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Scythian/Sarmatian DNA, your thoughts.

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http://www.google.nl/#sclient=psy-a...biw=1298&bih=595&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&cad=b

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http://www.google.nl/#sclient=psy-a...biw=1298&bih=595&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&cad=b

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http://www.google.nl/#sclient=psy-a...biw=1298&bih=595&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&cad=b
 
 
Cobol19 said:
Do you agree with this paper and those maps?
Click to expand...
There're 2 papers.
1st: Where in India did the Aryans arrive? Three answers to one question
2nd: Y-haplogroups of carriers of the Aryan language

Not 100%. I believe Mitanni were proto-Aryans from West Asian who migrated into Central Asia. But I think there was a back migration into Kurdistan again.

I believe in this map:

migrations01.jpg
 
Goga said:
There're 2 papers.
1st: Where in India did the Aryans arrive? Three answers to one question
2nd: Y-haplogroups of carriers of the Aryan language

Not 100%. I believe Mitanni were proto-Aryans from West Asian who migrated into Central Asia. But I think there was a back migration into Kurdistan again.

I believe in this map:

migrations01.jpg
Click to expand...

So you're basically choosing and picking what you want to believe, not very ethical, but whatever.
 
Thank you, Bodin, for your reply in post #310.
 
Guys please calm down.

@Goga I can understand why you behave like this when it comes to Assyrian,Armenians. I also had the luck to get in conversation with some of them. But not all people are the same. If I am not wrong Cobol19 is one of the other sort of Assyrians.
 
Alan said:
Guys please calm down.

@Goga I can understand why you behave like this when it comes to Assyrian,Armenians. I also had the luck to get in conversation with some of them. But not all people are the same. If I am not wrong Cobol19 is one of the other sort of Assyrians.
Click to expand...

Well Alan, some of your experiences with some Assyrians sums up how some of my experiences with some Kurds have been, it's a two way street my friend, on the other hand you along with the few other Kurds (Like a few personal friends of mine and the ones I met through 23andMe for example) I have respect for because the discussion has nothing to do with flame wars and you actually read and realize that what I write does not degrade Kurds in any way, if anything I support Kurdish DNA advancement.

Goga get's too paranoid for no reason and likes to degrade Assyrians and Armenians in a very stupid way, he does not get my respect because he's an unethical person that is only interested in spreading personal agenda and putting unnecessary fuel on fire.
 
Alan said:
Guys please calm down.
Click to expand...

I see I look like someone with an nationalistic agenda to pursue, while others might think I would like to undermine someones nicely elaborated theory. I am trying to do neither.

I just want to learn about my ancestors, who they really were. I don't really care if there were some Aryans, Sarmatians, Slaves or Gipsies. I would like to know them just for who they really are.

I just hope they were not rapists. I really hope I misread that. But if they were, and someone can tell me why that would be true I would be thankful for the knowledge.
 
Ivan said:
I see I look like someone with an nationalistic agenda to pursue, while others might think I would like to undermine someones nicely elaborated theory. I am trying to do neither.

I just want to learn about my ancestors, who they really were. I don't really care if there were some Aryans, Sarmatians, Slaves or Gipsies. I would like to know them just for who they really are.

I just hope they were not rapists. I really hope I misread that. But if they were, and someone can tell me why that would be true I would be thankful for the knowledge.
Click to expand...

I hate to disappoint you, but there's a strong chance that we all have some sort of rapist in our paternal lineage, you're forgetting that human history is very deep and goes back beyond 50,000 years, I would be surprised if there was no rapist in there somewhere.
 
Cobol19 said:
I hate to disappoint you, but there's a strong chance that we all have some sort of rapist in our paternal lineage, you're forgetting that human history is very deep and goes back beyond 50,000 years, I would be surprised if there was no rapist in there somewhere.
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I am not disappointed when I learn something new. What you said is true for the civilisation as a whole, but I wanted to know more about this theory that G haplogroup singled out and primarily expanded in this manner, at least my haplogroup relatives from Caucasus. This I hope I misread. Nevertheless if it is true I would be happy to know.
 
Ivan said:
I am not disappointed when I learn something new. What you said is true for the civilisation as a whole, but I wanted to know more about this theory that G haplogroup singled out and primarily expanded in this manner, at least my haplogroup relatives from Caucasus. This I hope I misread. Nevertheless if it is true I would be happy to know.
Click to expand...

You're never gonna find out ancient rapes so don't worry about it, just focus on studying your lineages and DNA, there's no need to focus on negative crap like this.

Btw, your paternal lineage is actually quite rare, but it's present in the Caucasus and that's where it likely originated (Or in Iran), and it's most likely much younger than G2.
 
Cobol19 said:
You're never gonna find out ancient rapes so don't worry about it, just focus on studying your lineages and DNA, there's no need to focus on negative crap like this.

Btw, your paternal lineage is actually quite rare, but it's present in the Caucasus and that's where it likely originated (Or in Iran), and it's most likely much younger than G2.
Click to expand...

I am just interested to know, not worried.

BTW I am aware that Caucasus population had a manner of abducting young women and making them their wifes, which was especially true for mountain population which I agree was mostly G. This is quite different than what I have read here.

Considering G1 being old from 5000 - 17000 years and being marked as a the first G with a new mutation I find it interesting if you have some other info where it is considered younger than G2. Does that mean the group lettering should change, and renaming take place. This is the first time I have heard about this. Can you link me to some of it.
 
Cobol19 said:
You're never gonna find out ancient rapes so don't worry about it, just focus on studying your lineages and DNA, there's no need to focus on negative crap like this.

Btw, your paternal lineage is actually quite rare, but it's present in the Caucasus and that's where it likely originated (Or in Iran), and it's most likely much younger than G2.
Click to expand...

I am just interested to know, not worried.

BTW I am aware that Caucasus population had a manner of abducting young women and making them their wifes, which was especially true for mountain population which I agree was mostly G. This is quite different than what I have read.

Considering G1 being old from 5000 - 17000 years and being marked as a the first G with a new mutation I find it interesting if you have some other info where it is considered younger than G2. Does that mean the group lettering should change, and renaming take place. This is the first time I have heard about this. Can you link me to some of it.
 
Ivan said:
I am just interested to know, not worried.

BTW I am aware that Caucasus population had a manner of abducting young women and making them their wifes, which was especially true for mountain population which I agree was mostly G. This is quite different than what I have read here.
Click to expand...

Abducting women does not result in rape lineages, you're actually correct, it was very common for tribal groups in those regions (Anatolia/Caucasus/Iran) to abduct young beautiful women, but when they abducted them, they usually took them back to their tribal lands and kept them as wives, they did not rape them and throw them away, if they did rape a woman in the intend of not keeping her as a wife they usually killed her after, the reason for that is because rape could result to a pregnancy, and tribal pride was way too much to throw away a seed in case it was potentially a boy which is very important in such tribal cultures, so it was either rape and kill, or abduct and keep as a wife, the actual rapes that you're talking about were more common in army soldiers from foreign lands rather than surrounding tribal groups.

Considering G1 being old from 5000 - 17000 years and being marked as a the first G with a new mutation I find it interesting if you have some other info where it is considered younger than G2. Does that mean the group lettering should change, and renaming take place. This is the first time I have heard about this. Can you link me to some of it.
Click to expand...

I've seen it somewhere, I'll try to find it, though I also get a lot of my info on this lineage from one of the FTDNA G project administrators, he's a G1* like yourself.
 
Cobol19 said:
What's my qualifications? What are Eupedia's qualifications? Listen, I don't take any percentages or maps seriously unless they have sources, and until Maciamo provides where he got his sources from, the numbers and maps on this website are irrelevant.



It is South-Central Asia, Central Asia is pretty much north of this area (Kazakhstan, Southern Russia, etc), and parts of Pakistan belongs to this region (North Pakistan and anything west of the Indus).



I think they were more connected with the Scythians than with the Medes (Their language is the evidence for it), and the lineage that was likely passed down was R1a1a (Based on Scythian ancient DNA), not I2a1b.
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Everybody say Tajikistan , Uzbekistan , Turkmenistan, Afganistan and South Kazahstan are in central Asia , just you say they are not, but I suposse there is no way they are right
There is realy small diference betwen east and west Iranic languagues . You seem to know which languague Sarmathians spocked , how? Herodotus clearly say they speacked spoiled Scythian - there was some diference , that even Greek would spot , Greek that isnt speacked any of these languagues . Serbians spoke Slavic languague but still has only about 5% of Slavic genes
 
Ivan said:
Are you trying to say that one haplogroup raped women of all other y hap. from caucasus. Is this your explanation why there are so much of them there.
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No I didnt try to say that - there was lot more G in Caucasus to begin with , and then group of Sarmathians comed carrying I2a1b , they mixed with G population that lived on they lands - now they are I2a1b and G , and they make war with neighbours that dont have any i2a1b , and realy strong G , and they rape eachothers womans - that would lead to increase of G among first population and only traces of i in second population
 
Cobol19 said:
But this is based on a maybe, not legit, when reporting frequencies one needs to be 100% on the spot, Maciamo took:

F* - 10.5%
K* - 9.6%

And turned it to:

J1 - 9.5%
L - 4.5%
T - 5%
Other - 1% (The other 8% is R2a)

The assumption makes this a flaw imo, if the data is not there, you should not guess randomly.
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But we are hier to develope theories , and to take best guesses . He probably had his reasons to put most of F* in to J1 - even if all of that is not J1 it is still bether than to call it F* ( which is realy rear )
 
sparkey said:
You guys post too fast for me to keep up... but I will say that these questions of Bodin's are critical to understanding I2a-Din, and that they're pretty much unanswerable by genetics alone at the moment. That is:

1) Must have been 2000 years ago +/- 1000 years given the STR diversity. But who brought it is another question. We know that its diversity is higher to the North, and we are fairly sure that there is no ancient Western European I2a-Din. But we don't know if its diversity is even higher in the East.
2) Who knows? We have zero data on STR diversity of I2a-Din in Kurdistan. And yet the Sarmatian theory relies a lot on having STR diversity data of I2a-Din in the East. Unfortunately Bodin's frequency-based conjecture could be way off due to genetic drift even if he has all his numbers right. We need multiple 37+ marker samples of Eastern I2a-Din. We don't have this.

Cobol19 is right that we should doubt the extent of our knowledge about I2a-Din in the East. The better default assumption, based on all that we know about Haplogroup I in general (that the center of diversity of every clade within it is in Europe) is that it is a relatively recent migrant from Europe.

BTW Goga check out the attachment to this post by Humanist which shows an interesting tightness in grouping of Assyrians, Armenians, and Iranians (no Kurds tested unfortunately).
Click to expand...
Main question still stays how did it get from Balkans to Kurdistan ? All of Turkic I2a1b has to be from setlling of Balkanians after XIV century AD( up to today - muslims from Sandzak go to work in Turkey , and stay there) - that settling is historicaly confirmed , and they have to had significant I2a1b , and today Turks have realy small % of I2a1 - so certainly most of it and probably all is there only since XIV century AD .
 
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