With what ancient ethnicity do you most identify, and what has DNA told you ?

[sparkey]

At 4000 BC. I know it was not nearly as bad as the LGM, but I was under the impression that one could still speak of the Ice Age in Europe at the time.

Well, the Orkneys had permanent settlements by 3500 BC, so I don't think that the glaciation was so severe in 4000 BC that we can't talk about descent from Northern Britons of the time. Northern Scandinavia, of course, is a different story.

But yes, they came in the 19th century directly from Cornwall. My Rowes, specifically, settled in Illinois (from whence my father comes). THey seemed to have quit mining pretty early on in Illinois, though, as my father's father was a brick layer who died from inhalation of brick dust. I think my great grandfather on my father's line still was a miner, though. I cannot be sure.

But yep, a Cousin Jack here.

That's the Cousin Jack migration, no doubt... from Cornwall to the Upper Mississippi in the 1800s due to the decline in the mining economy back in Cornwall. My 3 Cornish families migrated like:

Family 1: From St Agnes to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 2: From Constantine & the Lizard peninsula to Jo Daviess County, IL, then to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 3: From Landulph to Jo Daviess County, IL, and on to Franklin County, IA

Only Family 1 were miners in my case, although Family 3, who were farmers by background, also tried their luck in the gold fields of California for a bit (unsuccessfully). The mining decline in Cornwall affected everyone living there.

 

[JFWR]

I hate horses. But I like fast cars and driving long distances with very high speed. But I think that's because I'm just young, wild and crazy.

Astyages was the last Median (Median Empire) king of Umman-Manda folks.

You can't shoot a bow from a car. You're betraying your ancestors... (I kid, I kid).

 

[JFWR]

Well, the Orkneys had permanent settlements by 3500 BC, so I don't think that the glaciation was so severe in 4000 BC that we can't talk about descent from Northern Britons of the time. Northern Scandinavia, of course, is a different story.

That's very true. 4000 BC is a bit late to be speaking of massive ice sheets still close to NW Europe. That might have a lot to do with currents and weather systems, too.

That's the Cousin Jack migration, no doubt... from Cornwall to the Upper Mississippi in the 1800s due to the decline in the mining economy back in Cornwall. My 3 Cornish families migrated like:

Family 1: From St Agnes to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 2: From Constantine & the Lizard peninsula to Jo Daviess County, IL, then to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 3: From Landulph to Jo Daviess County, IL, and on to Franklin County, IA

My family specifically went to Ottawa, Illinois (which is in LaSalle). So almost neighbours (well, not so much, but still) for your third branch.

It's great that we come from similar backgrounds. Not too many folks I know share this! Thanks for all your information on this, too. It's a fascinating story.

Only Family 1 were miners in my case, although Family 3, who were farmers by background, also tried their luck in the gold fields of California for a bit (unsuccessfully). The mining decline in Cornwall affected everyone living there.

Mining is a really tough job. As soon ast he mine becomes unprofitable, jobs just...fall apart. No wonder they left their homes behind.

It's a rough, rough time being a miner. Even today.

 

[LeBrok]

Actually 4000BC falls into Holocene Maximum. It means it was warmest interglacial times, also warmer than today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

 

[dg13]

Hello to all. I am able to trace my ancestry back through my mother to Edward III of England. (George Washington is my cousin, believe it or not). My father's family was 100% German! ...Or, so I thought. I now find the I am J1c* (and possibly part of a new J1c4). I am still German but how did my ancestors get there? I trace them back to 1614 in Baden, Germany. My mtDNA is T. Being new to this any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[JFWR]

Actually 4000BC falls into Holocene Maximum. It means it was warmest interglacial times, also warmer than today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

Wow. I was not aware of that. I knew of the Medieval Warm period, but not this.

Thanks.

 

[JFWR]

Hello to all. I am able to trace my ancestry back through my mother to Edward III of England. (George Washington is my cousin, believe it or not). My father's family was 100% German! ...Or, so I thought. I now find the I am J1c* (and possibly part of a new J1c4). I am still German but how did my ancestors get there? I trace them back to 1614 in Baden, Germany. My mtDNA is T. Being new to this any thoughts would be appreciated.

It means you have ancestors that were Arabs or East Africans possibly. I have no idea how they ended up in Germany.

 

[sparkey]

It's great that we come from similar backgrounds. Not too many folks I know share this!

True, there are only a couple of places in the US (Mineral Point, WI and Grass Valley, CA) that have their primary cultural influence from the 1800s Cornish migrations.

Thanks to Julius Vogel, though, the same Cornish migrations had a tremendous impact on New Zealand. The common popularity of rugby in Cornwall and New Zealand probably isn't a coincidence.

 

[JFWR]

True, there are only a couple of places in the US (Mineral Point, WI and Grass Valley, CA) that have their primary cultural influence from the 1800s Cornish migrations.

Thanks to Julius Vogel, though, the same Cornish migrations had a tremendous impact on New Zealand. The common popularity of rugby in Cornwall and New Zealand probably isn't a coincidence.

I'll have to talk to my kiwi friends and ask them if they know any people with Cornish ancestry, then.

 

[Kosta]

Hi, everyone. I'm new here—I just registered not even a minute ago.

I myself identify most with the R(h)omanians of the Eastern Roman, "Byzantine" Empire. I'm half Greek and to break it down further, I'm a quarter Euboean and a quarter Peloponnesian. Personally, I'd love to go so far as to call myself "Ρωμαίος," but my people would laugh at me. I'm also 3/8th's Irish-Scots (Irish immigrants to Scotland, not to be confused with the Scotch-Irish) and 1/8th Bohemian. While my plastic-paddy Father (God love him) goes on about Sinn Fein and the IRA, I myself embrace my Ulsterite and British heritage. I currently reside in the United States (and always have), but am on my way to dual citizenship with Greece (money is tight for me right now and citizenship costs $1200) and getting both British and Irish citizenship

Now, the reason I joined here was because I'd like to ask for some help. Unfortunately, nearly all of my family has either lost all documentation or has eschewed it in favour of assimilation. I only have a slightest idea of my Euboean family's roots because my family didn't leave Greece all that long ago, and my Mother kept everything my Grandmother brought over. But the rest, well, all my paternal Grandmother can say is that "we're from a town just outside Belfast" but the family eventually settled in Paisley and Johnstone and that her father was in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. I'd like to have a DNA test done since I'm absolutely dying to be able to look upon my family tree with pride. A friend of mine just got his results back from Ancestry.com's autosomal test, but it didn't seem very helpful—it only said "you're 88% British Islander, 7% Finno-Ugric, and 5% undetermined." If they were to tell me "You're 50% Aegean Islander, 37.5% British Islander, and 12.5% Central European," they might as well have told me "congrats, mate, you're White." I could be descended from Venetians, Albanians, Norse raiders, Norman settlers, or Sudetenland Germans, and I'd never know! So this brings me to another, incredibly wise friend's advice. I need to find and take a mitochondrial DNA test and a Y-chromosomal test (the latter with as many STR markers involved as possible to get a more precise result) to find out my maternal and paternal lineages. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I could find said tests?

 

[JFWR]

Hi, everyone. I'm new here—I just registered not even a minute ago.

I myself identify most with the R(h)omanians of the Eastern Roman, "Byzantine" Empire. I'm half Greek and to break it down further, I'm a quarter Euboean and a quarter Peloponnesian. Personally, I'd love to go so far as to call myself "Ρωμαίος," but my people would laugh at me. I'm also 3/8th's Irish-Scots (Irish immigrants to Scotland, not to be confused with the Scotch-Irish) and 1/8th Bohemian. While my plastic-paddy Father (God love him) goes on about Sinn Fein and the IRA, I myself embrace my Ulsterite and British heritage. I currently reside in the United States (and always have), but am on my way to dual citizenship with Greece (money is tight for me right now and citizenship costs $1200) and getting both British and Irish citizenship

Now, the reason I joined here was because I'd like to ask for some help. Unfortunately, nearly all of my family has either lost all documentation or has eschewed it in favour of assimilation. I only have a slightest idea of my Euboean family's roots because my family didn't leave Greece all that long ago, and my Mother kept everything my Grandmother brought over. But the rest, well, all my paternal Grandmother can say is that "we're from a town just outside Belfast" but the family eventually settled in Paisley and Johnstone and that her father was in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. I'd like to have a DNA test done since I'm absolutely dying to be able to look upon my family tree with pride. A friend of mine just got his results back from Ancestry.com's autosomal test, but it didn't seem very helpful—it only said "you're 88% British Islander, 7% Finno-Ugric, and 5% undetermined." If they were to tell me "You're 50% Aegean Islander, 37.5% British Islander, and 12.5% Central European," they might as well have told me "congrats, mate, you're White." I could be descended from Venetians, Albanians, Norse raiders, Norman settlers, or Sudetenland Germans, and I'd never know! So this brings me to another, incredibly wise friend's advice. I need to find and take a mitochondrial DNA test and a Y-chromosomal test (the latter with as many STR markers involved as possible to get a more precise result) to find out my maternal and paternal lineages. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I could find said tests?

www.ftdna.com

You won't know for sure where you come from these tests, though. Genetic tests do not match very well with individual populations. You will get a broad, historically basis for your ancestry, though.

Take, for instance, my Y-DNA haplogroup: i2a2a. I know that my ancestors have been here in Europe for 30,000 years on my father's side, and that it is probable that my Y-DNA is associated with Germanic cultural movements in general. But if I did not know my personal history, I'd not know anything about my actual ancestry in terms of my family's actual migratory journeys.

Also, it wouldn't be Romanian, it would be Roman.

 

[Kosta]

You won't know for sure where you come from these tests, though. Genetic tests do not match very well with individual populations. You will get a broad, historically basis for your ancestry, though.

Take, for instance, my Y-DNA haplogroup: i2a2a. I know that my ancestors have been here in Europe for 30,000 years on my father's side, and that it is probable that my Y-DNA is associated with Germanic cultural movements in general. But if I did not know my personal history, I'd not know anything about my actual ancestry in terms of my family's actual migratory journeys.

Also, it wouldn't be Romanian, it would be Roman.

Well, thank you. I definitely will be looking into it.

Medieval Greek used the word Ῥωμανία" to refer to the Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων/Imperium Romanum), so you'll see Rhomanian and Roman used to refer to denizens of the Empire. I suppose the superfluous "h" is thrown in to not confuse the people of the Byzantine Empire to the pre-Theodosian-division Roman Empire.

 

[Yetos]

Well, thank you. I definitely will be looking into it.

Medieval Greek used the word Ῥωμανία" to refer to the Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων/Imperium Romanum), so you'll see Rhomanian and Roman used to refer to denizens of the Empire. I suppose the superfluous "h" is thrown in to not confuse the people of the Byzantine Empire to the pre-Theodosian-division Roman Empire.

That is correct, but happened to provide some Imperium targets

1 ) was peace inside so all were Romans no matter the language
until very late emperrors use titles in Latin and at late times used Greek cause late Byzantine was based mainly in areas were Greek population existed
Epirus Thrace Peloponese Pontus Smyrna Crimea etc

2 ) the target of one religion,
that target made all Greeks as persona non grata, Byzantine set camp of extermination of older religions mainly Greek polytheism,
so Greeks divided in 2 the ρωμιοι (romans) and the pagan Greek,
if you read church books especially Basileios the Great he's anti-Greek mania is big against every Greek culture, from philosophy to letters, to architecture, that is why Byzantine could not developed
the word Ελληνες was just like say I am jew to Nazi at WW2,

so Greeks change name to ρωμιοι Romioi cause that term satisfy both the above,
if you said Romios then you declare faith to Empire and acceptance to the clerics of christianity, no matter what your inner religion was.
that continued also in Ottoman empire were Turks recogn the non Muslim Greek population as Rum while name different other minorities like Armenians Arabs etc and the ones who allied Venetians and Genovese as Yunan.
the termination γραικος is an ancient termination that travel to Italy at Con/polis fall and return at 1780 and after, mainly through Eptanese and south Italy were rebels were hidden (the return from Italy Spain France and rest of Europe.


The termination Ρωμιος mainly describes 3 certain areas mainly Romylia (thrace) Rumeli (central Greece) Rumlar (Pontic mountains)

 

[NickP]

I think people sometimes have a tendency of associating and attaching themselves too much to these ancient tribes, as if that's all that matters in people today. They tend to be especially those around the Classical era (hence some are almost semi-legendary), but Europe is a different place in a way today, as populations have moved a good bit, and others have entered and made their contributions. Plus, one shouldn't forget the older Neolithic and Paleolithic peoples as well.

I find some places like igenea to be kind of silly in attaching the name of some ancient tribe to a particular haplogroup or people, but it's what attracts people to the services because I guess they like hearing that they came from "Vikings" or "Celts" or "Romans" or "Illyrians" and so on. In addition to many of those tests being very incomplete in terms of sample size and representative populations, they also tend to generalize and over-simplify things a bit too much.

When it comes to these ancient ethnicities, you have to keep in mind that they themselves were probably still an amalgam of other peoples and types, and not just a single unified homogenous group (though not as heterogenous as people today probably).

 

[JFWR]

Well, thank you. I definitely will be looking into it.

Medieval Greek used the word Ῥωμανία" to refer to the Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων/Imperium Romanum), so you'll see Rhomanian and Roman used to refer to denizens of the Empire. I suppose the superfluous "h" is thrown in to not confuse the people of the Byzantine Empire to the pre-Theodosian-division Roman Empire.

Gotcha. I was thinking you were confusing the fact that the Romanian people use a romance language.

 

[LeBrok]

I think people sometimes have a tendency of associating and attaching themselves too much to these ancient tribes, as if that's all that matters in people today. They tend to be especially those around the Classical era (hence some are almost semi-legendary), but Europe is a different place in a way today, as populations have moved a good bit, and others have entered and made their contributions. Plus, one shouldn't forget the older Neolithic and Paleolithic peoples as well.

I find some places like igenea to be kind of silly in attaching the name of some ancient tribe to a particular haplogroup or people, but it's what attracts people to the services because I guess they like hearing that they came from "Vikings" or "Celts" or "Romans" or "Illyrians" and so on. In addition to many of those tests being very incomplete in terms of sample size and representative populations, they also tend to generalize and over-simplify things a bit too much.

When it comes to these ancient ethnicities, you have to keep in mind that they themselves were probably still an amalgam of other peoples and types, and not just a single unified homogenous group (though not as heterogenous as people today probably).

Looks like people are too romantic to see the reality.

 

[Kosta]

Gotcha. I was thinking you were confusing the fact that the Romanian people use a romance language.

That's another reason we have to throw that weird "h" into the word when we're discussing demonyms of the Eastern Roman Empire, and a reason I can't be some kind of ethnic-hipster and call myself a proud Romanian, or else I might here "Eh, ai vorbesc limba română!?" all the time!

 

[JFWR]

That's another reason we have to throw that weird "h" into the word when we're discussing demonyms of the Eastern Roman Empire, and a reason I can't be some kind of ethnic-hipster and call myself a proud Romanian, or else I might here "Eh, ai vorbesc limba română!?" all the time!

I don't think most people would speak to you in Romanian. So "all the time" would be a bit much.

But yes. Thanks for informing me about that.

 

[MarkyMark]

Greco-Romans, Phoenecians, and Mesopotamians

 

[sparkey]

Greco-Romans, Phoenecians, and Mesopotamians

Any chance you're part Assyrian, part Lebanese? This sounds a bit like my mother-in-law's mixture.

EDIT: Just saw that you answered that elsewhere. Cool!