Where did proto Indo Iranian speakers ancestry orignate

[Fire Haired]

over 2,000 year old gold depicting Indo Iranian speaking sycthians in central asia. In most ancient art depicting them they have simple clothing that coveres their arms and legs, long hair, and huge beards and uselly doing something with horses. Horse's and chariots were extremely important to Indo Iranian culture.

3,000 year old mummy of a Indo Iranian speaker in tarium basin of China 6 feet 6 inches tall brown hair and red facial hair. He is named Charchen man he was buried with his 1 year old son who had brown hair and a woman who was probably his wife she also had brown hair. On bottom is 3,000 year old Indo Iranian mummy of a woman with same style of clothing similar hair style and blonde hair.

2,400 year old paintg of a Sycthian horseman in the Atlai mountains near Mongolia where there had been Indo Iranian settlment for over 4,000 years.

Indo Iranian is a branch of the Indo European language family tree they also have their own branch of R1a which is R1a1a1b2 Z93. Based on the fact their R1a1a1b2 is the brother of Balto Slavic R1a1a1b1 Z280 and that proto Balto Slavic speaking Corded war culture and proto Indo Iranian speaking Abashevo culture and sintashta culture. All originated in Yamna culture could mean Indo Iranian and Balto Slavic form their own branch together. All we can say for sure is that proto Indo Iranian speakers branched out of Yamna culture which took up alot of central Russia, Ukraine, and parts of Kazakhstan.


map of Yamna culture

They started migrating out of Yamana culture east into central Asia starting at the very earliest 5,000ybp. They formed into abashevo and sintashta cultures in central Asia between 5,000-4,000ybp. The Indo Iranians spread in alot of areas in central asia from 5,000-3,400ybp. They had land all around the Caspian sea, south Siberia, west China, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Iran they were they had more land than any ethnic group in the world at that time.

Here is a map of the migration of proto Indo European R1a1a1 M417 ​

this does not mean R1a1a1 M417 is the only proto Indo European haplogroup or that all Indo European languages spread with mainly this haplogroup. This was made by Eupedia and is based on all the info we have so far from ancient DNA, modern DNA, and Archaeology. It also shows how Indo Iranian's migrated starting with R1a1a1b2 Z93.

Family tree of Y DNA R1a. INdo European R1a starts at R1a1a1 M417. R1a1a1b2 Z93 is the Indo Iranian branch.​

The proto Indo Iranians ancestry orignally was from around Russia and Ukriane that is all we know. They may have been descended of very early Indo European speakers possibly the first in Dnieper Donets culture around Ukraine 7,000-8,000ybp. Or their ancestors were conquered by the earliest Indo European speakers and most of their ancestry came from non Indo European hunter gathers or farmers in Russia. '


Here are full DNA results from ancient Indo Iranians
I did not count Mongliod groups in the mtDNA because they lived around Mongliods for 3,000 years it was probably from inter marriage. They defintley did already had some Mongliod groups before migrating to central asia since 7,000 year old mtDNA from very early Indo European Dneiper Donets culture had some Mongliod groups.


mtDNA 78 samples




U=25 32.05%(U5=12 15.4%,(U5a=11 14%(U5a1=7 9%), U2=4 5.1%(U2e=3 3.8%(U2e1=1 1.3%), U4=3 3.85% U7=1 1.3%, U1=1 1.3%)




H=16 20.5%(H6=1 1.3%, H5=1 1.2%, H2a1=1 1.2%)




T=15 19.2%(T1=8 10.3%(T1a=2 2.6%), T3=3 3.8%, T2=2 2.6%(T2a1b1=1 1.2%)




HV=6 7.7%(HV2=2 2.6%,HV6=1 1.3%)




K=5 6.4%(K2b=1 1.3%)




I=4 5.1%(I3=2 2.6%, I4=1 1.6%J=3 3.8%(




J1=2 2.6%




H or U=3 3.8 or J=1 1.3%

Y DNA samples 17




R1a1a=16, C=1




Hair color samples=10 i did not count Tarium mummies because they have east asian mtDNA they where a mix of European and east Asian and had black hair no Europeans have black hair only dark Brown most west Eurasians don't have black hair there is no way the black hair came from Indo Iranians the only sample to have dark brown hair also had east Asian Y DNA C so i did not count him either he was not consistent with other Indo Iranian remains i know that there are 3,400 and 3,000ybp tarium mummies with red hair but i did not count them because there are many more Tarium mummies where they know the hair color but the ones with red hair make the news so i don't think it is accurate if i only count the redhead ones but i need to say red hair did exist in Indo Iranians




Indo Iranian hair color 10 samples




light brown/blonde=6 60%, Brown=4 40%




Eye color samples=20




blue/green eyes=15 75%, Brown eyes=5 25%




So what ancient DNA tell's us is they were mainly light brown- blonde haired and mainly blue and green eyed. The only area's who find such high percentages is Scandinavia, Baltic sea area, and northwestern Russia. Also that they had at least 3% red hair the tarium mummie's prove it but also Sycthians in ancient Greeks writting were described as red haired. Also red hair sometimes pop's up in modern Indo Iranian speaking ethnic groups in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and in west china were there used to be Indo Iranians who were conquered by Turkic speakers.


So this is my estimate on what hair color and eye color proto Indo Iranian speakers had 40-60% light brown- blonde hair, 45-50% brown hair, and 3-15% red hair. 60-70% non brown eyes and the rest brown. The only area in Europe beside's western Europe that has over 1% red hair is in volga Russia. The Udmurts have the highest in the world 15-20% and ethnic groups around them have at least 1% so that might give an idea of were the proto Indo Iranian speakers ancestry came from.


Here is a map of red hair made by Eupedia. Focus on the red hair in Russia that is probably around the area proto Indo Iranians ancestry came from. So kind of at the eastern border of Europe and pretty far north.

On the top is a map of light eyes which the proto Indo Iranian speakers were probably around 50-70% and o the bottom a map of light hair which proto Indo Iranian speakers were around 40-60%.

This is now kind of confusing the area of red hair in central Russia makes it seem that could be were proto Indo Iranians speakers ancestry originated. Those area's though have alot less light hair and eye's than early Indo Iranian remains. Just going off hair color and eye color my guess is their ancestry is from around Volga Russia or northern Russia also at the eastern border of Europe. So they probably were in the far northern and eastern border of Yamna culture. Which also probably means since Yamna culture and it's father Dnieper Donets culture orignated around Ukriane and russia but not central or northern Russia that proto Indo iranian's ancestors were conquered by R1a1a1b Indo Europeans probably 5,000-5,500ybp. So when they migrated out of Russia to central asia 5,000-4,000ybp they would have been people just conquered by Yamna R1a1a1b people.


All we know from the Y DNA is they were pretty much all R1a1a they did not test for the Indo Iranian branch R1a1a1b2 but there is almost no doubt they had it. Pretty much all Indo European speakers today have over 30% Y DNA of Indo European origin but that does not tell their full ancestry. When Indo Europeans conquered people they killed the native men in battle so they killed off alot of the native Y DNA and replaced it with their own by becoming the high ranking people in the society forcing as many women as they want to be their wives or prostitates. The ancestry of people conquered by Indo Europeans mainly comes from the native people and the mtDNA mainly stays the same. So the mtDNA of ancient Indo Iranian remains in my opinion is the best way beside's hair color and eye color to find where they originally came from.


One thing that surprised me is they had so much T1 a total of 10.3% of their mtDNA. From over 1,500 mtDNA samples in Neolithic to Iron age Europe it is extremely extremely extremely rare to find a T1 almost all T was T2 and the fact they had 10.3% is very surprising. I could not really find any info on T1 if anyone has any info please post it. I did look at mtDNA of Udmurts and other non Slavic ethnic groups around Volga Russia the Udmurts had over 10% T1 and T1 was much more popular than in the rest of Europe. So i guess that is even more evidence proto Indo Iranian speakers originated central to northern Russia.

Conclsuion​

This is what i think the ethnic origin of the proto Indo Iranian speakers is. They descend from a mix of invading Indo European Y DNA R1a1a1b people from more southern Russia apart of Yamna culture and hunter gathers in Volga Russia and northern Russia. This mix would have happened about 5,000ybp right about the time they started to migrate to central Asia. The Y DNA of their hunter gather ancestors was probably hg I maybe I2a1b or I1a they also may have been originally Uralic speakers so that would mean they had alot of N1c. I know that there is about 15-20% I2a1b in Indo Iranian kurdish people of Iraq, Syria, and Iran but that may have come from later cimmerian invasions around 2,600ybp Cimmermans came from around the black sea where I2a1b is very popular. I dont know if there is any trace of I1, I2a1b, or N1c with the spread of Indo Iranian languages. This could mean the first speakers were almost completely R1a1a1b2.


Area i think proto Indo Iranian speakers ancestry came from