iapetoc
Junior Member
Well where the hell is the Slavic R1a then? It seems to me that you don't understand the problem.
If it is Thracian than it cannot be Hellenic.
not exactly,
many times I try to connect Thracians with I2a2, But i was wrong, and I ahve to admit that,
Macciamo and Julia told me hat ancient Thracian Y-Dna qas R1a,
the R1a of Greek Macedonia also can be found in Magna Grecia, an area that is not Slavic at all,
if you look the maps of How Yes No you will see that enough R1a pre-slavic also exist in Magna Grecia in area of Sarento,
ancient Thracians had R1a surely,
ancient Thracians are consider Pre-Slavic by some, or Daci for others or even Goths to an extra possibility,
Greeks pushed Pieri-Thracians to east while Vrygians moved to minor asia, and the space occupied by Greeks,
the case of Pieri - Vrygians - Paiones is strange as also the Getae and the Triballi and Odryssee,
seems like Thracians were 3 mainly or Sub Nations,
you can read about in a thread,
Now R1a today is cinsidered
1) Germanic
2) Balto-slavic
3) Turkish by some especially in Turkey,
but an ancient R1a existed in Balkans,
a possibility that a R1b passed and moved West is Certain, but mostly today R1b in Greece is Romano-Celtic.
the Case of G2a3 in Greece is know from Pelasgians,
Pelasgians split to many and one of them is Thyrrenians,
Etruscan Y-Dna is found mostly G2a
J1 and J2 is considered Greek (some DYS of them) but J2 language was not IE but Pelasgian-Thyrrenian
so who gave IE language to greeks,
E-V13 came to balkans at 2000 BC estimated by some searchers
a possibility that Myceneans were R1b from minor asia that enter Greece is A) change
the possibility of Myceneans were R1a from steppes or Minor Asia (Hettit) is B) chance
The Driopes being R1a is a most possible chance
the rest are not consider IE by what we know today.
the case of R1a in South Italy - Magna Grecia gives connection among Greeks and R1a,
ancient Greeks had R1a among others,
the case of Agrinio an area that was not invaded that much, almost isolated,
that has enough I2 while Agrinion King Agrios had son the Paeon (Paeonnians- area of Skopje) as also the names of Paeonian Kings and Tribes (Agrianes = sons of Agrios)
also the Vrygian remained words and their connection with Ancient Makedonians,
seems like Thracians were 4 groups, the Greco-Thracians like Vrygians Pieri and Paeoni,
the Daci-Getae Thracians, the Illyro-Thracians, The central Thracians (Odrysse-Triballi-etc)
Linguistic of Homer seems like the IE of Greek is mostly towards English and Slavic
while is far from Latin,
Pelasgian elements are included also, but mostly in later Hesiodus,
so Pelasgians existed in Homers time, But mostly unite with Greeks after Troy and Sea peoples,
Pelasgians is the other part that existed in Balkans, Mostly in Greece, Albania, and South and East Thrace,
Pelasgians dwell lake Lychnitis today Ochrid before the arrive of Makedonians and King Karamos.
the 3rd ancient is Celts, mostly lived west of Dinaric Alps
now about modern case of Makedonia, Fyrom,
Yes you are right,
In 1900 lived more Slavic people in Greek Makedonia, and more Greeks in Fyrom
also in Bulgaria lived more Greeks, and Serbia,
After WW1
Greeks of Serbia either left, either change their names to -ic and became Serbs.
same happened with Serbs of Greek Makedonia.
Greeks of Bulgaria mostly exchanged with Bulgarians from Greece.
since I am from a village that is connected from Ancient times with Argeiad Dynasty. don't tell me about Makedonia, and ansk Butaris. I live here with my Family before 1000 of Years,
Before 1900 there were only Vlachs(Aromani), Greeks, Serbs, and Bugari (watch:Bugari not Bulgarians), Roma and Turks (Turks are considered both Turk-albans and Ottomans Arnaut and Turks)
After that
Greece did not wanted to expand in Skopje cause that area was never Greek, in anciety was Paeonia,
now about minority of Slavic Speaking people in Greece mostly change with Bulgaria,
while Serbs moved to Skopje.
At that time we Have Bardarska,
later after WW2 Greek communist decide to Become Fyromians and MAC-Donaldians,
Butaris major of Thessaloniki is an Aromani-Vlach that wants to be progressive and support Fyrom Issue cause he was an ex-Communist.
besides Butaris support Free Porn under 18 years old, support Gay mariage in Church, and is well known for his Alcoolism,
He is the only major that was in TV Drunken for 5 Minutes saying nothing, just looking, Got Drunken to the limit,
Butaris spend millions to became major, for more than 20 years now.
the case of Fyrom, that Unites Greeks Serbs Albanians and Bulgarians, is just out of Discuss,
A paper treaty is in power only if All accept it,
The Turks manage to create a diplomacy problem in Balkans,
while Mother Russia pushed Pan-slavism,
now about who must have the name of Makedonia,
For Greeks the connection is with Blood, from anciety,
is connection with Linguistic, and Koine-Hellenistic,
is connection with History and memmories of a Nations,
For you is just geographical term that must give to your unification movement a name,
well since some of you Lived in Original Makedonia and not Paeonia or Bardaska after Serbian Dusan, or Bulgarian Cymeon and Samuel invations in Makedonia,
and since Romans name Skopje Makedonia, well
Greek Gave you the opportunity, to live in peace both countries, by accepting the word Slavic infront, or Bardarian (Slavic Makedonia, Bardarian Makedonia)
But no, your Patrons suggest you to claim Alexander, to claim that Alexander spoke Slavic, although archaiology proves opposite, and to claim Lands,
you are the only ones in Planet That say that Modern Greeks of Macedonia are Slavic, Speak Slavic etc, while even Turkish Census prove that Greeks were majority after Turk citizens in Greek Makedonia,
you have your own land, stop Bullshit before Greece start Demanding Lands from Fyrom of Greek Minority, (pappers still exist) and starts to discuss rights of Albanian and Bulgarian minority,
we are Here 000 of years before Dusan or Cymeon
and we don't know for how long we will be,
Now about the photo of Germanos Karavaggelis, I have more to show you, with Fyromians next to Nazi-Germans, or Bulgarians burning Villages in Makedonia,
as also about Sandasky the Famous Bulgarian criminal that killed 75 Greeks under Turkish command,
there are many photos of Sandasky and Bulgarians with Turks also,
we never wanted your lands or your culture,
you invade from Dusan times and today you claim the lands,
well we will not give you them with out a fight, cause we were here before Dusan.
Stop Bullshit
All R1a are not Slavic,
or maybe for You south Italy is also Slavic.
Stop blame Greece for your problems, and start to concern about your people, by building monuments and statues, you simply cover a lie that even majority of Fyrom doesn't believe.
it is another thing the Ancient Makedonia,
another the Roman Makedonia.
I wonder in school what you tell to kids that Alexander was slavic and Dusan was Greek?
!!!!!!
Yes I have to admit that ancient Thracians were R1a although being I2 solve many problems and Questions
But the R1a is Greek colonies proves that IE speaking Greeks were also R1a