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When did baltic and slavic split ?

When I was in Toronto I had a Finnish landlord and among the tenants was a Swede, German-Hungarian, Estonian. We used to shoot the breeze a lot and I learned a lot about the "other" Europe that we were not taught about. I learned about gypsies. I was taught only British history. The Estonian worked for St John's Hospital and I was talking about the Templars. He said "what do you think the St. John's Hospital was?"

I checked it and found it was also similar to the Templars and he told me about the Teutonic Knights coming to the Baltic area. I find these discussions fascinating though I understand a lot of heat is involved as there were so many wars and Medieval Europe was never taught very much in school except it was mentioned as the Dark Ages.
 
oriental said:
When I was in Toronto I had a Finnish landlord and among the tenants was a Swede, German-Hungarian, Estonian. We used to shoot the breeze a lot and I learned a lot about the "other" Europe that we were not taught about. I learned about gypsies. I was taught only British history. The Estonian worked for St John's Hospital and I was talking about the Templars. He said "what do you think the St. John's Hospital was?"

I checked it and found it was also similar to the Templars and he told me about the Teutonic Knights coming to the Baltic area. I find these discussions fascinating though I understand a lot of heat is involved as there were so many wars and Medieval Europe was never taught very much in school except it was mentioned as the Dark Ages.
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the Hospitalers became St.John, the Templars did not
 
Thx. I know that Templars and St. John's were two different organizations. After the Templars were dissolved I think St. John's took over their role.( I think).
 
oriental said:
Thx. I know that Templars and St. John's were two different organizations. After the Templars were dissolved I think St. John's took over their role.( I think).
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They where around at the same time
-Hospitalers wore black with white cross ( see movie Kingdom of heaven ), they wore red with white cross in northern europe
-Templars wore white with red cross
-St Stephans wore white with yellow cross
-Teutonic knights wore white with black cross
 
well, so the aistians were the balts ? what about the venedae, were those the people we call slavs today ?
 
Robert22 said:
well, so the aistians were the balts ? what about the venedae, were those the people we call slavs today ?
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aistians? ........do you mean aestii .........they are modern estonians, east-baltic people

venedae , logicically they can only be initially west-baltic people who first became germanized and later became slavitized ......then by the early middle-ages, the term was used by the lithuanians.
In the middle ages, the commonwealth of Poland-Lithuanian led to the poles claiming the term....ah..the monarchies, you have to have a greedy mind...it s mine, mine I say.

the "ae" at the end of the word indicates a mixed group ( ethnicity) of people, like samatae, bastanae, etc etc
 
yes, i meant the aestii, so were those fenno-ugric people ? i thought they were baltic speaking.

so that means the Venedae were baltic ? i thought they were the ancestors of the slavs however. i also read somewhere that venedae might have been centum people.
 
'The Germanic tribe referred to as the Aestii by others, who Endzelins states knew themselves as Prussians, transferred the name to the more eastern Estonians with which they had contact since the first century BC, as the Estonians did not have their own name other than maarahvas "people of the land".[8]

The Estonians themselves only took on the name in the late nineteenth century.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesti
 
zanipolo said:
aistians? ........do you mean aestii .........they are modern estonians, east-baltic people

venedae , logicically they can only be initially west-baltic people who first became germanized and later became slavitized ......then by the early middle-ages, the term was used by the lithuanians.
In the middle ages, the commonwealth of Poland-Lithuanian led to the poles claiming the term....ah..the monarchies, you have to have a greedy mind...it s mine, mine I say.

the "ae" at the end of the word indicates a mixed group ( ethnicity) of people, like samatae, bastanae, etc etc
Click to expand...


hmmm

that -ae in end might mean something

lets see

ending in -οι -oi
sometimes means group of sons, ancestors,
sons of Keltos are Keltoi
sons of Makedon are Makednoi

ending in -es
sometimes means group of habitats dwellers allies
Crete people are Κρητες

but there is no special ocasion rule,
for example Italians are Italoi

the case of -ae might be connected with Greek -αι
that means a female name of tribe or City name

Female nouns in plural get -αι but we find no description of nation or tribe with -αι -ae in Greek
but we find city names like
Μυκηναι Mucenae
Αθηναι Athenae
that maybe means a territorial name, or a city name

I agree that ending in -ae describes plural with different form, probably a union, an alliance or a major toponymic description,
example Mycenae was a city, but we also consider as Mycenae that era Sparta Pylos etc
probably what Greek used as -ες, sarmatae - Σαυροματες.
 
Robert22 said:
yes, i meant the aestii, so were those fenno-ugric people ? i thought they were baltic speaking.

so that means the Venedae were baltic ? i thought they were the ancestors of the slavs however. i also read somewhere that venedae might have been centum people.
Click to expand...

thats what I said, east baltic speakers.

ask yourself, who was in east germany and poland before the germans and slavs arrived
 
Kardu said:
'The Germanic tribe referred to as the Aestii by others, who Endzelins states knew themselves as Prussians, transferred the name to the more eastern Estonians with which they had contact since the first century BC, as the Estonians did not have their own name other than maarahvas "people of the land".[8]

The Estonians themselves only took on the name in the late nineteenth century.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesti
Click to expand...

baltic people

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=aestii people&f=false
 
A quite plausible explanation is that Aestii means Eastern - any of the peoples who lived East of German tribes. According to this explanation, any peoples could be referred to as Aestii (Eastern from German tribes) - Prussians, Lithuanians, Lats, Estonians, etc., but no one particular tribe called themselves Aestii during classical times.
 
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