BEFORE ANWER YOU ON A POINT A CONFESS AN HUGE ERROR: when I spoke about my huge surprise concerning North Bashkirs (Myre's surveys): NO R-U106? North baskirland: Nb 70 / R81b: 53: 1 before M269, total M269: 52 2 L23 and 50 U152 it seams a "foreign import" among this only Baskir group -
There is no way to tell, honestly, if the eastern U-152 is-
1)a remnant Scythian/Getae native europid presence who are in traditional lands that are in fact within historical Scythian/Getic lands-
2)a relocated foreign import europid population(if so it seems to predate the rise of Islam and would likely denote western europeans captured and relocated by Hunnic or Mongol captors)
While one cannot discount the known fact that a lot of enslaved europeans were moved east by Hunnic captors, its just as possible and fits within my theory concerning the Getic/Getae/Scythian populations that this is a remnant population that managed to hang-on after asiatic conquest, probably because they were not any longer Europid in appearance due to maternal asiatic/hunnic ancestry,
and thus did not stand out until modern Y-dna testing from any other local Hunnic-turkic genetics populations.
While either above scenario could be the case, its likely that some small, localized (racially-maternally intermixed) reservoir population of europid Y-line natives would still exist even if the majority of the host population were destroyed or migrated west, and this Bashkortostan population would be that concealed remnant.
for CORINTH: what is naive is deny any kind of worth to metrics (and other phenotypical means) studies: they have to be done very carefully and to be put in relation with chronology, climate and nurture : way of life - but they can bring some interesting facts about populations and can be linked closer to autosomal DNA than can do the only Y & mt DNA ligneages - in history-anthropology EVERY WAY OF APPROACH ARE VALUABLE -
Trying to resurrect Phrenology or give it credit as a valid (beyond racial conclusions = mongoloid, europid, negroid) pursuit that is remotely worthy of desecrating and polluting rare ancient burials so that a clown can take measurements of the skulls, NO it is not in remote way a positive, valuable or rational usage or exploitation of these ancient artifacts or remains.
It is a schlock-quackery that is rooted (and should be left to) in the 19th century, and is fully nonsensical. Any phenotype promoter, or person asserting that they can divine anything beyond the assignment to the three basic racial groups or some bone-related diseases (leprosy ) from examining skulls is a complete and total fraud, who is perpetuating something akin to palm-reading or fortune-telling.
There are many black americans for instance (33%) who are in a non-african paternal Hg.. Almost all of these persons have a negroid phenotype, and appear from and Phrenology to be Negroid.
There are many of these black americans in Hg I1 and Hg R1b in particular, which did not come from a african male ancestor, even though the phenotype of the person possessing the Hg is black-skinned and of a Negroid bone/facial/skull structure. This is because- over hundreds of years of slavery, the african females were giving birth to children often fathered by the white slave owner, who was R1b or I1 paternal Hg.
To look at this candidate the way that some in this thread irrationally do, we would need to assert that the I1 in these black americans most likely comes from a negroid male paternal ancestor who brought the Hg with him from a African population, since the primary phenotype in these persons is Negroid.
The reality is, the Hg will remain perpetually, while a fair complexion or other recessive traits will be lost after only one generation of intermixture..
For the reason, judging a population simply and primarily by its phenotype and asserting the prevailing phenotype is indicative of the paternal ancestry does not work- especially for Europids with recessive traits.
AS A WHOLE these types are an important but not dominant part in the present Lombardia and not all of them came there with germanic diverse people - a few ones could have come there with Celts (among whom these phenotypes were present but in a very lighter proportion than among Germanics, and maybe with other Y-DNA repartitions) - I prefer link the most of this phenotypes to bearers of Y-R-U106 and Y-I1 (plus some Y-R1a different from the ones of South Italy (
One would expect to see significant U-152 in Romanian populations if it were a founding element in Italic populations. In fact, Romanians do not possess more than 1% of U-152, which is a immigrant-intermixure degree of introgression.
We have historical documentation of the Lombards taking possession of a region that was depleted in population by the Gothic wars, which consumed all the food resources and led to starvation in the area along with the war dead,
it was then hit with at least two severe plagues that were concentrated within Italy and do not cross into the German lands,
most of the (surviving) population fled their homes as the Lombards approached and ran to the byzantine south, or to ravenna.
This was a good call on their part, because most of the catholic church leadership and many civilians were mass-murdered by the arian-christian Lombardic host.
Next, the Lombards are able over hundreds of years to repell repeated attempts by the Byzantines to sack and defeat them, which was assisted by local Italic populations.. this means the breeding population of 'Lombards' was great enough to meet the superpower of its time and completely defeat them on multiple occasions.
Lombard males would be continually introgressing into the Italic gene pool as they have free access to Italic females, and would over hundreds of years be producing offspring either intentionally or unintentionally with them, while Italic males are restricted by law from marrying or consorting with 'Lombardic' females-
This is a 'prerfect storm' for the Y-line genetics of the Lombardic population to come to a majority of the resident population, while the Italic Y-line genetics are deliberately suppressed.