Who are the Greatest warriors in history

[Reinaert]

The Dutch are culturally and linguistically Germanic.


The Lowland Scots are partly Anglo-Saxon (Germanic) while the Highland Scots are partly Norse (Germanic).

YDNA is only one ancestral line among many.
Only genome-wide studies give you a complete genetic picture.

Yeah.. Talk more nonsense, and they will love you on this forum as a clown.
You really don't know where you are talking about.

YDNA is only one ancestral line among many.

Woohaaaaaaaaaa.... :innocent:

YDNA is the straight forward line from father to son..
You can't get more precise than that.

It's a joke the Scots would have Germanic and Norse fathers.

I guess they may have made many Germanic and Norse ladies pregnant with their Celtic good looks and sharp wits... :grin:

And another thing.
You shouldn't talk about how the Dutch are.
You really don't understand.
The Dutch are a divided people.
They always were.
Celts, Germanic, Norse, and other people in a Republic of 17 different Provinces!!!!

Ok, part of The Netherlands is Germanic and Norse.
But that isn't true for the rest of the country.

The political difficulties in The Netherlands nowadays are related to the cultural differences.

A Sassenach will never understand that.

The Dutch are NOT one people.
The Dutch are NOT one nation.

 

[sparkey]

Reinaert, I think you and Vallicanus are talking past one another. Vallicanus is right, to a large degree... Dutch is clearly a Germanic language, all of the Dutch provinces speak a Germanic language as their primary language, and the Dutch (all of them) fit into the West Germanic cultural framework. But at the same time, you're right... many of the Dutch descend from Germanicized Celts, and the differences in heritage can be felt within Dutch culture. You, no doubt, descend from lots of Germanicized Celts.

Your ancestors probably became Germanicized a long time ago. They have probably been speaking a Germanic language and participating in Germanic culture for that long period. How much longer do you feel your Dutch relatives will have to do so before they become Germanic, or will they always be Celts even if they've forgotten all of the old words and customs? Do you actually, yourself, try to revive any of the old Celtic customs, or is your identification as a Celt strictly genetic? Because if it's strictly genetic, that seems like a tenuous connection to me...

I mean, for example, I've got both Celtic and Germanic ancestry from different places, but at the moment I participate in a Germanic (English-speaking) culture. So although I have some Celtic heritage (Brythonic specifically), I'm effectively Germanic. I have taken a lesson in Welsh but don't know that language particularly well. I observed St. David's Day and St. Piran's Day this year. I feel I could become more Celtic if I continued down the path of learning Welsh and participated in more Welsh & Cornish customs. But currently, even my connection is tenuous.

 

[Vallicanus]

Sparkey sums up the linguistic and cultural situation well while Reinaert should not presume to teach me Scottish history.

You cannot define yourself by Y-dna alone. What about your father's maternal relatives and all the ancestral lines inherited from your mother?

I suspect Reinaert is a troll who has not got a clue about genome-wide studies. Perhaps he should surf the net and learn about the commercial companies that deal with such matters.

 

[Melusine]

Why is this thread now OFF TOPIC?

Try the DNA section.

Melusine

 

[sparkey]

Why is this thread now OFF TOPIC?

Because it's the kind of tangent that interests us weird people who come to this forum. :cool-v:

But seriously, bring us back on topic, then. I can help by naming a group that hasn't been brought up yet: Swiss pikes. They were not the best at conquering territory, but were incredibly effective at repelling knights in 15th century Switzerland. A lot has to be said for a good defense... and the rest of Europe took note and employed them as mercenaries. Against the listed choices, I would take them against the samurai, knights, Huns, gladiators, highlanders, and Vikings. They would need favorable terrain to beat the Mongols, but that would certainly be doable in Switzerland. Musketeers is not a fair comparison because they come from a later time period... although it's worth noting that the primary downfall of the Swiss pikes was their weakness against gunpowder weapons.

 

[Melusine]

I searched forum and did find Hannibal and his army.

He is regarded in military history "among the best military strategist and tacticians"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal

Never mind that he "did himself in".

Melusine

 

[Vallicanus]

Don't forget the Spanish conquistadores in the New World.

Faced with a strange environment and the shifting tactics of cunning enemies "the Spanish adventurers, sprung from the common people, displayed a fertility of resource, and a talent for negotiation and command, to which history scarcely affords a parallel" (Lord Macaulay).

 

[Melusine]

The Spanish conquering Mexico were great warriors??

The conquest was not about "defending ones country (Spain), the peoples of the Americas did nothing to Spain , they did not go there and rape, plunder and "shove" their religion unto anyone.

This was genocide against a people who were "superstitious" and had never seen a White man, and a horse. When the Spaniards arrived in Mexico they dis-embarked from their ships in full armor and and on horseback, the Natives were sure that their "god" had returned to them and fell to the ground and worshiped them. They could have attacted them and instead offered them "hospitality", to be repaid by murder and theft.

Gold and Silver was taken by the boatloads to Spain until the mines ran dry.

The Spanish (warriors??) conquerors raped and used the native women and killed thousands of males for their own gratification and GREED.

History has confirmed the above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_the_Aztec_Empire

Lord Macaulay was a "jundiced spector of Spanish/Mexican history.".

Melusine

 

[LeBrok]

The Spanish conquering Mexico were great warriors??

The conquest was not about "defending ones country (Spain), the peoples of the Americas did nothing to Spain , they did not go there and rape, plunder and "shove" their religion unto anyone.

This was genocide against a people who were "superstitious" and had never seen a White man, and a horse. When the Spaniards arrived in Mexico they dis-embarked from their ships in full armor and and on horseback, the Natives were sure that their "god" had returned to them and fell to the ground and worshiped them. They could have attacted them and instead offered them "hospitality", to be repaid by murder and theft.

Gold and Silver was taken by the boatloads to Spain until the mines ran dry.

The Spanish (warriors??) conquerors raped and used the native women and killed thousands of males for their own gratification and GREED.

History has confirmed the above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_the_Aztec_Empire

Lord Macaulay was a "jundiced spector of Spanish/Mexican history.".

Melusine

All warriors raped and pillaged giving the right circumstances. The question is what group of warriors were the best in fighting, therefore the best warriors.
Personally I didn't vote, as we don't have enough info to make a valid decision.

 

[Vallicanus]

As LeBrok said, all soldiers will rape and pillage, in the past or in the present, given the right circumstances.

Let's set emotionalism aside and look at facts. :useless:

As warriors the few hundred Spaniards led by Cortes showed remarkable courage and resource.
The Aztecs they conquered were so bloody (tearing out the hearts of living victims etc) that many thousands of native Mexicans (Tlaxcalans) joined the Spaniards.

Pizarro in the Inca Empire was also ruthless and not to the taste of modern bleeding-hearts but he too showed remarkable political and military skill.

Given the gruesome modern record of wars and genocides recent mankind has no cause to judge a past where the mindset was totally different and probably less hypocritical than today.

 

[Melusine]

True, all warriors raped and pillaged giving the right circumstances.

The Spanish conquistadors would not stand the test of a warrior's code. Less than a thousand men did not conquer a whole empire of millions (Aztecs) with their fighting skills, courage, they did it with using "psychological warfare (using the Aztec religious beliefs), with the "help" of other indigenous tribes of Mexico, and used this without MERCY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior

In the above URL there is a list of "other warriors".

BTW: related to genetics (off topic here), this is a very good reason and explanation of how the various y-dna haplogroups were introduced to every country (in the world) since the "caveman" and before to present, no country in the world nor Europe has escaped the raveges of war/warriors and their rape and pillage.

Melusine

 

[Vallicanus]

Warrior's code?

Don't be naive. There are no just or bloodless wars.

All wars are about butchery and treachery not like some third-rate Hollywood schmalzy film.

 

[Reinaert]

Warrior's code?

Don't be naive. There are no just or bloodless wars.

All wars are about butchery and treachery not like some third-rate Hollywood schmalzy film.

Haha.. This is what I mean.

Vallicanus uses a language that is not familiar with what happened in Celtic Europe. The Celts surely had a warrior code.
Honor is most important.

People without honor don't understand that.

 

[Reinaert]

Don't forget the Spanish conquistadores in the New World.

Faced with a strange environment and the shifting tactics of cunning enemies "the Spanish adventurers, sprung from the common people, displayed a fertility of resource, and a talent for negotiation and command, to which history scarcely affords a parallel" (Lord Macaulay).

Another proof Vallicanus is stupid to believe this shit.

The Spanish happened to enter South America in a point in time when the population were totally against the rulers. That's why they got so many support by the natives they could overrun the ruling South American empires.

The Spanish themselves were shifting from liberators into robbers in a very short time. Greed is always very bad. And also their inhuman behavior against people and animals.
The Spanish inquisition, bull fighting.. Fascism..

Sorry, but Spain hasn't a right to be member of the EU!

 

[Vallicanus]

Haha.. This is what I mean.

Vallicanus uses a language that is not familiar with what happened in Celtic Europe. The Celts surely had a warrior code.
Honor is most important.

People without honor don't understand that.

What "warrior code" would that be, my phoney Celt who is really a Dutch Germanic?
Celts were head hunters.

War is always and everywhere a filthy business and only people of kindergarten mentality like you believe otherwise.

The bottom line is that the Romans conquered the continental Celts and those in South Britain.
Nearly all modern "Celts" speak languages derived from their conquerors, either Romance or Germanic.

You are a troll's troll.

 

[Reinaert]

What "warrior code" would that be, my phoney Celt who is really a Dutch Germanic?
Celts were head hunters.

War is always and everywhere a filthy business and only people of kindergarten mentality like you believe otherwise.

The bottom line is that the Romans conquered the continental Celts and those in South Britain.
Nearly all modern "Celts" speak languages derived from their conquerors, either Romance or Germanic.

You are a troll's troll.

And you are a stupid ass troll.
Your stupidness shows with everything you write.

You are misinformed by old school learnings.
Europe is totally different from what you were told.

Silly soul!

 

[Vallicanus]

And you are a stupid ass troll.
Your stupidness shows with everything you write.

You are misinformed by old school learnings.
Europe is totally different from what you were told.

Silly soul!

The Celts were defeated by Romans and by Germanic tribes and except in Brittany or the fringes of the British Isles Celtic language and culture is as dead as the dodo.

You are the troll as you contribute nothing concrete to ANY thread.

 

[Reinaert]

No, the Celts are still very alive and kicking.
This Celt even speaks 4 languages, and about culture..
Pog mo thoine. :biggrin:

 

[Vallicanus]

No, the Celts are still very alive and kicking.
This Celt even speaks 4 languages, and about culture..
Pog mo thoine. :biggrin:

"Pog mo thoine" pretty much sums up modern "Celtic culture".

You are Dutch, so Germanic in speech and culture.

 

[Canek]

The Spanish themselves were shifting from liberators into robbers in a very short time. Greed is always very bad. And also their inhuman behavior against people and animals. The Spanish inquisition, bull fighting.. Fascism.. Sorry, but Spain hasn't a right to be member of the EU!

i agree, they were and are scum..