Illyrian-Albanian Continuity

[ukaj]

Why are you making such stupid statements? That guy is Croat, born far from Montenegro and Albania. How can he be from Vasojevich tribe?!

I'm not going to argue with you anymore about gusle instrument. For those who want to see more you can take a glimpse at this blog about Guslars of Croatia: http://hrvatskiguslari.blogspot.com/

yes but what im saying to you ius that the vaschechi tribe are albanians this is what im saying to you,an hoti is pure albanians also,you saying oto etc what ever being slav,i posted pictures of balsic house emblem,witch shows the name on the coin gjon,balsha house is albanian,i know the gusle is played by some slavs but not all an their is very little of slavnic tribes who do so,if you ask me i belive the albanians tribes of north albania influenced the lahuta to the slavs,their is more than 250 thousand albanians from hoti tribe whom all speak albanian an all use the lahuta,,an around 1 thousand montenegrins who also use the lahuta,this is what im saying,i know vaschechi tribe were albanian an some still are,,remember im from that region,

 

[Sile]

The Hellenic coast (colonies/expansion) was already under extreme attack/presssure by the Illyrians in the late 3rd cen BC; Queen Teuta led a campaign against Epidamnus, Corcyra (Corfu) and Apollonia and the crushing Illyrian victory over the Achaean/Aetolian league led to the taking of Corfu and successive siege of Epidamnus;

Polybius II/X
The Illyrians lashed their boats together in batches of four and thus engaged the enemy. They sacrificed their own boats, presenting them broadside to their adversaries in a position favouring their charge, but when the enemy's ships had charged and struck them and getting fixed in them, found themselves in difficulties, as in each case the four boats lashed together were hanging on to their beaks, the marines leapt on to the decks of the Achaean ships and overmastered them by their numbers. In this way they captured four quadriremes and sunk with all hands a quinquereme, on board of which was Margus of Keryneia, a man who up to the end served the Achaeans most loyally. The ships that were engaged with the Acarnanians, seeing the success of the Illyrians, and trusting to their speed, made sail with a fair wind and escaped home in safety....The Illyrian forces, highly elated by their success, continued the siege with more security and confidence, and the Corcyreans, whose hopes were crushed by the repulse of their allies, after enduring the siege for a short time longer, came to terms with the Illyrians....After this the Illyrian commanders at once sailed off and coming to anchor at Epidamnus, again set themselves to besiege that city.

This ultimately led to the Roman intervention - and the Illyrian Parthini who dwelled in the hinterland (not coast) of the Greek colonies (Epidamnus/Apollonia) allied themselves with Rome; And after the 2nd Punic-war and during the 2nd cen BC the Romans took control over the entire Epidamian-coast (Greek colonies) and the entire Epidamnian-hinterland (Illyrian tribes);

What is interesting is that in throughout all Antiquity the Epidamian (Illyrian tribal) area remained under strong Hellenic influence and all north of Lissos was than stronger under Roman/Latin influence;

Jireček-Line -

Parthini ?....its odd that you mention these because in the 2009 book ( to name 1 )
Hannibal's War:, Books 21-30

By J.C. Yardley

they mentioned Parthini, Dimullum and 2 other tribes that should be set Free by the macedonian King Philip V as Rome was sent to protect these Aeolian Greeks? Pulius Sempronius arranged the treaty. He stated no illyrian tribe lay under the protection of the Macedonians and a conflict with macedonian would not result in illyrian interference. IIRC they (romans and macedonians ) clashed at Pydna

 

[FBS]

the map indicates all ancient greek lands

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The dorian area of albania was eventually replaced by slavs and then albanized by albanians. The serb slavs also held much of modern Montenegro, provinces like Hum and Zeta

Could you please provide with historical proof when this Albanisation happened. There are historical records when slavic people came down to balkans but there is no record of Albanians coming from anywhere!

 

[Ike]

yes but what im saying to you ius that the vaschechi tribe are albanians this is what im saying to you,an hoti is pure albanians also,you saying oto etc what ever being slav,i posted pictures of balsic house emblem,witch shows the name on the coin gjon,balsha house is albanian,

1. History says different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasojevići


2. The name on the coin is not Gjon. How did you even get letter 'n' into George?
It's just South Slavic version of George:


Russian: Георгий (Georgy), Юрий (Yury/Yuri), Егор (Yegor/Egor)
Serbian:
Cyrillic: Ђорђе, Ђорђо, Ђукан, Ђурађ, Ђурђе, Ђоко, Ђока, Ђуро, Ђура
Latin: Đorđe, Đorđo, Đukan, Đurađ, Đurđe, Đoko, Đoka, Đuro, Đura
Albanian: Gjergj, Jorgo, Gjorgj


The insription is Cyrillic for something belonging of Гюрга Н Балше. Transliterated it would be "Giurgia Balshe" or in English where there is no cases "of Giurg Balsha".
Since that /g/ is being red as /dz/ it is spoken /Dz-u-r-dz/ = Georg.

i know the gusle is played by some slavs but not all an their is very little of slavnic tribes who do so,

You are misguiding people by using the term 'some' which is correct when regarded to the whole Slavic population, but totally wrong when regarded to Albanians.

if you ask me i belive the albanians tribes of north albania influenced the lahuta to the slavs,

I believe you, that you believe that.

their is more than 250 thousand albanians from hoti tribe whom all speak albanian an all use the lahuta,,an around 1 thousand montenegrins who also use the lahuta,

This is the reason why you believe it. False data. Where did you get that number?
Gusle are connected with Dinaric region, and are played throughout all Western Balkans from Slovenia down to Albania. Best bet is probably Hg I.

If you listen carefully (for two minutes of both) you can hear the difference between Croatian (posted up) or Montenegrin vocal melodies, contrasted to Albanian vocal melodies, which have obvious non-European source:
(note: This doesn't necessarily mean the same for Albanian nation, Hg or language!)

this is what im saying,i know vaschechi tribe were albanian an some still are,,remember im from that region,

Once again, you're feud is not with me, but with Montenegrin clan of Vasojevichi. Go tell that to them. They had it written different in their books.

 

[LeBrok]

Could you please provide with historical proof when this Albanisation happened. There are historical records when slavic people came down to balkans but there is no record of Albanians coming from anywhere!

Because Albanians snuck in at night. Nobody noticed.

 

[Sile]

Could you please provide with historical proof when this Albanisation happened. There are historical records when slavic people came down to balkans but there is no record of Albanians coming from anywhere!

the map is 800-600BC, Albanians where elsewhere......look them up and let me know

 

[FBS]

Because Albanians snuck in at night. Nobody noticed.

Yeah, sneaky little devils

 

[FBS]

the map is 800-600BC, Albanians where elsewhere......look them up and let me know

I was not comenting on the map. I would appreciate if you could provide us with historical facts, if there are any records that prove your claims that Albanians came from wherever. Please provide with the quotes and the sources, since I have never found any, nor it has been recorded by old or modern Greeks, Romans nor Italians, Bulgarians nor Serbs or Montenegrins (Balkan Slavs in general); no historical records whatsover, only guesses so far.

 

[Sile]

I was not comenting on the map. I would appreciate if you could provide us with historical facts, if there are any records that prove your claims that Albanians came from wherever. Please provide with the quotes and the sources, since I have never found any, nor it has been recorded by old or modern Greeks, Romans nor Italians, Bulgarians nor Serbs or Montenegrins (Balkan Slavs in general); no historical records whatsover, only guesses so far.

I provided some extracts from the 2013 paper...read them

 

[Sile]

The name “Albani” appeared in historical sources not before
the 9th century. The Byzantine historians used the name “Albani”
for the Slavic inhabitants living around the sea-port of
Durazzo (ancient Dyrrhachium) in the Northern Albania.
From the 11th century the name “Albani” (in Latin,
Arbanensis, or Albanenses, in Greek, Αλβανοι or
Αρβανιται ) was related to all Albanian tribes.
33
In the Middle Ages the “Albanoi” lived on the territory
between the cities of Skadar, Prizren, Ohrid and Valona.

33
The name for Albanians - “Арбанаси” is derived fro
m the Latin name for Albanians as the “Arbanenses”.

 

[FBS]

I provided some extracts from the 2013 paper...read them

What you have provided is not historical recordings, it is a reserch paper based on linguistics, and of course your suggestion that the Carpi are todays Albanians, just a wild guess.

 

[Sile]

The Albanian exponents of the theory of Illyrian-Albanian continuity and the ethnical symbiosis repeatedly
quote the words of Arthur Evans that the same coins, pottery and other handcraft products from ancient
Dyrrhachium and Apollonia (located on Albanian littoral) are found in Kosovo and Metohija (in the regions of
Peć, Đakovica and Prizren).
38
This fact is, however, only the evidence of the Hellenization of the Illyrians as the coins were of the Greek origin.

38

Evans A., “Antiquarian Researches in Illyricum”,

Archeologia
, XLIX,
Westminster, 1883, p. 62

 

[Sile]

What you have provided is not historical recordings, it is a reserch paper based on linguistics, and of course your suggestion that the Carpi are todays Albanians, just a wild guess.

Historical recordings?....LOL, albanians deny historical recordings..............when its mentioned the word albanoi first appeared in Roman or Greek text in 150AD , Albanians deny it.................you have a different answer to everything presented

 

[Sile]

The Yugoslav historian Fanula Papazoglu discovered Dacian-Moesian stratum in the formation of the
Dardanians. For that reason, the Dardanians cannot be identified with the Illyrians and cannot contribute
in developing of the Illyrian-Albanian ethnic self-awareness.
40


40

Regarding the problem of the Illyrian origin of the very importantCentral Balkan tribe

Dardanians see in: Garašanin M., “Considerations finales”,Iliri i Albanci

, Beograd, 1988, pp. 370–372; Garašanin M.,“Razmatranja o makedonskom halštatu-Materijalna kultura, hronologija,

etnički problem”,
Starinar
, V−VI, 1954–1955, pp. 37–40; Garašanin M.,
“Istočna granica Ilira prema arheološkim spomenicima”,

Simpozijum oteritorijalnom i hronološkom razgraničenju Ilira u

praistorijsko doba,

Sarajevo, 1964, pp. 138–141; Mack R.,Grenzmarken und Nachbarn

Makedonien in Norden und Western, Gottingen, 1951, pp. 170–173; Vulpe R.,

Gli Illiri dell’Italia Imperiale Romana, III, 1925, p. 163; Cerskov E.,

Rimljani na Kosovu i Metohiji, Beograd, 1969, p. 106; Mirdita Z.,

“Dardanian Studies”,Rilindja

, Prishtina, 1979, p. 49; Papazoglu F.,Srednjobalkanska plemena u predrimsko doba

, Sarajevo, 1969, p. 402; Papazoglu F., “Dardanska onomastika”,

Zbornik Filozofskog fakulteta

, 8–1,

Beograd, 1964; Papazoglu F., “Les royaumes d’Illyrie et de Dardanie,

Origines et development, structures, hellenisation et romanization”,

Iliri iAlbanci

, Beograd, 1988, p. 174; Jubani B., “Features of Il
lyrian Culture in the Territory of Dardania”,Illyria

, 2, 1985, pp. 211−222; Вулић Н.,
“Дарданци, Илири и Далмати “,
Глас Српске Академије Наука
, CLV,
Београд, 1933. While the Yugoslav historian Novak claimed that the

Dardanians were not of the Illyrian origin his compatriot Budimir claimed

that they were one of Illyrian tribes [Новак Г., “La nazionalità dei

Dardani”,
Архив за арбанашку старину

, IV, Београд, pp. 72–89;
Будимир М., “O etničkom odnosu Dardanaca prema Ilirima”,

Jugoslovenski istorijski časopis
, III, Beograd, 1937, pp. 1–29; Будимир
М.,
Грци и Пеласти
, Београд, 1950

 

[Sile]

of the 4 main "regions" of Albanians, only Kosova seems to be the oldest and founder effect area , the others , Manastir, Shkoder and Janine seem to be very late migrational areas enacted by albanians, most likely when waring the ottomans

 

[Ike]

of the 4 main "regions" of Albanians, only Kosova seems to be the oldest and founder effect area , the others , Manastir, Shkoder and Janine seem to be very late migrational areas enacted by albanians, most likely when waring the ottomans

Oldest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kosovo#1321-1331

 

[Sile]

Oldest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kosovo#1321-1331

oldest of the 4, I mentioned............that's the Albanians split...4 territories

 

[Ike]

oldest of the 4, I mentioned............that's the Albanians split...4 territories

You really think that? Considering Hg deviations, I was to say it was the youngest one? Maybe I've seen a wrong charts.

Anyway, that doesn't have to mean that in centuries and millenniums before Slavic arrival and repopulation of Kosovo there was no E-V13//J2/I/R1b around. We'll have to dig up some bones to find out who was there before Slavs.

 

[Ike]

since albanian ghegs are the most traditional albanians an most likely of balkans it has much to do with it,preserving albanian language is very very major in albanian,,preserving blood is very very major,as i said mixiing with none albanians when you follow the kanuni doesnt go down to well,as i said i know albanian woman falling in love an wanting to be with a serbian,,the father has killed her,because of dirty blood,Sorry if insulted any serbians that is just how albanians do things is customs.

I didn't have a time to answer this when posted, but Albanian-Serbian marriage video states for itself. For impatient, go to 1:15. Yes, there is a hesitation about inter-ethnic or inter-religious marriages, but I wouldn't go so far as Ukaj states. It is in fact nice to see these people getting along in the 21 century, celebrating happy moments together...

 

[ukaj]

lol

I didn't have a time to answer this when posted, but Albanian-Serbian marriage video states for itself. For impatient, go to 1:15. Yes, there is a hesitation about inter-ethnic or inter-religious marriages, but I wouldn't go so far as Ukaj states. It is in fact nice to see these people getting along in the 21 century, celebrating happy moments together...

please ike,I go so far because i know very well what happens if a serb woman falls in love with serbian itstill excists today,,yes maybe this albanian family member was banished from her or his family,so dont put words in my mouth please i know of the laws of kanuni i lek dukagjini it is tattooed on my arm,an my whole family follows it,,