Fire Haired14
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Population | Yamnaya_Samara | Loschbour | Sweden_MN | D statistic |
Czech | 51 | 4 | 45 | 0.0097 |
Belarusian | 55 | 13 | 32 | 0.0172 |
Lithuanian | 56 | 21 | 23 | 0.0177 |
Norwegian | 49 | 7 | 44 | 0.0082 |
Andronovo | 73 | 3 | 24 | 0.0105 |
Population | Cypriot | Hungary_CA | Mozabite | Yamnaya_Samara | D statistic |
Italian_Bergamo | 10 | 66 | 0 | 24 | 0.0148 |
Italian_EastSicilian | 48 | 37 | 2 | 13 | 0.0096 |
Italian_Tuscan | 30 | 48 | 0 | 22 | 0.0109 |
Italian_WestSicilian | 46 | 37 | 2 | 15 | 0.0098 |
Population | Cypriot | Iberia_Chalcolithic | Mozabite | Yamnaya_Samara | D statistic |
Spanish_Andalucia | 22 | 51 | 3 | 24 | 0.0081 |
Spanish_Aragon | 13 | 60 | 1 | 26 | 0.0079 |
Spanish_Baleares | 20 | 50 | 1 | 29 | 0.0094 |
Spanish_Cantabria | 12 | 58 | 1 | 29 | 0.0079 |
Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha | 20 | 55 | 0 | 25 | 0.009 |
Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon | 15 | 51 | 7 | 27 | 0.0091 |
Spanish_Cataluna | 15 | 52 | 3 | 30 | 0.0103 |
Spanish_Extremadura | 18 | 48 | 6 | 28 | 0.0102 |
Spanish_Galicia | 18 | 49 | 5 | 28 | 0.0081 |
Spanish_Murcia | 19 | 52 | 3 | 26 | 0.0078 |
Spanish_Pais_Vasco | 0 | 70 | 0 | 30 | 0.0117 |
Spanish_Valencia | 17 | 55 | 1 | 27 | 0.0086 |
Spanish_Pais_Vasco 0 70 0 30 0.0117
I'm not even sure that it's accurate for northern Europeans. The Yamnaya percentage might be inflated by high WHG/EHG genes that were absorbed as the actual Yamnaya type people moved across Europe.
It's also too high for Spaniards, and for the same reason.
Also, this doesn't tell us anything about the gene flows that formed the Spanish and the Italians; there was no migration of "Cypriots" into those countries at the kind of levels which would be required to get these kinds of admixture results.
I'm not even sure that it's accurate for northern Europeans. The Yamnaya percentage might be inflated by high WHG/EHG genes that were absorbed as the actual Yamnaya type people moved across Europe.
David Wesolski at Eurogenes, has created a global PCA with 50 dimensions. Normal PCAs only have 2 dimensions. His PCA has so many dimensions it is impossible for our eyes to comprehend it. He posted the locations of all the global samples in all 50 dimensions, to use to produce admixture results.
I've been playing around with Europe, and the results are 100% consistent with everything we've seen before.
Here are some results.
Population Yamnaya_Samara Loschbour Sweden_MN D statistic Czech 51 4 45 0.0097 Belarusian 55 13 32 0.0172 Lithuanian 56 21 23 0.0177 Norwegian 49 7 44 0.0082 Andronovo 73 3 24 0.0105
(...)
Yamnaya admixture wasn't already studied in a peer review paper as Haak (2015)?
Yamnaya admixture wasn't already studied in a peer review paper as Haak (2015)?
The source? A link?
It's also too high for Spaniards, and for the same reason.
Also, this doesn't tell us anything about the gene flows that formed the Spanish and the Italians; there was no migration of "Cypriots" into those countries at the kind of levels which would be required to get these kinds of admixture results.
I'm not even sure that it's accurate for northern Europeans. The Yamnaya percentage might be inflated by high WHG/EHG genes that were absorbed as the actual Yamnaya type people moved across Europe.
Indeed, and by a more sophisticated method than a simple Admixture run.
We estimate mixture proportions using a method thatgives unbiased estimates even without an accurate model for the relationships between the
test populations and the outgroup populations (SI9).
@Everyone,
There's no doubt Steppe admixture is significant for Spain and Italy. 20-30% from the Pontic-Caspein Steppe, not Ukraine where they had EEF admixture, is reasonable. When you model Spain and Italy, as Steppe+WHG+EEF, you still get 20-30% Steppe, but a bad fit(because they need Cypriot or something similar).
Anatolia_Neolithic | Yamnaya_Samara | Loschbour | Cypriot | @ D | Cycles | |
Italian_Tuscan | 42.6 | 25.5 | 6.4 | 25.5 | 0.007143 | 100 |
Scottish_Argyll | 28.85 | 39.6 | 21.75 | 9.8 | 0.009478 | 100 |
Iberia | Iberia_Chalcolithic | Bell_Beaker_Germany | Cypriot | @ D |
Spanish_Aragon | 39.6 | 45.9 | 14.9 | 0.006734 |
Basque_Spanish | 61.8 | 38.2 | 0 | 0.018822 |
Italy | Iceman_MN | Bell_Beaker_Germany | Cypriot | @ D |
Italian_Bergamo | 29.45 | 48.6 | 21.95 | 0.008345 |
Italian_Tuscan | 16 | 42.25 | 41.75 | 0.007458 |
Italian_WestSicilian | 12.7 | 29.75 | 57.55 | 0.010929 |
Anatolia_Neolithic | Yamnaya_Samara | Loschbour | @ D | Cycles | |
Scottish_Argyll | 36.1 | 44.25 | 19.65 | 0.009592 | 100 |
Italian_Tuscan | 61.45 | 37.55 | 1 | 0.008183 | 100 |
Hungary_BA | 41.4 | 32.9 | 25.7 | 0.013439 | 100 |
I don't doubt that there is steppe admixture in southern Europe. Just results from yDna indicate that this is the case, and, as has been pointed out, it was found through the extensive modeling presented in Haak et al.
What I'm questioning is the amount, which seems about right for certain groups and pretty off for others (I highly doubt that the Basques are 70% Yamnaya related). I'm also questioning modeling groups using a mixture of ancient and modern genomes.
In this particular case, Cypriots have their own particular population history and admixture. Throwing them into the mix may be altering the other percentages in ways we can't really predict.
Why not just wait for aDna? It won't be long.
Oh, and last I heard there are problems with the use and interpretation of Dstats, and we have that from the people who know the most about them, like Patterson. All these methods have their limitations. We have to try to take into account the results from all of the tools at our disposal, not constantly proclaim that this is the definitive tool and these are the only correct conclusions.
Basque came out 30% Yamnaya. BTW, what makes Basque unique in these tests(D-stats, ADMIXTURE, PCA) is they lack the Near Eastern-signal other Iberians and French have. They have as much Steppe admixture.
In D-stats, Cypriots unique history isn't expressed. This is because there are no Near Eastern-outgroups. Cypriots relationship to non-West Eurasian outgroups, European HGs, and CHG, is basically the same as Anatolia_Neolithic. The only difference is Cypriot isn't as close to EEF outgroups as Anatolia_Neolithic is. So, Cypriot is like EEF but not EEF.
Using simple math, you can suck out a zombie ancestor out of test populations. So, for Georgians and Mozabite I did this. Georgian's non-CHG side in D-stats, behaves similar to Cypriot. Mozabite's non-African side, behaves similar to Cypriot. So, Cypriot in D-stats with the outgroups used, is like a pure Near Eastern. They're not EEF or CHG, and they don't appear to have exotic admixture(African, East Asian, South Asian, Steppe). That's why I use them as a Near Eastern ancestor proxy for South Europe.
In other methods, Lebanese or Turkish work better than Cypriot for South Europe. In D-stats however Cypriots work better.
I'm impatient. It's been a year since any big ancient DNA paper was published. I've used D-stats, PCA, and ADMIXTURE(not just ANE K8, but also old ones based on moderns), and have gotten the same results.
Here are better results. I used the nMonte system instead of 4mix. nMonte, breaks down percentages to decimals.
I don't doubt that there is steppe admixture in southern Europe. Just results from yDna indicate that this is the case, and, as has been pointed out, it was found through the extensive modeling presented in Haak et al.
What I'm questioning is the amount, which seems about right for certain groups and pretty off for others (I highly doubt that the Basques are 70% Yamnaya related). I'm also questioning modeling groups using a mixture of ancient and modern genomes. In this particular case, Cypriots have their own particular population history and admixture. Throwing them into the mix may be altering the other percentages in ways we can't really predict.
Why not just wait for aDna? It won't be long.
Oh, and last I heard there are problems with the use and interpretation of Dstats, and we have that from the people who know the most about them, like Patterson. All these methods have their limitations. We have to try to take into account the results from all of the tools at our disposal, not constantly proclaim that this is the definitive tool and these are the only correct conclusions.
I agree. All these methods give us, internally, some respective weights of "componants" between populations, not absolute %s, these last ones varying in every run.. And as you I dont like too much thses groupings of different ages reference populations.
The results, taken with caution, can tell something about global ancient affinities but very little about History of populations moves (who. when?).
Iceman_MN | Yamnaya_Samara | Adygei | Cypriot | Mozabite | BedouinB | Druze | @ D | |
Bergamo | 60.85 | 27.4 | 5.45 | 4 | 2.3 | 0 | 0 | 0.011837 |
Tuscan | 42.9 | 25.7 | 0 | 30.3 | 0.3 | 0.15 | 0.65 | 0.009941 |
Sweden_MN | Yamnaya_Samara | Chechen | Mozabite | BedouinB | @ D | |
Norway | 47.1 | 52.15 | 0.3 | 0.25 | 0.2 | 0.011449 |
Iberia_Chalcolithic | Yamnaya_Samara | Adygei | Cypriot | Mozabite | Chechen | Druze | @ D | |
Cantabria | 59.05 | 28.1 | 2.55 | 8.25 | 1.25 | 0.15 | 0.65 | 0.007823 |
Anatolia_Neolithic | Yamnaya_Samara | Adygei | Cypriot | Druze | Abkhasian | Armenian | Druze | Georgian | Kotias | Lebanese | Palestinian | ||
Greek | 52.7 | 36.35 | 2.75 | 7.65 | 0.55 | 0 | 0 | 0.55 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.007823 |
Turkish | 25.2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 13.25 | 4.5 | 8.3 | 27.1 | 16.85 | 1.15 | 3.65 | 0.01017 |
Look at these results. This is a totally unbiased approach, to find what changed in Spain, Italy, Greece, Norway, and Turkey after 3000 BC. I used people who lived in their regions in 3000 BC, other Europeans from 3000 BC(Yamnaya), and all modern non-Europeans as possible ancestors. For Italy and Spain, I only used moderns from the same regions as the 3000 BC genomes are from.
Iceman_MN Yamnaya_Samara Adygei Cypriot Mozabite BedouinB Druze @ D Bergamo 60.85 27.4 5.45 4 2.3 0 0 0.011837 Tuscan 42.9 25.7 0 30.3 0.3 0.15 0.65 0.009941
Norway.
Sweden_MN Yamnaya_Samara Chechen Mozabite BedouinB @ D Norway 47.1 52.15 0.3 0.25 0.2 0.011449
Spain.
Iberia_Chalcolithic Yamnaya_Samara Adygei Cypriot Mozabite Chechen Druze @ D Cantabria 59.05 28.1 2.55 8.25 1.25 0.15 0.65 0.007823
Greece.
Anatolia_Neolithic Yamnaya_Samara Adygei Cypriot Druze Abkhasian Armenian Druze Georgian Kotias Lebanese Palestinian Greek 52.7 36.35 2.75 7.65 0.55 0 0 0.55 0 0 0 0 0.007823 Turkish 25.2 0 0 0 0 13.25 4.5 8.3 27.1 16.85 1.15 3.65 0.01017
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