Do you belive one day there will be total pacifism?

[toyomotor]

I don't believe that the world will ever be free of violence and war. Human kind are greedy and vindictive. There are some who still want to prosecute wars for centuries old grudges. Others will always covet what someone else has got, take oil as a commodity of topic. As the worlds population increases the demand by some countries for more and more resources will increase and those resources will be taken by force from weaker countries. The annexation of Mongolia and Tibet years ago by China, using the rationale that those countries were originally Chinese or under Chinese control should not have been permitted by the world community-it sets the scene for what will inevitably happen over perhaps the next century. But this is only one example, there are others, and none of us is truly safe.

 

[LeBrok]

I don't believe that the world will ever be free of violence and war. Human kind are greedy and vindictive. There are some who still want to prosecute wars for centuries old grudges. Others will always covet what someone else has got, take oil as a commodity of topic. As the worlds population increases the demand by some countries for more and more resources will increase and those resources will be taken by force from weaker countries. The annexation of Mongolia and Tibet years ago by China, using the rationale that those countries were originally Chinese or under Chinese control should not have been permitted by the world community-it sets the scene for what will inevitably happen over perhaps the next century. But this is only one example, there are others, and none of us is truly safe.

Did you notice that in recent decades we have fewer wars, especially interstate wars. Maybe because it is more to lose than gain these days from the war?
70 years ago we had WW2 in Europe, 60 million killed and everybody hated Germans. 60 years later we have European union with Germany giving their money away to help and develop poor members. What a turn around, wouldn't you say? On top of it the new and peaceful Europe is more prosperous than ever before.
I don't know about you but this real life examples give me understanding and hope for our future.

Don't worry about China, soon communists will relinquish power, this will make china democratic and free, which will give Tibet and few other provinces chance to separate. Unless they will see a big advantage to stay in Chinese Union for material benefits. Remember Soviet Union? Now we have Russia with some republics staying in federation.

Yes some of us are greedy and vindictive, but most are compassionate, friendly, loving and caring. And we have so much these days that it is not easy to go to the war and lose it.

 

[toyomotor]

LeBrok: Yes, I see what you mean but countries with huge populations (which continue to increase annually) and few resources will ultimately need to look elsewhere for resources which they need but can't probably afford. Don't forget, decisions to go to war are never made by the people, but by a small group of politicians, regardless of the public will. The USA is a good case in hand, it goes to war, unbidden by the population which then really has no alternative but to support its troops while condemning the war. "Yes some of us are greedy and vindictive, but most are compassionate, friendly, loving and caring. And we have so much these days that it is not easy to go to the war and lose it. " I'd like to think that was true, but history shows otherwise.

 

[LeBrok]

LeBrok: Yes, I see what you mean but countries with huge populations (which continue to increase annually) and few resources will ultimately need to look elsewhere for resources which they need but can't probably afford. Don't forget, decisions to go to war are never made by the people, but by a small group of politicians, regardless of the public will. The USA is a good case in hand, it goes to war, unbidden by the population which then really has no alternative but to support its troops while condemning the war. "Yes some of us are greedy and vindictive, but most are compassionate, friendly, loving and caring. And we have so much these days that it is not easy to go to the war and lose it. " I'd like to think that was true, but history shows otherwise.

Yes, the limited resources can be the flaming point of future conflicts. However looking at Europe or other developed countries make me hope for the best. Europe got richer than ever before in its history and yet it got more peaceful at the same time. We are faster and faster inventing new technologies than we are running out of old ones. Denmark produces 1/3 of its electricity from wind already. Once we muster thermonuclear energy we will have almost unlimited energy. Solar power should become very efficient and affordable in 50 years too.

Looks like from end of Cold War world is quieting down.

http://www.systemicpeace.org/conflict.htm

 

[toyomotor]

@LeBrok: Latest News-China is relaxing it's One Child Policy, as it now finds itself in the position of not having sufficient people to fill the future work force requirements. Resource wise, I wonder how this will end up? I take your point on the decrease in Cold War friction and the expansion of renewable energy. But there also factors such as food production, already a major problem in some African countries. Agricultural technology is the obvious answer but it seems that not much, comparatively, is being done in this area. I think we should sideline space exploration for a while and concentrate on the existing problems on earth. What do you say?

 

[LeBrok]

@LeBrok: But there also factors such as food production, already a major problem in some African countries. Agricultural technology is the obvious answer but it seems that not much, comparatively, is being done in this area.

Yes, this could be a major obstacle in world peace for decades to come. Seams like the food production is stretched to the limits these days but every year there are 80 million new faces to feed. The unfriendly political climate to GM foods is not helping to feed hungry either. All middle eastern revolutions were started by unhappy and hungry citizens. Imagine feeding your hungry family with a dollar a day when prices of rice tripled in last few years. We might not see peace much there in this region for many years to come.
And I'm usually the optimistic one.

I think we should sideline space exploration for a while and concentrate on the existing problems on earth. What do you say?

I used to love reading sciencefiction and loved to see men in space. Now I say, screw the space, lol.
Well, I wouldn't mind sending little robotic missions to explore space for few million apiece. Instead we have spent 150 billion on international space station, and nothing interesting or benefiting came out of it.

 

[LeBrok]

Not much is happening at the moment, only domestic wars. Mostly about Taliban, Alqaeda and drugs.
[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Start of conflict[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Conflict[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Continent[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Location[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Cumulative fatalities[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Fatalities in 2012[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Fatalities in 2013[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1964[/TD]
[TD]Colombian conflict (1964–present)[/TD]
[TD]South America[/TD]
[TD]

Colombia[/TD]
[TD]220,000-600,000^[2][4][/TD]
[TD]4,692 (Insurgents killed in combat)^[5][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1978[/TD]
[TD]Conflict in Afghanistan (1978–present)[/TD]
[TD]Asia[/TD]
[TD]

Afghanistan[/TD]
[TD]1,405,111-2,084,468^{[6][7][8][9][10]}[/TD]
[TD]8,398+^[11][12][/TD]
[TD]144 (only coalition)^[12][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1991[/TD]
[TD]Somali Civil War[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]

Somalia

Somaliland[/TD]
[TD]500,000+^[13][14][/TD]
[TD]2,620^[15][/TD]
[TD]68+^[16][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1992[/TD]
[TD]Al-Qaeda insurgency in Yemen[/TD]
[TD]Asia[/TD]
[TD]

Yemen[/TD]
[TD]3,711^[17][/TD]
[TD]2,333^[17][/TD]
[TD]81-98+^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts#endnote_b}[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2001[/TD]
[TD]Islamist insurgency in Nigeria[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]

Nigeria[/TD]
[TD]15,000+^[18][19][20][/TD]
[TD]792+^[21][/TD]
[TD]1,000-1,007+^[c][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2004[/TD]
[TD]War in North-West Pakistan[/TD]
[TD]Asia[/TD]
[TD]

Pakistan[/TD]
[TD]49,921^[22][/TD]
[TD]6,211^[22][/TD]
[TD]4,784^[22][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2006[/TD]
[TD]Mexican Drug War[/TD]
[TD]North America[/TD]
[TD]

Mexico[/TD]
[TD]110,000+^[23][24][/TD]
[TD]18,161+ (by November)^[25][/TD]
[TD]10,000+^[26][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD]Sudanese nomadic conflicts[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]

South Sudan

Sudan[/TD]
[TD]7,441^[27][28][29][/TD]
[TD]3,200^[27][28][/TD]
[TD]869+^{[citation needed]}[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD]Syrian civil war[/TD]
[TD]Asia[/TD]
[TD]

Syria[/TD]
[TD]120,300^[30][/TD]
[TD]41,900^[31][/TD]
[TD]35,000^{[citation needed]}[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD]Inter and Intra-Sudanese conflicts[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]

South Sudan

Sudan[/TD]
[TD]4,900+^[32][/TD]
[TD]1,119^[32][/TD]
[TD]2,500+^[33][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD]Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal)[/TD]
[TD]Asia[/TD]
[TD]

Iraq[/TD]
[TD]12,360 ^[34][/TD]
[TD]4,573 (civilians)^[34][/TD]
[TD]7,400 (civilians)^[35][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD]Islamist protests in Egypt (July 2013–present)[/TD]
[TD]Africa[/TD]
[TD]

Egypt[/TD]
[TD]1,182 ^[40][/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]1,182[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

Less than 100 thousand people died from conflicts in 2013, out of 7 billion. That's one in 100,000, or 0.0001 percent, or about 300 a day. That's probably some sort of record for the peace on Earth.
To put it in perspective 3,000 people die from cars every day on this planet, that's 10 times more!

 

[pacificbreeze]

Yes i do believe )

 

[Leandros]

Pacifism is against Nature.
So, no, it will never happen

 

[paul333]

I don't believe in a peaceful world as long as pirate states like the USA and the UK constantly are waging wars.

Short Memory, a lot of Americans and UK people fought a war, and were killed or wounded, to free your country, even stopped the war to drop you foods. There can be no pacifism Human Nature rules it out, look at 'Ants' been here millions of years, have war after war, we are no different, and not too far away genetically.

 

[Salento]

No, it will never happen. We are a Belligerent Specie.

 

[LeBrok]

There were times when provinces were fighting each other in every European country, or city against city. Domestic wars brewed every 5-10 years in every country. Now they are not!
There were times when countries fought each other constantly, and Europeans hated each other so much that they slaughtered 100 million people in 20th century alone! Not anymore.
Europe was never so united, cooperative, sharing, mixing, traveling, having fun, rich and helping like today.
Do you see this positive trend?

 

[paul333]

"Europe was never so united", seems cracks are appearing, ie most recently, the Spanish/Catalan issue, and Brexit. Germany is once again flexing its muscles, using a financial dominance of Europe programe, it seems, which will no doubt cause concerns again soon.

 

[LeBrok]

"Europe was never so united", seems cracks are appearing, ie most recently, the Spanish/Catalan issue, and Brexit. Germany is once again flexing its muscles, using a financial dominance of Europe programe, it seems, which will no doubt cause concerns again soon.

Did you notice that this is a relative term? And in context to my full post, you should gather that I was compering Europe of the past centuries to today's Europe.

 

[paul333]

Did you notice that this is a relative term? And in context to my full post, you should gather that I was compering Europe of the past centuries to today's Europe.

Europe is presently in a very difficult position, the closer we get to each other the bigger the risk becomes in my opinion. We are now preparing defence's as a guard against further Russian Agression, look today in the North East etc, 'Estonia' 'Poland', and look what is happening to Eastern Ukraine. It is only a few years since the Iron curtian was opened, where Europe was very much prepared for Nuclear War at short notice, against its European nieghbours.

It is mostly Nato, and its American componant, that has kept the peace in Europe, and they now have an insular ideology emerging, and NATO may be changing. I actually think Europe is in a historically similar position as it always is.

There has aways been Allies within Europe, since recorded History, from against and for Julius Ceaser, to the present, the situation today is no different, in trying to keep the peace, we make alignments. The new player on the block is the Terrorism war now growing in Europe, which adds to the new dangers.Religeous devisions in Europe have grown significantly recently, and they are changing the face, and future, of Europe, and making Europe one of the most dangerous places on earth. In my present opinion, I cannot see Europe being a more peacefull place, quite the opposite, a more frightening and dangerous place, therefore I cannot see that one day there will be total pacifism especially in Europe, not in the forseeable future I feel.

 

[Mmiikkii]

Yes, we could have peace.
Someone in the thread said that as long as there are 2 different people on Earth we'd have conflicts.
Conflicts, disagreements, differences... of course.
The wars we have now, no way. That thing has been dying in front of our own eyes. The reconciliation after WW2, the UN, and the Cold War never becoming a Hot war have been a blow to brute force it will never recover from.

Of course in the future we will have much more trouble. At some point, we'll start having serious wars again for sure(don't know exactly when).
To SOME extent everything is cyclical, there are periods of height, and decadence.
But on the other hand, time is mainly linear. Just because Rome fell and the early Middle Ages were the Dark Ages. That doesn't mean we were worse in terms of warfare after that period of turmoil. Christianity is not as barbaric and violent as the Romans were. That is only one example.

In the short term, the pessimistics of 'we'll always have war/armed peace', are right.
In the long term, they're absolutely wrong. In part because globalization has always make people very uniform, and eventually you run out of differences to fight over.

 

[Eric Jenkins]

Maybe someday it will happen, I really hope.