush would do if They, or any other State decided to leave the Union? Would he stick by his so called democratic ideals, or would he push the US into another civil war? I know there are people on Hawaii that see the US as an occupying force. Are they a minority or a bigger problem than the politicians let on?
Just a what if question :?
 
No Question !

Ol George would have his happy henchmen plant a few mini-nukes on the right fault lines and drop Arnold's great land into the sea. Anything above water after the horribly unfortunate "Mother Nature's Quake" would be claimed as part of Texas with oil drilling starting immediately after.

Frank

:p :cool: :eek:kashii: :blush:
 
Not My Fault !!

Mycernius said:
You have such a cynical view of your monkey in the whitehouse :D . Just give him a banana and he'll be happy
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Maine wanted the orangutan from New England to get in!

Frank

:blush:
 
They would mobilize the military to put down any pro-secession movement. My brain is faltering right now but we actually have a law that covers this.... let me hit the google-nator for a sec.

Ah yes, Ok its not a law but something that was added to the constitution via the 14th amendment after the Civil War. Basically it defines what constitutes national citizenship.

Why does this matter?

Here is the actual wording of the amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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From a constitutional law point, a state seceeding from the Union would abridge the federal rights of its citizens by forming a new state. So technically that would make the entire process of secession illegal. Hence Congress or the President being authorized to send troops to stop such an illegal act. :)

It's interesting to note that prior to the Civil War there was no definition of what constitutes American citizenship or nationality. It's pretty obvious why they added it, right?

One other thing I noticed while trying to find this information is that there are ALOT of sites on the web about fringe groups in southern states wanting to seceed from the Union. I sort of wish they would actually - all they do is soak up northern states tax dollars and pollute our nation with their 19th century ideas ><
 
Mal said:
One other thing I noticed while trying to find this information is that there are ALOT of sites on the web about fringe groups in southern states wanting to seceed from the Union. I sort of wish they would actually - all they do is soak up northern states tax dollars and pollute our nation with their 19th century ideas ><
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I hear about these people from time to time. I think they're crazy, and that they don't represent the general ideas of people in the south. As far as I know most people feel the same way as me. But maybe that's just the people I hang out with. Thanks for the vote of confidence, by the way.
 
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Mal said:
They would mobilize the military to put down any pro-secession movement. My brain is faltering right now but we actually have a law that covers this.... let me hit the google-nator for a sec.

Ah yes, Ok its not a law but something that was added to the constitution via the 14th amendment after the Civil War. Basically it defines what constitutes national citizenship.

Why does this matter?

Here is the actual wording of the amendment:



From a constitutional law point, a state seceeding from the Union would abridge the federal rights of its citizens by forming a new state. So technically that would make the entire process of secession illegal. Hence Congress or the President being authorized to send troops to stop such an illegal act. :)

It's interesting to note that prior to the Civil War there was no definition of what constitutes American citizenship or nationality. It's pretty obvious why they added it, right?

One other thing I noticed while trying to find this information is that there are ALOT of sites on the web about fringe groups in southern states wanting to seceed from the Union. I sort of wish they would actually - all they do is soak up northern states tax dollars and pollute our nation with their 19th century ideas ><
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like the damn mafia.. you can get in, but you're never leaving.
 
like the damn mafia.. you can get in, but you're never leaving.
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Pretty much yeah. It's not like any State really could leave anyway with the exception of possibly California. Even then they would have a hard time meeting their current energy demand without the provider contracts with other states.

From a purely economic standpoint however it would be feasible. Hell we even already have our own defense industry out here ><

Speaking of states.... The one thing that really bugs me is Puerto Rico. They have every advantage of American citizenship except for the right to vote in national elections and be represented in congress, yet they don't want to be a state. Well I should say, most people don't want to be a state, there is a significant percentage of the population that does. I personally feel that if they are going to reap the benifits of our government, then they ought to actually participate in that government. Seems like they are freeloading to me ><
 
There was a website called moveoncalifornia.org which has now been suspiciously shut down which was discussing California forming its own country. There was also talk about Washington State and Oregon joining as well. I doubt this would ever happen though. It would seriously be all out civil war. Do you really think G.W. would allow all the money generated by the West to fall out of his control?

I've also pondered whether or not such a secession would be a good thing. I was all for it after the last election, but if a large part of the liberal Americans were to split away, what you'd be left with was an America even more in control by the Conservatives. What I'm saying is, the two sides balance each other out a bit. If the Liberals weren't around, the Conservatives would probably be even more unbearable than they are now because they'd have free reign (and I guess you could argue that the opposite was true too).

United We Stand? Can't say it wouldn't be satisfying to tell all the red states to piss off though. One of the reasons America is so strong is because it is so united, but I feel it's more important to be responsible and cooperative with the rest of the world than it is to be strong. I say, "Why fight when you can get along?" But the thinking in America right now is, "Why bother trying to get along when you can kick everyone's @$$?" and I wish it weren't so. But as long as a Republican is in the White House, that's always how it's gonna be.
 
Brooker -

I hardly consider G.W.B. to be the paragon of Republican ideals. Infact, if anything the Republican party of today is so far away from what the party has historically stood for you can almost argue that it isn't even the Republican party anymore.

For instance, lets take Dwight D. Eisnhower (We like Ike, remember?). War Hero, Statesman and Republican. He was against the military-industrial complex, warned people against the power of special interests and believed that it was the nations duty as a civilized society to fight poverty, hunger and illiteracy.

Compare that to George W. Bush. Probably went AWOL from the guard. He's in bed with all sorts of military contractors and beholden to corporate special interests as well as minority religious fundementalists and has made absolutely no move to attempt to solve the USA's burgeoning poverty problem (about 12% of the nation is at or below the poverty line, the highest for any developed country). Oh and don't even get me started on his "No child left behind" B.S. which was completely non-funded by the Federal government and forced States to pick up the tab during a nationwide recession.

The two men are about as different as you can be, yet they both belong to the same Republican party.

I personally can't find any rational way to explain this than to submit that maybe its the natural evolution of the Republican party being out of power for nearly two decades. Even when Reagan was president, we have to remember that the legislature was completely controlled by Democrats. I think they have swung farther to the right in an effort to radicalize their base and win majorities. This is the unfortunate outcome of our two party system and the nation needs a bit of surgery to rectify the situation.

I favor instant run-off elections starting at the state level. If the legislature had to form majority consensus spread across more than two political parties then it could help bring the average character of the discourse in Washington back down to a more moderate level.
 
Perhaps, if California were to secede .... Oregon and Washington would join in .... and quite probably British Columbia would secede from Canada .... and we would all give Georgey and (....whassisname in Ottawa....?) something to worry about !

Just think ... Arnie as "Pres." .... and an economy backed by "BC Gold" ... ? Yeeeehah !

Couldn't lose .....! :box: :clap:

Regards,

?W????
 
Not quite a joke actually since there are people in both BC and Washington that want to form their own country called Cascadia. :D

Although seriously... I shudder at the thought of President Arnie. Don't get me wrong, the guy hasn't done anything to mortally offend me but you just know he's a big embarassment waiting to happen.
 
Mal said:
I hardly consider G.W.B. to be the paragon of Republican ideals. Infact, if anything the Republican party of today is so far away from what the party has historically stood for you can almost argue that it isn't even the Republican party anymore.
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But that just doesn't matter anymore. It's nice to try and understand how things became what they are, but now we just have to deal with what it's become. And what it's become is not willing to compromise or cooperate.

Let us not forget...
200px-Newnewmap.jpg
 
I think Saskatchewan should be green, too .....!

Other than that - the Map is fine !

Shall we all take a vote, folks ?

Regards,

?W????
 
And If all that were to happen, Nunavut
images
and Quebec
images
would probably form their own countries too. Although isn't Nunavut already unoffcially seperate from Canada? North America would become very divided.
 
Honestly as a Californian I wouldn't want to be saddled with most of Canada. Don't get me wrong, they're good people but lets be realistic - they would just be a drain on the potential awesomeness of our economy.

We should do from San Diego up through B.C. as the new country and then annex Hawaii and rename it "Vacation Island". I could then open up my chain of cos-play themed strip clubs and soak every last yen out of Japan.
 
Speaking for British Columbia - we wouldn't like to be saddled with the rest of Canada either !

Your idea is excellent !

Oh ...and ... Brooker - Nunavut is part of Canada, it just isn't a fully-fledged Province. Merely a Territory, with somewhat limited authority and status.

Regards,

?W????

(Presidential-Candidate-for-Cascadia-Elect-In-Waiting ... vote now and get a free MP3 player !)
 
Oh ...and ... Brooker - Nunavut is part of Canada, it just isn't a fully-fledged Province. Merely a Territory, with somewhat limited authority and status.
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Oh so its like Puerto Rico except ... uh... without all the Puerto Ricans.

And if you're assigning yourself ficticious rank in this new country then I demand that you appoint me as the Pornography and Drug Czar. For how long these guys have been doing this job there is far too little pornography and drugs floating around. They should be ashamed at their ineffectiveness.
 
Just take your place in the line-up ..... you can borrow my car to get to the end ......

Regards,

?W????
 
It sure would be great to be as great as you guys

Awful full of ourselves here talking about the backward economy draining center of the country. It's divisionists that weaken what America stands for, Ive lived in California and also Idaho, I can tell you when it comes right down to it there are more similarities than differences between the 2. People with a left wing bias like to think they are the "intellectual, productive ones in our society" and for argument sake lets say that's true but although the wise kind benevolent Sen. Kerry won the "blue" states he barely won them and though the "red states" chose the "clueless baffoon" President Bush they barely chose them in most cases all states were decided by a few percentage points, so as an American may I suggest we stop trying to act all superior and realize that we all have more in common than not.
 
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