Genome of Iron Age Thracian

[Alan]

But all show an inclination of more west European than east European

like my Dv3 below .................even though I have a west-asian marker I am far more western european than eastern european

Population

West_European

Mediterranean

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]35.48[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]33.62[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]14.07[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]East_European[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.91[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Southwest_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.29[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Northwest_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.43[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Neo_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.09[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Palaeo_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.09[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.03[/TD]

and K7b below

Population

Atlantic_Baltic

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]55.72[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Southern[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]26.21[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.43[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.44[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.2[/TD]

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source)

N_Italian (Dodecad)

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2.49[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]North_Italian (HGDP)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bulgarians (Yunusbayev)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.35[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Romanians (Behar)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.57[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bulgarian (Dodecad)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.2[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]O_Italian (Dodecad)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.87[/TD]

Clearly, the indo-iranic people means indian-iranian ..........and they are west-asian and south-asian haplogroups

I wrote in my post above why this is the case. All Indo_Iranians, Balkanians and even half of the Slavic countries have more of "West European" than "East European". And I explained why

please read here. http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...n-Age-Thracian?p=436452&viewfull=1#post436452

 

[mihaitzateo]

Not really. If we take into account that Caucasus_gedrosia and North European have same origin. And that some of the Caucasus_Gedrosia genes get eaten up by North European and vica versa depending on the K runs is a sign for that there are Genes which are on the edge of these both, or more precise ancestral to both. So genes which end up as Caucasus_Gedrosia in one run and as North European in another must be those genes who are very close to the root.

However this is only the case in P192-1

The other samples do not show "contradicting" results in different K's.

I thought Caucasus is a kind of admixture while Gedrosia is another kind of admixture,found in some people from Pakistan.
And I do not think N European admixture is same with Caucasus,but that North and West Europeans have a significant percentage of Gedrosia admixture and some Caucasus admixture,but few.
I know Eastern Europeans have instead few or none Gedrosia admixture but have a significant percentage of Caucasus admixture.

 

[Alan]

I thought Caucasus is a kind of admixture while Gedrosia is another kind of admixture,found in some people from Pakistan.
And I do not think N European admixture is same with Caucasus,but that North and West Europeans have a significant percentage of Gedrosia admixture and some Caucasus admixture,but few.
I know Eastern Europeans have instead few or none Gedrosia admixture but have a significant percentage of Caucasus admixture.

Than you need first to take some extra time to get more recent informaions about Caucasus_Gedrosia, North European etc.

Those are "admixture" in some way but in reality they are not admixture but genetic drifts from one source known as ANE. They have one common origin.

Gedrosia is not a component from "Pakistan" it is a component which peaks in Balochistan, which is located in West Asia or to some people between West and South Asia.

However the point here is, that the ancient Thracians were more West Asian like than any modern Europeans and this is a bullet proof that Caucasus_Gedrosia genes reached Europe first with Indo_Europeans.

 

[Dalmat]

@ Alan
Thracians had Green eyes, even today original Pomaks and not lowland Pomaks have significant green eyes
Blue eyes were the Persians and later cumans and GekTurks

you do realize green eyes are mix of blue and brown eye genes, you cant have population with green eyes without having blue eyes, infact, highest percentage of getting green eyes is if one parent is blue and other is brown eyed

...well i guess you dont realize

 

[Sile]

you do realize green eyes are mix of blue and brown eye genes, you cant have population with green eyes without having blue eyes, infact, highest percentage of getting green eyes is if one parent is blue and other is brown eyed

...well i guess you dont realize

yes I agree.............my father is green, mother is hazel, i am mid green, sister is brown other brother is very light green.
Gfather army records says celeste eyes ...which means sky blue

so, you are most probably correct

 

[mihaitzateo]

Than you need first to take some extra time to get more recent informaions about Caucasus_Gedrosia, North European etc.

Those are "admixture" in some way but in reality they are not admixture but genetic drifts from one source known as ANE. They have one common origin.

Gedrosia is not a component from "Pakistan" it is a component which peaks in Balochistan, which is located in West Asia or to some people between West and South Asia.

However the point here is, that the ancient Thracians were more West Asian like than any modern Europeans and this is a bullet proof that Caucasus_Gedrosia genes reached Europe first with Indo_Europeans.

I doubt. I think those people from North Europe are rather related to Sami and Baltic people,both Scandinavians and Finns,Estonians,Latvians,Lithuanians,North Russians.

 

[Alan]

I doubt. I think those people from North Europe are rather related to Sami and Baltic people,both Scandinavians and Finns,Estonians,Latvians,Lithuanians,North Russians.

This statement didn't make quite sense to me. Scandos etc are North Europeans. You can doubt if you want but it is a proven fact that those genes in North Europeans shares origin with West Asian.

 

[Yetos]

I thought Caucasus is a kind of admixture while Gedrosia is another kind of admixture,found in some people from Pakistan.
And I do not think N European admixture is same with Caucasus,but that North and West Europeans have a significant percentage of Gedrosia admixture and some Caucasus admixture,but few.
I know Eastern Europeans have instead few or none Gedrosia admixture but have a significant percentage of Caucasus admixture.

gedrosia is found more in R1b people than in R1a people

 

[Yetos]

you do realize green eyes are mix of blue and brown eye genes, you cant have population with green eyes without having blue eyes, infact, highest percentage of getting green eyes is if one parent is blue and other is brown eyed

...well i guess you dont realize

No I know what old people in my village use to tell,
Green eyes Thracian, blond hair/red hair
Blue eyes, Persian, black hair
small blue eyes straight hair no wavy Gekotoyrkos

Besides in my country are almost all black or brown (hair and eyes) so any blue or green was excotic, but not blond hair, cause of very light brown, which is big %
I was born half blond hlaf light brown, but now I am full dark brown, except if I stay 3 days in the sun, my skin turns dark-dark and my hair very light brown

 

[Alan]

No I know what old people in my village use to tell,
Green eyes Thracian, blond hair/red hair
Blue eyes, Persian, black hair
small blue eyes straight hair no wavy Gekotoyrkos

Besides in my country are almost all black or brown (hair and eyes) so any blue or green was excotic, but not blond hair, cause of very light brown, which is big %
I was born half blond hlaf light brown, but now I am full dark brown, except if I stay 3 days in the sun, my skin turns dark-dark and my hair very light brown

So this is how Greeks describe the Persian look?


This look might have been more prevelant/characteristic for the ancient Persians, But I doubt that all looked this way, just like I doubt that all Thracians were blue/green eyed and red haired even though it was probably more prevelant among them.

 

[Yetos]

So this is how Greeks describe the Persian look?
View attachment 6523

This look might have been more prevelant/characteristic for the ancient Persians, But I doubt that all looked this way, just like I doubt that all Thracians were blue/green eyed and red haired even though it was probably more prevelant among them.

or perhaps a characteristic of an uper or rulling class?

 

[Dalmat]

yes I agree.............my father is green, mother is hazel, i am mid green, sister is brown other brother is very light green.
Gfather army records says celeste eyes ...which means sky blue

so, you are most probably correct

genes for blue eyes are recesive, you can have brown eyes and still hold blue eye genes.

Green eyes fall into mixed eyes, with hazel, and yellowish 'beer like', ia all depends on a level of pigmentation represented
Getting green eyes is random chance.

with both parents having blue eyes, child will have blue eyes, both having brown, child will have brown, with already only one parent having mixed eyes, child could have anything

 

[Alan]

or perhaps a characteristic of an uper or rulling class?

Doubt, if anything they came more often into contact with the warrior class. Rulers wouldn't be seen that often by the oponent.

 

[Knovas]

Green eyes fall into mixed eyes, with hazel, and yellowish 'beer like', ia all depends on a level of pigmentation represented
Getting green eyes is random chance.

Not exactly. Real green eyes fall clearly into the light eyes category, sharing the main GG mutations with blue eyes at SNP rs12913832. And then, there are other genes which help on determining if it's green or blue: for instance, GG at SNP rs12896399 implies slightly lower odds of having blue instead of green eyes.

The typical brown-green eyes are out of range to be considered light, and of course most times show in people holding AG mutations at SNP rs12913832. To summarize, there's a difference between brown-green and real green eyes.

 

[Sile]

genes for blue eyes are recesive, you can have brown eyes and still hold blue eye genes.

Green eyes fall into mixed eyes, with hazel, and yellowish 'beer like', ia all depends on a level of pigmentation represented
Getting green eyes is random chance.

with both parents having blue eyes, child will have blue eyes, both having brown, child will have brown, with already only one parent having mixed eyes, child could have anything

My wife is mid blue eyes ............all my children are sky-blue eyes like me Gfather ...................my green eyes missed out

 

[Sile]

Not exactly. Real green eyes fall clearly into the light eyes category, sharing the main GG mutations with blue eyes at SNP rs12913832. And then, there are other genes which help on determining if it's green or blue: for instance, GG at SNP rs12896399 implies slightly lower odds of having blue instead of green eyes.

The typical brown-green eyes are out of range to be considered light, and of course most times show in people holding AG mutations at SNP rs12913832. To summarize, there's a difference between brown-green and real green eyes.

yes............but genes does always give you the correct result...................to this day, 23andme state my genes indicate I have 97% chance of blue eyes...........i sent them a photo with my green eyes and they say its an oddity

 

[Knovas]

The SNP I mentioned for green eyes it's not the only one. You should bear the specific mutations in many others to have green eyes. It was just an example.

You can find discussions in 23andme about this topic.

By the way, it would be interesting to see V2's, V8's and T2G2's pigmentation results. It doesn't suprise me at all to see high West Asian percents considering the place and the period. To me it looks more surprising to still find individuals who are so Basque/Sardinian-like there.

 

[Alan]

The SNP I mentioned for green eyes it's not the only one. You should bear the specific mutations in many others to have green eyes. It was just an example.

You can find discussions in 23andme about this topic.

By the way, it would be interesting to see V2's, V8's and T2G2's pigmentation results. It doesn't suprise me at all to see high West Asian percents considering the place and the period. To me it looks more surprising to still find individuals who are so Basque/Sardinian-like there.

Well actually it is quite "suprising" Thracia comprimises lands of modern Romania, Greece, Bulgaria. All those countries having significant Caucasus_Gedrosia admixture but non of them on the same level as the Thracians. This actually is an indiciation that the Slavic influx into the Balkans did change the the genetic landscape of the region.

But it is not suprising that the first Caucasus_Gedrosia genes in Europe appear among the Indo Europeans.

 

[LeBrok]

But it is not suprising that the first Caucasus_Gedrosia genes in Europe appear among the Indo Europeans.

Especially the ones rich in R1b who came via Anatolia.

 

[joeyc]

genes for blue eyes are recesive, you can have brown eyes and still hold blue eye genes.

Green eyes fall into mixed eyes, with hazel, and yellowish 'beer like', ia all depends on a level of pigmentation represented
Getting green eyes is random chance.

with both parents having blue eyes, child will have blue eyes, both having brown, child will have brown, with already only one parent having mixed eyes, child could have anything

Black eyes are dominant over blue eyes, but the former are almost non existent in Europe. Most Dark eyes in Europe fall in the hazel-light brown category, which already carry the recessive genes for blue eyes.

So 2 Europeans with brown eyes can have a blue eyed child, althougt it's very rare.