Skeleton of Possible Witch Girl Found

[Angela]

An archaeological dig in Albenga in Liguria has unearthed the remains of a 13-year-old-girl buried face-down -- evidence, archaeologists say, that despite her young age, she was rejected by her community and seen as a danger even when dead.

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/skeleton-of-possible-witch-girl-found-141006.htm

It hasn't yet been carbon dated, but they're estimating that the bones date from late Antiquity to the early Medieval Period.

Apparently, this kind of burial is known from all over the world and all time periods, and symbolizes the fact that the person is being ostracized even in death.

It's difficult to know if the reason has anything actually to do with witchcraft, although similarly buried people have often had stones placed in their mouths. Perhaps it had something to do with the unfortunate girl's health issues, which were extensive.

From another article:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/skeleton-medieval-witch-girl-found-buried-face-down-italy-1468784
The skeleton showed signs of porotic hyperostosis on the skull and orbits - which were the result of severe anaemia.
"She could have suffered from an inherited blood disorder such as thalassemia or from hemorrhagic conditions. More simply, it could have been an iron lacking diet," anthropologist Elena Dellù told Discovery News.
According to Caroline Arcini of Sweden's National Heritage Board, convicted witches and rule-breaking nuns were also buried in prone positions.

This is a picture of the skull. Can anyone tell anything from it?
http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1402...wn-possibly-because.jpg?w=720&h=482&l=50&t=40

If I could only win that lotto...I'd pay to have so many old Italian bones dna tested.

 

[Aberdeen]

Fascinating. Too bad we'll never know why the girl was ostracized and feared even in death. But if she suffered severe anemia, perhaps her medical condition gave her a compulsive thirst for blood. Combine that with the kind of moodiness one might find in a teenager with health issues and I could see why people might have thought she was a vampire.

 

[John Doe]

An archaeological dig in Albenga in Liguria has unearthed the remains of a 13-year-old-girl buried face-down -- evidence, archaeologists say, that despite her young age, she was rejected by her community and seen as a danger even when dead.

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/skeleton-of-possible-witch-girl-found-141006.htm

It hasn't yet been carbon dated, but they're estimating that the bones date from late Antiquity to the early Medieval Period.

Apparently, this kind of burial is known from all over the world and all time periods, and symbolizes the fact that the person is being ostracized even in death.

It's difficult to know if the reason has anything actually to do with witchcraft, although similarly buried people have often had stones placed in their mouths. Perhaps it had something to do with the unfortunate girl's health issues, which were extensive.

From another article:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/skeleton-medieval-witch-girl-found-buried-face-down-italy-1468784
The skeleton showed signs of porotic hyperostosis on the skull and orbits - which were the result of severe anaemia.
"She could have suffered from an inherited blood disorder such as thalassemia or from hemorrhagic conditions. More simply, it could have been an iron lacking diet," anthropologist Elena Dellù told Discovery News.
According to Caroline Arcini of Sweden's National Heritage Board, convicted witches and rule-breaking nuns were also buried in prone positions.

This is a picture of the skull. Can anyone tell anything from it?
http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1402...wn-possibly-because.jpg?w=720&h=482&l=50&t=40

If I could only win that lotto...I'd pay to have so many old Italian bones dna tested.

Very interesting. Back in late antiquity to the early medieval period, north Africa was predominantly Christian if I'm not mistaken, under either east Roman or Vandal rule (depends which part of north Africa).

If I'd just win the lotto, I'd pay for the old Ashkenazi bones in the Worms Jewish graveyard to have their DNA tested, or those of pre exile Jews, or both if I'd win enough money. :grin:

 

[John Doe]

Fascinating. Too bad we'll never know why the girl was ostracized and feared even in death. But if she suffered severe anemia, perhaps her medical condition gave her a compulsive thirst for blood. Combine that with the kind of moodiness one might find in a teenager with health issues and I could see why people might have thought she was a vampire.

Anemia can cause a thirst for blood? That's news to me. If that's the case, then yeah, they might have mistaken her for a 'child of the night' so to speak, considering the fact that they knew a lot less than what modern humans know.

 

[Aberdeen]

Very interesting. Back in late antiquity to the early medieval period, north Africa was predominantly Christian if I'm not mistaken, under either east Roman or Vandal rule (depends which part of north Africa).

If I'd just win the lotto, I'd pay for the old Ashkenazi bones in the Worms Jewish graveyard to have their DNA tested, or those of pre exile Jews, or both if I'd win enough money. :grin:

I'm pretty sure Liguria is a coastal region in northwestern Italy. And the first massive wave of moslem conquest swept over North Africa, which is how they got to Spain - straight across the strait of Gibralter. And the locals in North Africa (except for Egypt) were mostly Pagan before that.

 

[Aberdeen]

Anemia can cause a thirst for blood? That's news to me. If that's the case, then yeah, they might have mistaken her for a 'child of the night' so to speak, considering the fact that they knew a lot less than what modern humans know.

Anemia doesn't cause a thirst for blood itself, but can sometimes be one of the symptoms of porphyrias, which is known as the vampire disease and which can cause a host of bizarre symptoms.

 

[hope]

Good read Angela, thanks. As you say the prone burial is known to have occurred in lots of places across the world and usually because the deceased was seen as some sort of deviant. The piece mentions the skull showed signs of porotic hyperostosis. Someone suffering from extreme anaemia will very likely have, as Aberdeen stated, outward signs of the condition. This as we know can cover, pale or yellowish skin, fainting, weakness, difficulty breathing, hair loss and mood swings. To add to that there is a condition known as Pica, which can occur in severe cases of iron deficiency, and it has the patient eating non food items such as chalk, clay or soil.
I suppose if a young girl in the village [ in those times] starts showing these symptoms, whilst perhaps also eating dirt, she might be thought of as "odd". Poor girl, however. It was all too easy to be considered a witch back in the younger days, and even more if land or money was involved...

For any-one interested in such, here is a link that covers a great many of those charged with witchcraft and devil consorting, from England, Channel Islands, Scotland and Ireland...[pleased to say our list is short..]

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/witchtrial/eis.html

 

[John Doe]

I'm pretty sure Liguria is a coastal region in northwestern Italy. And the first massive wave of moslem conquest swept over North Africa, which is how they got to Spain - straight across the strait of Gibralter. And the locals in North Africa (except for Egypt) were mostly Pagan before that.

Oh, I suppose cities like Carthage and Hippo were Christian enclaves in a predominantly Pagan area.

 

[John Doe]

Anemia doesn't cause a thirst for blood itself, but can sometimes be one of the symptoms of porphyrias, which is known as the vampire disease and which can cause a host of bizarre symptoms.

And one of those symptoms is a thirst for blood?

 

[Angela]

Thanks, Hope.

We have a history of witchcraft in Italy as well.

One particular form is rather unique, and I'm not sure how it fits into witchcraft per se, as there is nothing in it to do with Satan, or perversion of the sacraments. They were called the Benandanti, and claimed to be attempting to combat evil sorcery. It seems more like a fertility cult than anything else.

This is a famous book about the Benandante:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Battles
He drew parallels with practices from the Alps and the Baltic.

This is another one of his famous books:
Ecstasies: Deciphering the Witches' Sabbath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasies_(Ginzburg_book)

I personally think a lot of this, that not based on the exhibition of actual physical or psychiatric ailments, stems from remnants of old, often woman centered fertility rites and goddess worship, and male fear of female sexuality.

The other type which was common in Italy had to do with "love potions".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_in_Italy

I think I've mentioned before that some very ancient people still practice some benign forms of "magic" in my area. This is an Italian article on the matter:
http://www.lunigiana.net/magia/magia1.htm

It often involves dropping some olive oil into water to "read" whether the person has been "tainted" by the "evil eye". It's a matter of derision nowadays, at least among us. It is much more prevalent in the south as it is far more rural and traditional.

(Funny story: When I married, my new grandmother in law, from a rural area in Campania, who adored me for obvious reasons:grin:, asked to meet with me privately on Christmas Eve, when she proceeded to instruct me in this and various other arcane practices. These were mysteries meant to be passed down from mother to daughter, but she didn't impart them to her own female descendents as she didn't feel they were either "Italian" enough, or "spiritual" enough. I never had the heart to tell them, or to tell her that I never used them. It's a good example of how long these traditions can last, and how secret the transmission of these practices had to be because of the danger involved. I hasten to add that it was all "white" magic.)

 

[bicicleur 2]

Oh, I suppose cities like Carthage and Hippo were Christian enclaves in a predominantly Pagan area.

what does Hippo stand for?
and which Carthage? Carthage of the Carthaginians was destroyed before Christianity

 

[John Doe]

what does Hippo stand for?
and which Carthage? Carthage of the Carthaginians was destroyed before Christianity

Hippo Augustine died in and Cathage the Vandals conquered.

 

[Aberdeen]

Oh, I suppose cities like Carthage and Hippo were Christian enclaves in a predominantly Pagan area.

Pretty much, but it's off topic.

 

[Angela]

Augustine of Hippo (/ɔːˈɡʌstɨn/^[1][2] or /ˈɔːɡəstɪn/;^[2] Latin: Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis;^[3] 13 November 354 – 28 August 430), also known as Saint Augustine or Saint Austin,^[4] was an early Christian theologian and philosopher^[5] whose writings were very influential in the development of Western Christianity and Western philosophy. He was bishop of Hippo Regius (present-day Annaba, Algeria) located in the Roman province of Africa.

He lay dying, or so legend has it, as the Barbarians were storming the gates.

His masterwork: The City of God, which contrasts with the ephemeral City of Man

 

[John Doe]

Pretty much, but it's off topic.

It might be partially off topic, but this confirmation made me realise that while Egypt was the only predominantely Christian province in northern Africa but there were still Christian enclaves in northwest Africa

 

[John Doe]

Augustine of Hippo (/ɔːˈɡʌstɨn/^[1][2] or /ˈɔːɡəstɪn/;^[2] Latin: Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis;^[3] 13 November 354 – 28 August 430), also known as Saint Augustine or Saint Austin,^[4] was an early Christian theologian and philosopher^[5] whose writings were very influential in the development of Western Christianity and Western philosophy. He was bishop of Hippo Regius (present-day Annaba, Algeria) located in the Roman province of Africa.

He lay dying, or so legend has it, as the Barbarians were storming the gates.

His masterwork: The City of God, which contrasts with the ephemeral City of Man

Interesting

 

[Angela]

This is how the skeleton looked when found...poor thing.
http://www.sott.net/image/s10/209824/large/prone_burial_141006.jpg

Such indignity even in death.

 

[Yetos]

I can not express it in English,

except anaimia, the thirst for blood is also in ρευματοπαθεια, revmatics or something that, colagene anomalies, Lycos, asto test etc,

ok found it, rheumatology, but can not remember which one,

by what I know some rheumatic disease symptoms can calm by drinking few drops of blood, but can not remember which one, damn

 

[John Doe]

I can not express it in English,

except anaimia, the thirst for blood is also in ρευματοπαθεια, revmatics or something that, colagene anomalies, Lycos, asto test etc,

ok found it, rheumatology, but can not remember which one,

by what I know some rheumatic disease symptoms can calm by drinking few drops of blood, but can not remember which one, damn

O.O

That's news to me, I heard of such a thing but wasn't entirely sure of its existence.

 

[Yetos]

(Funny story: When I married, my new grandmother in law, from a rural area in Campania, who adored me for obvious reasons:grin:, asked to meet with me privately on Christmas Eve, when she proceeded to instruct me in this and various other arcane practices. These were mysteries meant to be passed down from mother to daughter, but she didn't impart them to her own female descendents as she didn't feel they were either "Italian" enough, or "spiritual" enough. I never had the heart to tell them, or to tell her that I never used them. It's a good example of how long these traditions can last, and how secret the transmission of these practices had to be because of the danger involved. I hasten to add that it was all "white" magic.)

christmas eve or 23 december?