Waves of Balkan settlement
Not for Sprinkles who cannot develop discussion in the accepted way, I would like to put some short summarized information about the settlement of the Balkans, which could help for the interpretation of the facts, related to haplogroups. If something is not the facts taken from academic editions, it is indicated as my opinion. I'd like to discuss only scientifically accepted facts or scientifically based suggestions under internationally accepted rules of equity and tolerance.
[FONT="]--- The oldest known tribes in the Balkans are Dacians, Tracians, Albanians and Illyrians. However, it is not clear are they autochthonous or they were newcomers at that period of time. The point is that their languages were Indo-European (IE), and to get these languages (about 4000 years ago), they had to meet IE people. They could meet them somewhere else and populate the Balkans after this, or they could meet them in the Balkan. The latter has any no archeological evidence. Do they brought I2a groups to the Balkans or they met it here and assimilated? For me, the idea that some tribes from other place (Anatolia?) invaded the Balkans and Indo-Europeanized the autochthonous population seems the most adequate. The languages disappeared yet during the time of Roman Empire.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- 2500 years ago - Celtic Invasion. Celts reached the Greece and even Anatolia, but mostly they stayed in the northern, west-northern and eastern parts of the Balkans. They were first who built the City of Belgrade. Celts were one of the founders of the modern country Romania. They probably had mostly R1b haplogroup.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- 4th century AC - Gothic invasion. They had large latifundia there and stayed for a long time. In some places, service in Gothic languages in churches was recorded as late as in 9th century. The Goths could be enriched in R1a groups by the time of invasion, as they previously lived very close to Slavs at the territories of the modern Ukraine and Russia.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- Gepids. They were also German people. They also could have some R1a haplogroups, as Slavs were their neighbors .[/FONT]
[FONT="]These two Germanic groups could be actually responsible for that subclade of I2a, which was found at the territory of Germany and was ascribes to White Serbs.[/FONT]
[FONT="]---5th century - Raids of Huns. Huns are of unknown origin; Chinese, Turkish and Iranian origin was suggested. Who knows which haplogroups they brought?[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- 5-7th Centuries - Avars raids. Again the origin is unknown, probably of mixed origins. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The last two groups were characterized by extreme brutality, especially Avars. Both of them disappeared without leaving defined ethnic groups after them, but they could leave their haplogroups just because they raped Slavic and Balkan women.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- Here we are coming closely to Slavs, since it is believed that Avars brought Slavs with them. It looks that originally Avars forced some Slavic tribes which were on their way from the East to go with them, to populate Pannonia with its fertile lands and to supply Avars with agricultural products. Slavs also suffered a lot from Avar’s brutality. It looks that in the beginning , Slavs were not skilled in war, but later they got this experience and contributed to Avar’s raids. Later, they went to this practice themselves. Surprisingly, they were very skilled seafarer s and invaded into Greek areas from the sea.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Before final colonization of the Balkans, they stayed in Pannonia for 1-1.5 century (#-5 generations). During this time, they could be enriched with I2a haplogroup, because they captivated Balkan people during their raids, the whole families, first forced them to work for them, but later allowed them to live free between them. Slavicization of the Balkans is the fact commonly accepted by the historic science.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 centuries after, a big part of the Balkans has got under the Ottoman Empire rule. This could bring some haplogroups from Turkey into Slav Balkan population. In most parts of Ottoman Europe, the Christian nobility was removed and replaced by a foreign mostly Turkish sometimes Albanian). They had so called [/FONT][FONT="]“Right of the first night” over Slav population. This genetic influence was less in Bosnia and Hercegovina, because there larger numberof people converted to Islam, which protected them from such type of treatment.[/FONT]
[FONT="]A lot of things about that could be read in [/FONT]Wiki. I am not allowed to put here addresses.
[FONT="]So, we can see that the history of the Balkans can explain the variety of haplogroups found there. I believe that based on the modern haplogroups, no final conclusion may be done about the prehistorical haplogroups in this region (actually, not in Europe, in general). If you are interested in more details please let me know.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]It is also a mistake to relate one haplogroup to one nation, whichever this haplogroup is. It could be that in prehistoric time, the tribes had less diversity in haplogroups. But even measurement in 2-5 years old groves in Europe and Asia already show some admixture. Especially now, after all this migrations, all the nations have mixed haplogroups, which reflects their history.[/FONT]
Not for Sprinkles who cannot develop discussion in the accepted way, I would like to put some short summarized information about the settlement of the Balkans, which could help for the interpretation of the facts, related to haplogroups. If something is not the facts taken from academic editions, it is indicated as my opinion. I'd like to discuss only scientifically accepted facts or scientifically based suggestions under internationally accepted rules of equity and tolerance.
[FONT="]--- The oldest known tribes in the Balkans are Dacians, Tracians, Albanians and Illyrians. However, it is not clear are they autochthonous or they were newcomers at that period of time. The point is that their languages were Indo-European (IE), and to get these languages (about 4000 years ago), they had to meet IE people. They could meet them somewhere else and populate the Balkans after this, or they could meet them in the Balkan. The latter has any no archeological evidence. Do they brought I2a groups to the Balkans or they met it here and assimilated? For me, the idea that some tribes from other place (Anatolia?) invaded the Balkans and Indo-Europeanized the autochthonous population seems the most adequate. The languages disappeared yet during the time of Roman Empire.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- 2500 years ago - Celtic Invasion. Celts reached the Greece and even Anatolia, but mostly they stayed in the northern, west-northern and eastern parts of the Balkans. They were first who built the City of Belgrade. Celts were one of the founders of the modern country Romania. They probably had mostly R1b haplogroup.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- 4th century AC - Gothic invasion. They had large latifundia there and stayed for a long time. In some places, service in Gothic languages in churches was recorded as late as in 9th century. The Goths could be enriched in R1a groups by the time of invasion, as they previously lived very close to Slavs at the territories of the modern Ukraine and Russia.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- Gepids. They were also German people. They also could have some R1a haplogroups, as Slavs were their neighbors .[/FONT]
[FONT="]These two Germanic groups could be actually responsible for that subclade of I2a, which was found at the territory of Germany and was ascribes to White Serbs.[/FONT]
[FONT="]---5th century - Raids of Huns. Huns are of unknown origin; Chinese, Turkish and Iranian origin was suggested. Who knows which haplogroups they brought?[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- 5-7th Centuries - Avars raids. Again the origin is unknown, probably of mixed origins. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The last two groups were characterized by extreme brutality, especially Avars. Both of them disappeared without leaving defined ethnic groups after them, but they could leave their haplogroups just because they raped Slavic and Balkan women.[/FONT]
[FONT="]--- Here we are coming closely to Slavs, since it is believed that Avars brought Slavs with them. It looks that originally Avars forced some Slavic tribes which were on their way from the East to go with them, to populate Pannonia with its fertile lands and to supply Avars with agricultural products. Slavs also suffered a lot from Avar’s brutality. It looks that in the beginning , Slavs were not skilled in war, but later they got this experience and contributed to Avar’s raids. Later, they went to this practice themselves. Surprisingly, they were very skilled seafarer s and invaded into Greek areas from the sea.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Before final colonization of the Balkans, they stayed in Pannonia for 1-1.5 century (#-5 generations). During this time, they could be enriched with I2a haplogroup, because they captivated Balkan people during their raids, the whole families, first forced them to work for them, but later allowed them to live free between them. Slavicization of the Balkans is the fact commonly accepted by the historic science.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 centuries after, a big part of the Balkans has got under the Ottoman Empire rule. This could bring some haplogroups from Turkey into Slav Balkan population. In most parts of Ottoman Europe, the Christian nobility was removed and replaced by a foreign mostly Turkish sometimes Albanian). They had so called [/FONT][FONT="]“Right of the first night” over Slav population. This genetic influence was less in Bosnia and Hercegovina, because there larger numberof people converted to Islam, which protected them from such type of treatment.[/FONT]
[FONT="]A lot of things about that could be read in [/FONT]Wiki. I am not allowed to put here addresses.
[FONT="]So, we can see that the history of the Balkans can explain the variety of haplogroups found there. I believe that based on the modern haplogroups, no final conclusion may be done about the prehistorical haplogroups in this region (actually, not in Europe, in general). If you are interested in more details please let me know.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]It is also a mistake to relate one haplogroup to one nation, whichever this haplogroup is. It could be that in prehistoric time, the tribes had less diversity in haplogroups. But even measurement in 2-5 years old groves in Europe and Asia already show some admixture. Especially now, after all this migrations, all the nations have mixed haplogroups, which reflects their history.[/FONT]