Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[lynxbythetv]

Both groups were part of the broader Illyrian cultural sphere, and the Dardanians were often considered a subgroup or closely related to the Illyrians.
Onomastic studies have revealed similarities between the Illyrian and Dardanian languages or dialects. While the exact nature of these linguistic connections remains a subject of debate, it suggests a degree of cultural and linguistic affinity between these groups.
The fact remains that genetically Albanians are related to both groups, albeit the modern numbers and the linguistic studies favor the Dardanian path of ethnogenesis.

What study should I look at the see the similarities between Illyrian and Dardanian ?

 

[lynxbythetv]

I see you laugh archetypeone. I would like to hear your opinions.

 

[lynxbythetv]

Proto-Albanoid term diellina "henbane".[36] This term was mentioned as a "Thracian-Dacian" phytonym by the Ancient Greek pharmacologist Pedanius Dioscorides (1st century AD), and it has a clear etymological connection with the Albanian word diell "sun" (diellina "henbane" belongs to the genus called solanum with the Latin root sol "sun", being so named because of its yellow leaves).

Foclóir Gaeilge–Béarla (Ó Dónaill): dealramh

Everything about 'dealramh' in the Ó Dónaill Irish-English Dictionary

www.teanglann.ie

Clear etymological connection to Goedelic aswell.

 

[Neander]

Wow, so you're saying that Albanian comes from Albania? Makes sense to me. I would place the core genesis in the northern half of the blue-shaded area, as Albanian appears to have more Latin influence than Greek and therefore would have been more likely to originate north of the Jirecek line.

Jirecek line is stupidity. I wonder how some great scholars gave credit to this stupidity.

Since we know that:
1. it was Heracles from the year 610 that replaced latin with greek as an official language of empire,
2. It was Emperor Leo III Isaur who detached christian churches in albanian are from the rule of Rome dhe joined them to constantinople (that means from latin vocabulary to greek one)
3. Ancient toponyms were evolving by albanian phonetic rules in the south of this so-called line

From the first argument we have the case of albanian word shkije shkjau which came from Sclavus or Slavenus. Ancestors of albanians simply fought against these invaders fighting within the roman army as roman warriors, roman in official sense. They knew them as Sclaveni, and his wrod evolved according to albanian phonetic rules, and gave dhe word Shkjav Shkjau, etj.

From the second argument, we knoe an example, as both toske and gege have latin vocabulary for church and liturgy. Even tosks who are orthodoxes, have latin vocabulary. Tosks say shpirt (from latin spiritus) and not Psike from greek. This is explained very well by the fact that the church was under the administration of Rome until 732 when Leo III Isaures detached it from Rome.

Ancient toponyms evolved according to albanian phonetic rules like Aulona > Avlona > Vlona > Vlora, Thyamios > Tiamis > Çam-ëria, Apolonia > Pojani, Oraculus > Frakulli etj.

In the light of these facts, the so called Jirecek line is just a stupidity, if we use it in these matters. Well it may have some values for example, maybe it was the kind of artistic scripts used on some special kind of inscriptions, which is another genre and another topic, for another time.

 

[Neander]

I am interested into seeing if hungarian, even daugh it is a uralic language, has retained a little bit of pannonian vocabules from the local pre-magyar people, because i think we could find some similarities, for instance: I heard a friend of mine, who is hungarian, saying to her mother via telephone something that i first recognized as an english bad word (pu**y) but that then when i asked her she told me that the world was "puszi" wich means kiss;
In albanian Puthje is kiss, and so i started getting interested into this topic of common hungarian-albanian words, of course i didn't find much out there because i haven't yet deeply researched them but another characteristic and quite interesting one is this: in hungary they don't use "Police" or some similiar world for their police, while everyone else in europe does, they use Rendorszegg, the meaning of wich i asked this friend of mine again and she told me that it means litterally Order keepers, where Rendor is the world form public order while szegg is used to attach the meaning -keepers to the world Rendor.
In albanian Rendi/Rend is oublic order.
I don't know, tell me what you think about this, maybe pannonia was albanian speaking before the magyars and the romans arrived? who knows.

There is a hungarian region called Veszprém which in albanian means ear-cut, some kind of harsh punishment where the man was cut the ear. Like this, Skenderbeg cut the ear of Ballaban Pasha after the later was defeated.

Also the name of lake Balaton, is related to albanian Baltë-balta means mud.

Also near this area in the wouth-west Hungary is largest concentration of dinaric anthropological type, which is linked to the illyrian-thracian ancestry at least in Europe (everywhere you find dinaric race, you also find albanian substrate)

- The case with satem, which some memebers here insist without knowledge:

Albanians are kentum, let see some examples we say KATËR with K, while satem use Ç ose SH like Çetiri in slavic, or SHTAR in hindu etc

 

[Neander]

It's my opinion, right? Everyone is entitled to his/hers. Here is what I base mine on. There are a lot more loanwords from the Slavic and Romanian/romance language than the Greek language. There are very few loanwords in Greek from Albanian. You would think that there would be more if you lived next to each other over 3000 years. Greek, Roman, Celtic, Thracian and Illyrian are vowel rich languages. Albanian or shall I say Arvanitika is not. It sounds Slavic to my ears.

Gorgiev, one of the foremost authorities on Balkan languages also thinks so and so do a lot of Romanian linguists and historians.

Because a big people, or big country like Illyria, could not have been impacted so much by some microscopic colonies somewhere in coastland. There are some words which were imported together with objects they represented like Fier (fern), Lakën (cabbage), Pjepën (melon) etc. It is enough impact for a few small colonies which were relatively isolated from illyrians.

It is another case with roman, who occupied the whole territory, the rule was stronger, there was no such isolation between peoples, but all were integrated (for example Great Illyrian Revolt, in fact was revolt of a part of roman army against the whole empire)

 

[epirus1000]

From the second argument, we knoe an example, as both toske and gege have latin vocabulary for church and liturgy. Even tosks who are orthodoxes, have latin vocabulary. Tosks say shpirt (from latin spiritus) and not Psike from greek. This is explained very well by the fact that the church was under the administration of Rome until 732 when Leo III Isaures detached it from Rome.

It's not just the latin vocabulary for church and liturgy. It's basically the names of churches which followed latin words till modern times, although there is huge pressure NOW by the Greek Orthodox Church, to change the centuries-old names of churches into greek ones.
So, no year 732. Basically in year 1923 and 1993 you could find just a handful of not Latin names of churches in South Albania.

 

[lynxbythetv]

There is a hungarian region called Veszprém which in albanian means ear-cut, some kind of harsh punishment where the man was cut the ear. Like this, Skenderbeg cut the ear of Ballaban Pasha after the later was defeated.

Also the name of lake Balaton, is related to albanian Baltë-balta means mud.

Also near this area in the wouth-west Hungary is largest concentration of dinaric anthropological type, which is linked to the illyrian-thracian ancestry at least in Europe (everywhere you find dinaric race, you also find albanian substrate)

- The case with satem, which some memebers here insist without knowledge:

Albanians are kentum, let see some examples we say KATËR with K, while satem use Ç ose SH like Çetiri in slavic, or SHTAR in hindu etc

Balaton means farm mate. Balaton is just farm town. Balla is attested in Brythonic and Goedelic languages now I can see Balla changing into fertile soil. It's not a term that is uniquely albanian.

 

[torzio]

Because a big people, or big country like Illyria, could not have been impacted so much by some microscopic colonies somewhere in coastland. There are some words which were imported together with objects they represented like Fier (fern), Lakën (cabbage), Pjepën (melon) etc. It is enough impact for a few small colonies which were relatively isolated from illyrians.

It is another case with roman, who occupied the whole territory, the rule was stronger, there was no such isolation between peoples, but all were integrated (for example Great Illyrian Revolt, in fact was revolt of a part of roman army against the whole empire)

not sure what you mean in your great illyrian revolt
it was only from the purple and yellow areas in map below.

 

[torzio]

census on who fought in the great illyrian revolt

 

[Neander]

not sure what you mean in your great illyrian revolt
it was only from the purple and yellow areas in map below.

It begin as a small revolt of two tribes, Desidiates and Breuci, but acording to historical resources, it was taken in the hands of some educated illyrians, soldiers and comanders in roman army. They knew latin language, roman discipline and some hard sciences which they learned in school. They were led by Pines and two other were called Bato. Their number became one million. From them 200 thousand were soldiers of Rome foot-soldiers, 8.000 were knights in roman army, and 800 thousand were simply rebels, and not oficially roman soldiers. Their goal was to destroy roman empire and logicaly to create some empire of their own. The first colon would go to Macedonia, the second would stay in Illyria, and the third would go in Italy to destroy Rome.

It was these illyrians in roman army who wanted rebellion to continue, and it was some simple people who wanted it to end. These are facts which you can find in Dio Cassius and others who wriote about this.

Almos whole illyria was involved in this rebellion.

 

[Neander]

It's not just the latin vocabulary for church and liturgy. It's basically the names of churches which followed latin words till modern times, although there is huge pressure NOW by the Greek Orthodox Church, to change the centuries-old names of churches into greek ones.
So, no year 732. Basically in year 1923 and 1993 you could find just a handful of not Latin names of churches in South Albania.

I mean, in 732 as is historically confirmed, Leo III Isaur, detached these albanian churches from Rome, and attached them to constantinople, and it has nothing to do with greeks of XX century. Sot albanians coninues in these churches, but vocabulary remain latin, as it is still today among tosks. So my point is this: Albanians had enough time to absorb latin vocabulary from the 380 AD when christianization took place untill 732.

 

[epirus1000]

I mean, in 732 as is historically confirmed, Leo III Isaur, detached these albanian churches from Rome, and attached them to constantinople, and it has nothing to do with greeks of XX century. Sot albanians coninues in these churches, but vocabulary remain latin, as it is still today among tosks. So my point is this: Albanians had enough time to absorb latin vocabulary from the 380 AD when christianization took place untill 732.

I would not put such a clear cut date as per 732.
The Great Schism was on 1054, and Albanian territories at that time were in the borderline area between west and east.
I still want to stress the fact that not only the language, but also the naming of the churches was overwhelming in Latin in South Albania, which means that Albanians in general maintained the same church naming conventions although there were part-time on one side, or the other side of the schism border.

 

[torzio]

It begin as a small revolt of two tribes, Desidiates and Breuci, but acording to historical resources, it was taken in the hands of some educated illyrians, soldiers and comanders in roman army. They knew latin language, roman discipline and some hard sciences which they learned in school. They were led by Pines and two other were called Bato. Their number became one million. From them 200 thousand were soldiers of Rome foot-soldiers, 8.000 were knights in roman army, and 800 thousand were simply rebels, and not oficially roman soldiers. Their goal was to destroy roman empire and logicaly to create some empire of their own. The first colon would go to Macedonia, the second would stay in Illyria, and the third would go in Italy to destroy Rome.

It was these illyrians in roman army who wanted rebellion to continue, and it was some simple people who wanted it to end. These are facts which you can find in Dio Cassius and others who wriote about this.

Almos whole illyria was involved in this rebellion.

I hope you did not use Wiki BS army numbers as they are exaggerated ......................only 7 roman legions where involved and at that time a legion had only 5500 men .....................your numbers do not add up

revolt had zero "southern illyrian" tribes involved

 

[Neander]

I would not put such a clear cut date as per 732.
The Great Schism was on 1054, and Albanian territories at that time were in the borderline area between west and east.
I still want to stress the fact that not only the language, but also the naming of the churches was overwhelming in Latin in South Albania, which means that Albanians in general maintained the same church naming conventions although there were part-time on one side, or the other side of the schism border.

I am not talking about great schism. Two christian centers were divided administratively even before schism. To be clearer: every church has its own superior, every suprior ha its own superior, this is called hierarchy and administration. Tha albanian chruches of that time had their own center in Vatikan, and from 732 onward they had their center in Constantinople.

Read more about subject to know what I am talking about.

Leo III the Isaurian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Neander]

I hope you did not use Wiki BS army numbers as they are exaggerated ......................only 7 roman legions where involved and at that time a legion had only 5500 men .....................your numbers do not add up

revolt had zero "southern illyrian" tribes involved

Naive boy, look better with whom do you talk. I take in consideration classical authors for such important matters. Don't make calculations without reading historical accounts!

Read roman author C. Vellei Paterculi "Historiae Romanae", book II, I will translate in english, cause I have it only in albanian version translated by albanian academics:

"- The whole number of the peoples and tribes which rebeled, was more than eight hundred thousand; regular army included almost two hundred thousand footsoldiers fit for arms, and nine thousand knights. From this very large multitude which was comanded by very brave and very well trained commanders, one part would attack Italy, which by the port of Nauport and tergeste was linked to their lands, another part attacked Macedonia, and the last part was decided to protect the country. General leadership was assigned to two leaders, Bato and Pini. All panonians knew not only roman discipline, but also latin language. Most of them affectionate after literature, and were familiar with the mind exercises...

...Roman citizens were suppressed, merchants were killed, a large number of soldiers were massacred in that region which was so far from empire. Macedonia was occupied militarily, everywhere everything was destroyed by fire and iron. this war caused so much horror that even spirit of Cesar August, that spirit strong by nature and strengthened from the experience of many wild wars, was shocked and horrified."

So we have 800 000 + 200 000 + 9000 = 1.009.000
And not a single ancient author doesnt mention that stupidity of yours which I bolded

 

[epirus1000]

I am not talking about great schism. Two christian centers were divided administratively even before schism. To be clearer: every church has its own superior, every suprior ha its own superior, this is called hierarchy and administration. Tha albanian chruches of that time had their own center in Vatikan, and from 732 onward they had their center in Constantinople.

Read more about subject to know what I am talking about.

Leo III the Isaurian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I read a little bit about this Leo III and its iconoclast campaigns.
I don't think that fighting some own church traditions could make feasible these administrative changes that you mention.

 

[torzio]

Naive boy, look better with whom do you talk. I take in consideration classical authors for such important matters. Don't make calculations without reading historical accounts!

Read roman author C. Vellei Paterculi "Historiae Romanae", book II, I will translate in english, cause I have it only in albanian version translated by albanian academics:

"- The whole number of the peoples and tribes which rebeled, was more than eight hundred thousand; regular army included almost two hundred thousand footsoldiers fit for arms, and nine thousand knights. From this very large multitude which was comanded by very brave and very well trained commanders, one part would attack Italy, which by the port of Nauport and tergeste was linked to their lands, another part attacked Macedonia, and the last part was decided to protect the country. General leadership was assigned to two leaders, Bato and Pini. All panonians knew not only roman discipline, but also latin language. Most of them affectionate after literature, and were familiar with the mind exercises...

...Roman citizens were suppressed, merchants were killed, a large number of soldiers were massacred in that region which was so far from empire. Macedonia was occupied militarily, everywhere everything was destroyed by fire and iron. this war caused so much horror that even spirit of Cesar August, that spirit strong by nature and strengthened from the experience of many wild wars, was shocked and horrified."

So we have 800 000 + 200 000 + 9000 = 1.009.000
And not a single ancient author doesnt mention that stupidity of yours which I bolded

look at post # 4170

Another useless nationalistic person I will ignore ..............

 

[bigsnake49]

Naive boy, look better with whom do you talk. I take in consideration classical authors for such important matters. Don't make calculations without reading historical accounts!

Read roman author C. Vellei Paterculi "Historiae Romanae", book II, I will translate in english, cause I have it only in albanian version translated by albanian academics:

"- The whole number of the peoples and tribes which rebeled, was more than eight hundred thousand; regular army included almost two hundred thousand footsoldiers fit for arms, and nine thousand knights. From this very large multitude which was comanded by very brave and very well trained commanders, one part would attack Italy, which by the port of Nauport and tergeste was linked to their lands, another part attacked Macedonia, and the last part was decided to protect the country. General leadership was assigned to two leaders, Bato and Pini. All panonians knew not only roman discipline, but also latin language. Most of them affectionate after literature, and were familiar with the mind exercises...

...Roman citizens were suppressed, merchants were killed, a large number of soldiers were massacred in that region which was so far from empire. Macedonia was occupied militarily, everywhere everything was destroyed by fire and iron. this war caused so much horror that even spirit of Cesar August, that spirit strong by nature and strengthened from the experience of many wild wars, was shocked and horrified."

So we have 800 000 + 200 000 + 9000 = 1.009.000
And not a single ancient author doesnt mention that stupidity of yours which I bolded

Yep, just like the Persians had a million soldiers in Thermopylae according to Herodotus. I doubt there were 1 million people total in the rebelling territories. Take everything that the ancient authors say with a large bat of salt, even medieval authors.

 

[monster]

In 1487, Albanian toponyms such as Arbanas were mentioned in the Nahija of Llapi.[7] Ottoman writer Evliya Celebi mentioned the Llapi river as having "its source in Albania" and joining other rivers before flowing into the Danube, during one of his travels to Kosovo in the 1660s.[8]

Same area where the Gashi tribe were settled later:

During the Austro-Turkish War of 1683-1699, the Gashi and the other Catholic tribes of the area supported the Austrians, and were therefore punished by the Ottomans after the defeat of the Austrians.[18] In the years 1690-1693, the village of Gash was burned down by the Pasha of Peja and its population was expelled to the Llap region in Kosovo.[19]

This is basically what these clowns use to supposedly claim some kind of settlement of Albanians in these territory in the 18th century ? In areas that had already been Albanian ? Hahaha .