Who were and are the Serbs and their DNA

Hi Garrick,

You have mentioned in the previous Thread (see 1. 2. And 3.)
I Can conclude from the current and recent studies that your references are OLD or OBSOLETE.

1. E-V13 in the Balkans is between 2000 and 2700 BC, and E carriers came in the Balkans state between 4000 and 4700 year ago.
As you can see (see references below) from recent haplogroups distribution Haplogroup E-V13 (which was already in Balkans) is 10,000 YBP and E1b (which was already in Balkans) is 42,000 YBP. So you are 10th of thousands of years behind.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml

2.You mentioned Haplogroup I is 25,000 YBP (that is Correct), then mentioned "the ancestors of today's I carrier in the Balkans, Bosnians, Serbs and others, were in the Balkans even before 25,000 years" (That is FALCE) because haplogroup I in todays Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia comprises of only 1%-2% (see reference below)
however, haplogroup I2a1 which is 8,000 YBP is comprised by todays Bosnia with over 50%, Croatia 37%, and Serbia 33%
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I_mtDNA.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

3. Then you mentioned "R1a came to the Balkans Thousands of years before E carriers if you read Klyosov" (FALCE AGAIN)
R1a is 23,000 YBP (see reference) and E1b (already in todays Balkans) is 42,000 YBP
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_haplogroups_timeline.shtml

You mentioned that you are a researcher, may i ask what kind of researcher are you?
I believe that real researchers and schoolars/scientists are TRANSPARENT (not one sided) and that they dont come up with several CONCLUSIONS in just one short text
 
Deleted
Demining of Serbs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From the Croats, who came to Dalmatia, one part separated, and occupied Illyria (Illurikon) and Pannonia (Pannonian) De administrando imperio,Konstantin VII. Porfirogenet 10. century






In the book Curse of the nation (2004) Prokletstvo nacija, Serbian scientists Milos Bogdanovic clearly states that in more than half skeleton in the medieval capital of Serbia, is determined gene for blood type B which is Hunnic and Avar origin ..








List of Bosnian army before the battle of Mohács in 1526


in the village Ras southern Serbia or heart of Serbia is mentioned soldiers under the names Anadoli for Turks, Bosna for Muslims or today Bosniaks and Hrvat for today Croatians.. Serbians are not there ....




Serbian historian on Serbian television clearly indicates that the Serbian rebels in the second Serbian rebellion 1815 did not know of the term serbia ....










Genetics clearly shows that carriers so-called Dinaric gene I2a1b1 which today has the Croats, Bosniaks, Montenegrins, Serbs, originates from southern Poland areas of the Vistula River historic center of White Croatians.....


But the Croats at that time lived behind Bagibareje, where they are now Bjelohrvati (Belohrobatoi) White Croatia... They are separated one genus of five brothers, Kloukas, lobelos, Koseniz, Mouh and Hrobatos and two sisters, Touga and Bouga, and came with his people in Dalmatia...
De administrando imperio,Konstantin VII. Porfirogenet 10. century
 
hrvat22 said:
Deleted
Demining of Serbs.
Click to expand...





It was written by Constantine VII. Porphyrogenitus in the 10th century, Byzantine Emperor ... I guess he was not ultranationalist ...... I came to Eupedia show you the truth, and present the only authentic records that consider all historians in Europe and directly regards genetics of the medieval Serbs ...... For this reason i am asking moderator to return my post and allow speech of truth ......greetings from Croatia
 
De Administrando Imperio ("On the management of the Empire") is the Latin name of the Greek work written in the 10th century Eastern Roman emperor Constantine VII.
 
hrvat22 said:
It was written by Constantine VII. Porphyrogenitus in the 10th century, Byzantine Emperor ... I guess he was not ultranationalist ...... I came to Eupedia show you the truth, and present the only authentic records that consider all historians in Europe and directly regards genetics of the medieval Serbs ...... For this reason i am asking moderator to return my post and allow speech of truth ......greetings from Croatia
Click to expand...
It wasn't about Constantine but your interpretation of ancient records with strong only one intentions to attack Serbs. This is not going to fly here.
 
LeBrok said:
It wasn't about Constantine but your interpretation of ancient records with strong only one intentions to attack Serbs. This is not going to fly here.
Click to expand...


Serbs came to Balkan from area of Bohemia/Bavaria... question is where they came from to that area....likely guess is from area north of northwest Carpathians... which fits well with birth place of Slavs around Vistula...

This is not written in any document on the globe and is allowed on this forum ....around Vistula is documented white Croatia....


De administrando imperio, 'white Serbia' borders state of Franks on west and 'white Croatia'

White Serbia does not exist....there is not a single document in the world that mentions white serbia...
 
hrvat22 said:
Serbs came to Balkan from area of Bohemia/Bavaria... question is where they came from to that area....likely guess is from area north of northwest Carpathians... which fits well with birth place of Slavs around Vistula...
Click to expand...
Perhaps so, however autosomal DNA of Serbs points to the fact that most of their genome belongs to Balkan genetic continuity since Neolithic. Slavs came but they didn't replaced locals, they mixed with them extensively.
This is not written in any document on the globe and is allowed on this forum ....around Vistula is documented white Croatia....
Click to expand...
Are you sure it is documented? There are no pre 19th century documents pointing to location of White Croats upper Visual, Krakow area (where some people point to it). The name became popularized by Austro-Hungarians occupation of Krakow area, sort of inventing new nationality, just not to say Polish.
 
LeBrok said:
Perhaps so, however autosomal DNA of Serbs points to the fact that most of their genome belongs to Balkan genetic continuity since Neolithic. Slavs came but they didn't replaced locals, they mixed with them extensively.

[/COLOR] Are you sure it is documented? There are no pre 19th century documents pointing to location of White Croats upper Visual, Krakow area (where some people point to it). The name became popularized by Austro-Hungarians occupation of Krakow area, sort of inventing new nationality, just not to say Polish.
Click to expand...


Wikipedia is full of white Croatia and white Croats ......when are people from Poland enter in the United States a hundred years ago, about 100,000 Poles from the area of Krakow declared themselves as white Croats....in this area and and southwestern Ukraine originates dinaric gene which is in Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins ..... it proves that they are Croatian origin ...


tipe...
White Croats in Ukraine and their archaeological site Stiljsko near the city of Lviv
 
LeBrok said:
Perhaps so, however autosomal DNA of Serbs points to the fact that most of their genome belongs to Balkan genetic continuity since Neolithic. Slavs came but they didn't replaced locals, they mixed with them extensively.

[/COLOR] Are you sure it is documented? There are no pre 19th century documents pointing to location of White Croats upper Visual, Krakow area (where some people point to it). The name became popularized by Austro-Hungarians occupation of Krakow area, sort of inventing new nationality, just not to say Polish.
Click to expand...

I2a1b1 haplotype is very young ... old about two thousand years ago, it was determine by Ken Nordtvedt who specializes in haplogroup I2a....
 
The difference between Serbs and Croats can be summarized as follows.

1) Serbs are primarily descended from people who were already living in the Balkans during the Neolithic, but they speak a dialect of Serbo-Croatian, which is a Slavic language. Many Serbs are members of the Orthodox branch of christianity. Serbs generally have a long-standing dislike and mistrust of Croats.

2) Croats are primarily descended from people who were already living in the Balkans during the Neolithic, but they speak a dialect of Serbo-Croatian, which is a Slavic language. Many Croats are members of the Catholic branch of christianity. Croats generally have a long-standing dislike and mistrust of Serbs.

The most bitter quarrels you will ever see are quarrels between brothers who have become estranged.
 
Aberdeen said:
The difference between Serbs and Croats can be summarized as follows.

1) Serbs are primarily descended from people who were already living in the Balkans during the Neolithic, but they speak a dialect of Serbo-Croatian, which is a Slavic language. Many Serbs are members of the Orthodox branch of christianity. Serbs generally have a long-standing dislike and mistrust of Croats.

2) Croats are primarily descended from people who were already living in the Balkans during the Neolithic, but they speak a dialect of Serbo-Croatian, which is a Slavic language. Many Croats are members of the Catholic branch of christianity. Croats generally have a long-standing dislike and mistrust of Serbs.

The most bitter quarrels you will ever see are quarrels between brothers who have become estranged.
Click to expand...


I2a1b1 haplotype is very young ... old about two thousand years ago, it was determine by Ken Nordtvedt who specializes in haplogroup I2a....:unsure:

source of the same haplotype is in the southern Poland far away from the Balkans and in the Croats and others is about 45 percent...

You probably talking about E1b haplogroup but she was among the Croats only 10 percent
 
hrvat22 said:
I2a1b1 haplotype is very young ... old about two thousand years ago, it was determine by Ken Nordtvedt who specializes in haplogroup I2a....
Click to expand...
Yes it is, but this is Y chromosome and it constitutes only around 2% of total genome. You better check autosomal DNA of Serbs which is remaining 98% of DNA.
 
hrvat22 said:
Wikipedia is full of white Croatia and white Croats ......when are people from Poland enter in the United States a hundred years ago, about 100,000 Poles from the area of Krakow declared themselves as white Croats...
Click to expand...
Of course they were registered as White Croats, because they were arriving to America with Austro-Hungarian papers, which stated that their ethnicity is White Croats. They didn't speak english to explain that they were Polish, and American emigration authority believed official A-H documents. White Croats from around Krakow was just a phenomenon of 19th century and a bit of 20th under A-H Empire.
The explanation, which I subscribe to, is that in some ancient documents one historian said that Moravian kingdom contained population of White Croats. A-H ruled over Moravia before invading Poland. It was for their convenience, when they invaded Poland (actually Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) to declare that this part of Poland is White Croatia. As owners of Moravia by extension they were also owners of White Croatia. Therefore they explained that they didn't invade Poland but only acquired what was theirs (white Croatia) in hereditary terms, as rulers of Moravia they were also rulers of White Croatia. It was just a political game, justification of invasion, and not to feel guilty for the crime.
There is no agreement between modern historians where this White Croatia was placed within Moravian Kingdom. Farthermore, when we analyze pre 19th century documents we can't find any mentioning about White Croatia around Krakow area.

We can honestly blame Austro-Hungarian Empire for creating this mess.

You can check genetic similarities between people around Krakow and Croats to see if populations are genetically similar. If they are then White Croats indeed live around Krakow.

I admit there is a possibility that indeed White Croats started migration from around Krakow or Lvov area, but I don't give it a big chance.


in this area and and southwestern Ukraine originates dinaric gene which is in Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins ..... it proves that they are Croatian origin ...
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but as I said it is only 2% of DNA and not all Croats and Serbs have it. Obviously Slavic language was transferred to all population, but not necessarily all DNA was. We can say that they are culturally Slavic, but genetically mostly ancient Balkans. Soon we will learn exact proportions of pre Slavic Balkans from future genetic research. It is just a matter of time.
 
Aberdeen said:
The difference between Serbs and Croats can be summarized as follows.

1) Serbs are primarily descended from people who were already living in the Balkans during the Neolithic, but they speak a dialect of Serbo-Croatian, which is a Slavic language. Many Serbs are members of the Orthodox branch of christianity. Serbs generally have a long-standing dislike and mistrust of Croats.

2) Croats are primarily descended from people who were already living in the Balkans during the Neolithic, but they speak a dialect of Serbo-Croatian, which is a Slavic language. Many Croats are members of the Catholic branch of christianity. Croats generally have a long-standing dislike and mistrust of Serbs.

The most bitter quarrels you will ever see are quarrels between brothers who have become estranged.
Click to expand...


The difference between Serbs and Croats can be summarized as follows.


according Porphyrogenetus Croatians settled in Dalmatia Illyria and Pannonia ... Serbs do not


according Porphyrogenetus Croats and Serbs were baptized from Rome ... Serbs turned back from Rome Croats does not ....






according Porphyrogenetus Croats coming from a White Croatia and Serbs came from a place near them called bojka ..... Bojke are one of the tribes of the White Croatians .....




Croats have never lost a battle against the Bulgarians Serbs are ....












at the Battle of Nicopolis in 1396, Serbs together with the Turks fought against Croats and Christian armies, the battle was won by the Serbs and forever strengthened Islam in the Balkans
 
Last edited:
hrvat22 said:
Croats have never lost a battle of Bulgarians Serbs are ....
Click to expand...
Of course, how could Croats lose a battle. Aren't you a bit hyper nationalistic again?



at the Battle of Nicopolis in 1396, Serbs together with the Turks fought against Croats and Christian armies, the battle was won by the Serbs and forever strengthened Islam in the Balkans
Click to expand...
And that's why Serbs are Muslim now? Please lets kill each other again in a big World War, because there is no nation in Europe without a guilt of attacking, winning, killing raping, grabbing land, etc. It is an excellent reason to hate other nations till the end of the world.
 
Of course they were registered as White Croats, because they were arriving to America with Austro-Hungarian papers, which stated that their ethnicity is White Croats. They didn't speak english to explain that they were Polish, and American emigration authority believed official A-H documents. White Croats from around Krakow was just a phenomenon of 19th century and a bit of 20th under A-H Empire.

hahahahaah.... Americans even today do not know where is Croatia, much less where is white Croatia .......
 
Of course, how could Croats lose a battle. Aren't you a bit hyper nationalistic again?

Croats have lost a few battles but never from Bulgarians,, Croats have defended Serbs from the Bulgarian ......
 
And that's why Serbs are Muslim now? Please lets kill each other again in a big World War, because there is no nation in Europe without a guilt of attacking, winning, killing raping, grabbing land, etc. It is an excellent reason to hate other nations till the end of the world.


Serbs are not Muslims, but they fought for Islam against Christianity ....



 
hrvat22 said:
Of course they were registered as White Croats, because they were arriving to America with Austro-Hungarian papers, which stated that their ethnicity is White Croats. They didn't speak english to explain that they were Polish, and American emigration authority believed official A-H documents. White Croats from around Krakow was just a phenomenon of 19th century and a bit of 20th under A-H Empire.

hahahahaah.... Americans even today do not know where is Croatia, much less where is white Croatia .......
Click to expand...
Same as most Croats don't know where is Idaho in America.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 298731 times.

Back
Top