Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

[LeBrok]

I read that too and it appears to be not correct. They want to reach 100 000 in total, not in addition. So the new recruits would be in fact much fewer.

This is how many troops Putin has promised to send.

 

[mihaitzateo]

I think West Ukrainians are racists and they have a precise agenda,how to "clean" their nation of Russians and Tatars.
I highly doubt that the elections in Crimeea were forged,people there feared that racists Ukrainians will start to discriminate against them.
I have heared that Russians who are going to Western Ukraine are not having their kids received in schools and so on.
And I think US Congress do not know what is really happening in Ukraine,they are victims of some Ukrainians and Poles propaganda.
There was even on Guardian a movie about how Ukrainian army is shelling civilians in the areas they are not controlling .
Guardian is a newspaper from Manchester so it has nothing to do with Putin,now another guy published an article on Guardian telling that Ukraine should receive weapons.

So is clear they are not pro-Putin.
Ukrainians are discriminating against Romanians,they are not permitting Romanians to speak their native language.
And they are forcing Romanians to go to war in East Ukraine,the Romanian ethnics from Ukraine.
What Russia and Ukraine did considering the lands that were stolen from Romania,by Molotov Ribentrop pact?
Well Russia let Bessarabia to go independent.
While Ukraine refuses to give Romania Northern Bukovine,which still has over 85% Romanian population.
And they also have another part of Bukovine,where they denationalized very bad Romanians.
Look on this map,to see how ethnic groups were in that part ,around 1900:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernivtsi#mediaviewer/File:Greater_austria_ethnic.svg
So Chernivtsi had 26.8% Jews and 23.2% Romanians,in 1930.
What happened to all Romanians there?


West Ukrainians army is a gathering of cowards,who can only kill civilians,but can not defeat some hundreds of mercenaries that Putin sent and locals that were trained.
LeBrok,if you delete again my post I will write an email to Maciamo .
You are abusing your powers and try to impose your views to others using in a wrong way your admin powers.
They are cowards,because they are shelling civilians in Eastern Ukraine and because having one of the largest military forces in Europe (they have over 4000 tanks) do not have courage to fight in straigt,fair fight with those from Eastern Ukraine,but kill the civilian population there,to force those Eastern rebels to give up.
This is called cowardice.
I am not speaking Russian/Ukrainian and I do not know Cyrilic and I could see what is happening there so is quite clear most West Ukrainians are knowing very well what happens there.
And they agree with it.

 

[ElHorsto]

You don't believe that russian troops are in Ukraine and Russia supplies tanks and other weapons? Together with surface to air missile which was used to shot down Malesian plane.

Russia supports the rebels, but not with troops. You have been subject to disinformation, unless you show these troops. Maybe Russia invented some sort of super camouflage which I don't know?
Whether Russia provides lethal weapons I don't know.
Note that Yanukovich ordered the army to move all weaponry to eastern Ukraine about at the same time when he escaped. These were mostly huge columns of tanks. I admit that it is possible that he did this on Moscows recommendation, but it was property of Ukrainian army shifted by the yet Ukrainian government.

Since you mention the malaysian plane: Why is Kiev still hiding the tower recordings? Where is the black box gone? I'm asking because these are the two prime evidence carriers in every plane accident, and it was Kiev who first blamed the rebels few hours after the crash.

How can East be cleansed if rebels live there and Ukrainian troops can't get to these areas?

If they defeat the rebels they can get to these areas of course. Kiev is not only fighting civilians afterall (I hope).
But civilians already now flee en masse. More than one million have fled according to newest UN numbers, and vast majority go to "evil" Russia.

Don't confuse sporadic murders by some psychopathic fascists as ethnic cleansing. Such things are common on both sides, but are not considered an official position of a government or rebels.

It is deliberate by the government, see the footage with Poroshenko's speech.

Here is more evidence from a General:

"I want to offer the Ukrainian artillerists medals, to those who
shell the city [Donetsk], the houses and the civilian population
...
The shelling there is done as intimidation, … not just object
destruction, but intimidation. The civilian population is intimidated by a chaotic
bombardment of different objects. There are many shells that plug
directly into the streets or vegetable gardens."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l17KfjtaqpA

(english subs)

If this is no evidence, it is at least enough to start an investigation in Den Haag tribunal.
But the silence of Human Rights organisations and the "civilized world" is ear deafning and telling. Even worse, we send billions.

This is not even the only evidence.

If you really want to know what cleansing mean, go back to russian Tzars official ethnic politics and Soviet Union resettling of Tatars and Ukrainian starvation, 5 million dead as punishment for being anti revolutionary. All done by a state with official program of extermination and resettling. Now, this is what ethnic cleansing means.

Why? During Yugoslavian war, ethnic cleansing was defined to be much less than what you describe, and about the same like what is happening in Ukraine now.

Many bad things happened in soviet times for sure, but not only there. And yes, it was multiple times larger than what is happening now.

Ethnic cleansing literally means to get rid of an ethnicity in a certain area.

Putin's army is already there.

Poroshenko would be glad to know where it is. Please tell him, because US intelligence seems to hide this information.

I'm surprised you so believe in words of ex KGB guy. They are known to tell the "truth", lol. You should read more "Pravda" newspaper too.

Putin is not my source of information.

Last 25 years of being Russias lapdog didn't work for them at all. Their economy didn't even move since Soviet times. Are you blaming them that finally they want to try something else? To be, what you call, a Nato bulldog for a change. At least they are finally trying something different.

Where did I blame them for trying something else?
If you mean NATO, it is a military thing. I'm not aware of any polls or elections about NATO membership. Many countries do excellently without NATO (Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria). Russia is too big to be not concerned about Nato. Every sane country in the same situation would act like this, or even more aggressively.

EDIT: Henry Kissinger was another top US elite person who criticised the current policy and recommended Finland as a model for Ukraine. Now that's what I call reason!

The goal is to subjugate Russia, and Ukraine is the useful idiot, but this is just my conspiracy theory. You can ignore it.

Nato was invited by Ukraine, a sovereign country, Nato is not entering Russia. What problem you see with this?
By your standards Russia has a right to terrorise Estonia and Latvia, because they are in Nato and they are bordering with Russia?

When and how was NATO invited by Ukraine? Please explain. Poroshenko does not count since he was already installed by the same NATO. His election was a farce since people in the east couldn't vote.

I've already expressed my opinion that Ukraine should let the rebel territory go to Russia. Having a bit smaller but more united population is much better.

Nice, this means that you acknowledge that I'm right. Do you also notice that this is merely what the rebels want, and that neither Kiev nor NATO wants this?

Actually, foremost they want secession, because Russia can not efford to annex east Ukraine. That's one of the reasons why Putin refused to acknowledge the improvised referendum there. But ok, we almost agree.

 

[Ike]

Nato was invited by Ukraine, a sovereign country, Nato is not entering Russia. What problem you see with this?

There is a big problem, because, when a US girl wants to go to help ISIS she gets arrested even before entering an airplane, but when Munayev gathers his terrorist in Denmark to go to fight in Ukraine, then it's OK. As long as one dies fighting Russians, all's quiet on the western front.

 

[mihaitzateo]

There is a big problem, because, when a US girl wants to go to help ISIS she gets arrested even before entering an airplane, but when Munayev gathers his terrorist in Denmark to go to fight in Ukraine, then it's OK. As long as one dies fighting Russians, all's quiet on the western front.

I do not agree with Putin sending mercenaries and supporting a rebellion in Eastern Ukraine,but that would not have had chances to succeed if actual Ukrainian government would not have started to discriminate against Russian speakers .
The people from so called "orange revolution" did not made such things,as mr Yanukovici government did.
This is why no revolution or separatist movement started,when the "orange" government won the elections.
How current government of Ukraine got into power,by democratic means,or by being supported with AK-47?
I can not call voting while being threatened with weapons "democratic" and this is what happened in Ukraine.
These people who took now the lead in Ukraine are ultra-nationalist racist Ukrainians and they despise Russians for being mixed with Fino-Ugrian and even more,for being mixed with East Asian and Siberian people.
Remember what mr Yanukovici said,that the ground will burn under the feet of separatists.
Since you are comparing with US,well you know in US was a movement to declare California independent,no one got threatened for that,in Great Britain was even a vote for Scotland to become independent,no one got threatened,no one got beaten for being pro-independence of Scotland.

 

[Ike]

@mihaitzateo

I'm not talking about that, you missed the point. I'm asserting that NATO countries have nothing against mercenaries that would go into Ukraine, as long as they are fighting against Russians. US arrests their citizens just for stating they want to join ISIS, but Denmark lets their citizens organize a military units and deploy into Ukraine with no objection. I guess sovereign Ukraine government also called Dutch citizens to help.

 

[mihaitzateo]

@mihaitzateo

I'm not talking about that, you missed the point. I'm asserting that NATO countries have nothing against mercenaries that would go into Ukraine, as long as they are fighting against Russians. US arrests their citizens just for stating they want to join ISIS, but Denmark lets their citizens organize a military units and deploy into Ukraine with no objection. I guess sovereign Ukraine government also called Dutch citizens to help.

I was talking to you,since I do not see where is the crime of the people who are going to fight as volunteers in the army of Ukraine.
I am not supporting Putin mercenaries,neither I support the inhuman acts made by Ukraine army against civilians.
I am not missing any point,Putin mercenaries should leave Ukraine,there were even Afghans fighting for separatists.

 

[mihaitzateo]

Isa Munayev is not a terrorist,he is a courageous male who fought for the independence of his country.
And you can not compare Ukraine army to ISIS,is true they are shelling building were are civilians,but pro-Russian separatists do not care too much about civilians either.
Anyway,neither will take a gun to shoot a civilian on purpose,I am upset cause both do not care too much about civiliians and civilians from where Ukraine army and Pro-Russian separatists are fighting have a lot to suffer.
How you think that Cechens fighting on the side of pro-Russian separatists have more right to do that,while those Chechens fighting for Ukraine army are terrorists?
EDIT:
Even CNN published an article on this matter,showing that civilians are suffering most from this fight between Pro-Russian separatists and Ukraine army:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/03/world/ukraine-fighting/index.html
I think US should push at United Nations that peace keeping troops should be sent in the area,under UN mandate.
US should not participate at this troops with soldiers.Should be international mandate,China can send troops.India,Brasil,Germany,France,Great Britain etc.
Not Russia,neither US,they should not participate with troops at this action.
Because too many civilians are getting hurt.
I think a solution like Kosovo is best to be adopted,the region there to be autonomous .
The region do not join Russia,they do not join NATO and everybody should be happy with this.

 

[LeBrok]

Russia supports the rebels, but not with troops. You have been subject to disinformation, unless you show these troops. Maybe Russia invented some sort of super camouflage which I don't know?
Whether Russia provides lethal weapons I don't know.
Note that Yanukovich ordered the army to move all weaponry to eastern Ukraine about at the same time when he escaped. These were mostly huge columns of tanks. I admit that it is possible that he did this on Moscows recommendation, but it was property of Ukrainian army shifted by the yet Ukrainian government.

Personally I don't have a proof, neither we have an official acknowledgment from Putin. Otherwise we can rely on circumstential evidance:
- There has been reports from independent organizations about Russian equipment crossing the border.
- Ukrainian Government claims capturing Russian soldiers.
- Satellite images show 100,000 Russian troops massed at the border, though there is no indication of Ukraine planning to attack Russia. Everybody knows it would be a suicidal mission.
- US/Nato satellite photos showing Russian troops crossing border.
- Putin supports uprising, and if it collapses it would spoil his position. He has troops at the border to make sure it doesn't happen. Who is going to stop him?

Since you mention the malaysian plane: Why is Kiev still hiding the tower recordings? Where is the black box gone?

Ask Russian rebels, it landed in their area, and they were first there to "inspect" it.

If they defeat the rebels they can get to these areas of course. Kiev is not only fighting civilians afterall (I hope).
But civilians already now flee en masse. More than one million have fled according to newest UN numbers, and vast majority go to "evil" Russia.

They think of themselves as Russians first, so why not wait this mess over in Russia.

Why? During Yugoslavian war, ethnic cleansing was defined to be much less than what you describe, and about the same like what is happening in Ukraine now.

Many bad things happened in soviet times for sure, but not only there. And yes, it was multiple times larger than what is happening now.

Ethnic cleansing literally means to get rid of an ethnicity in a certain area.

Once we start uncovering mass-ethnic graves I admit it was ethnic cleansing. Let's not exaggerate to prove one's point.

There did I blame them for trying something else?

As long as Russia is OK with it?

Every sane country in the same situation would act like this, or even more aggressively.

It doesn't make it right. Are you trying to excuse Russia?

EDIT: Henry Kissinger was another top US elite person who criticised the current policy and recommended Finland as a model for Ukraine. Now that's what I call reason!

I don't have a problem with it, as long as Ukrainians elect this choice themselves.

The goal is to subjugate Russia, and Ukraine is the useful idiot, but this is just my conspiracy theory. You can ignore it.

Russia became fairly insignificant, so nobody really cared what is going on there, till Russia started bullying all its neighbors around.

Nice, this means that you acknowledge that I'm right. Do you also notice that this is merely what the rebels want, and that neither Kiev nor NATO wants this?

Actually, foremost they want secession, because Russia can not efford to annex east Ukraine. That's one of the reasons why Putin refused to acknowledge the improvised referendum there. But ok, we almost agree.

Nope, it is reversed. If they join Russia, Putin will have not much use for them. As long as they stay in Ukraine, Putin will have "A Say" in Ukrainian politics, and perhaps influence in Nato and EU in the future, if Ukraine joins them. Other words, strategically, Donetsk is more important for Putin if it stays in Ukraine. Otherwise it would be acquired quickly by Putin like Crimea. From Putins perspective Crimean needed to belong to Russia because of strategic military installation in the center of Black Sea. If Crimean stayed in Ukraine and Ukraine joined Nato, all these installations would be in Nato hands and potentially could be used against Russia!

 

[ElHorsto]

Personally I don't have a proof, neither we have an official acknowledgment from Putin. Otherwise we can rely on circumstential evidance:
- There has been reports from independent organizations about Russian equipment crossing the border.
- Ukrainian Government claims capturing Russian soldiers.

So did Russia invade Ukraine, yes or no?

- Satellite images show 100,000 Russian troops massed at the border, though there is no indication of Ukraine planning to attack Russia. Everybody knows it would be a suicidal mission.

This is not relevant since every country has the right to move it's troops wherever it wants within it's own territory. Especially if a huge neighbour country experiences a coup by hostile russophobes who start attacking their russiphile population, backed by a military organization which keeps breaking promises for 20 years.
Switzerland recently prepared it's army for a french attack, can you imagine.
So did these 100000 Russian troops invade Ukraine?

- US/Nato satellite photos showing Russian troops crossing border.

Actually no, they don't.

- Putin supports uprising, and if it collapses it would spoil his position. He has troops at the border to make sure it doesn't happen. Who is going to stop him?

I agree. How do we stop him? For the start, negotiating with the Rebels about federalization. Coincidentally it would be also the best solution for the whole people. West Ukrainians already start to ask questions why their sons have to go to war.

I know these pictures, this one in particular.
These pictures don't answer the most important question: whom these columns belong, the Ukrainian army, the Rebels or the Russian army. Some are moving west and some east.

Ask Russian rebels, it landed in their area, and they were first there to "inspect" it.

Don't need to ask the rebels, they handed it over already to Farnborough, England. The receivers confirmed that the box was intact and sealed. The recent dutch report did not mention in the slightest who shot. But the "community" knew already immediately after it happened that Russia has to be sanctioned. This is irresponsible. The media created pressure upon EU politicians to harm both, EU and Russia.

They think of themselves as Russians first, so why not wait this mess over in Russia.

Certainly, as usual during ethnic cleansing.

Once we start uncovering mass-ethnic graves I admit it was ethnic cleansing. Let's not exaggerate to prove one's point.

It's absolutely no exaggeration. Official estimated numbers of victims in Kosovo ranged between 3000 and 10000, and how many of them were Serbs is not known. Many were combattants.
Ukraine figures are 5100, but the report also says that the number is likely "much higher". The civilians are mostly Donbass-people, because that's where the fighting happens.
Whether there are mass graves or not is not relevant if the bodies lie around the streets and fields.
The number of one million refugees is much higher than any refugee number from Kosovo and Croatia (I don't have the numbers from Bosnia at hand).
Phosphoric bombs and ballistic missiles were used by Kiev against Donbass, but never during Yugoslavia wars, and I think ballistic missiles have never ever been used in such a way elsewhere.

As long as Russia is OK with it?

That's what was promised by Genscher 1990 in Germany. It was also common sense that there is no need of NATO expansion because the Soviet threat is gone. Read the article from foreign affairs which I posted. So why did NATO change it's mind? Expansionist ambitions perhaps?

It doesn't make it right. Are you trying to excuse Russia?

NATO approached Russia for 20 years and finally reached it's borders by creating a hostile russophobe coup.
You seriously expect Russia to stay calm? If yes, we can stop discussing.
Every move by Putin was entirely defensive.
Even Obama admitted in the CNN interview last Sunday that Putin had no ambitions about Crimea because he was totally surprised by the regime change which "we" (Obama) did, lol.
Now compare that to the narrative in western mainstream media. We have been fooled all the time, and I told you so.

I don't have a problem with it, as long as Ukrainians elect this choice themselves.

Again, where is the result of this choice? Me thinks at least east Ukrainians beg to differ. Yet NATO is meddling there, toppling a democratically elected government. Now who has expansionist ambitions?

Russia became fairly insignificant, so nobody really cared what is going on there,

You can't be serious. Biggest land mass with just 200000 inhabitants and a little bit oil, gas, uranium, palladium, gold.
Wages have increased ten-fold since Putin is in power, debt has decreased to 12% to GDB (compare that to western debt levels), foreign cash savings suffice to pay the debt multiple times, and finally in addition yet the resource wealth.
Russia has still many problems for sure, but claiming that it is less than a glittering jack pot is ridiculous.

Madeleine Albright: "It is unjust that Russia possesses all this oil and gas." Actually I agree with her, life is unjust. We can not make everyone equal, we are no communists.

till Russia started bullying all its neighbors around.

Now please explain which countries Russia bullied. Georgia attacked Russian troops in Abkhasia because Saakashvili thought NATO would help him. Chechnya war was bad, but it is inside Russia and was started by Yelsin.

Nope, it is reversed. If they join Russia, Putin will have not much use for them. As long as they stay in Ukraine, Putin will have "A Say" in Ukrainian politics, and perhaps influence in Nato and EU in the future, if Ukraine joins them. Other words, strategically, Donetsk is more important for Putin if it stays in Ukraine. Otherwise it would be acquired quickly by Putin like Crimea. From Putins perspective Crimean needed to belong to Russia because of strategic military installation in the center of Black Sea. If Crimean stayed in Ukraine and Ukraine joined Nato, all these installations would be in Nato hands and potentially could be used against Russia!

This is not reversed to what I said, it is supportive. As I said, Russia has no incentive to annex or even conquer east Ukraine, and you provide an additional argument. Russia needs this buffer to protect it's border. That's what Putin tried to express: he could take Kiev in two weeks, but he doesn't.

Having said that, Putin will have eventually to take stronger measures if the west provides lethal weapons to Kiev or more. Then I expect Russia to invade finally for self-defense, then he will be the "new Hitler" and NATO doesn't need to seek excuses for any actions anymore. Then Moldavia-Transnistria is next, or Baltic states with their Russian minorities, or Belarus. It is terrifying.
This is the path to WW3 because Russia has no room where to step back without losing and eventually breaking-up into small pieces, because it can not defend all it's borders anymore (see plan of Brzerzinki "Global Balkans", he is Obama's advisor). The ultimate defense are nukes, that's exactly purpose of having nukes (remember Cuba crisis). In Washington there are forces who willingly take this risk, hoping for a regime change in Russia. But this is too risky since Putin is too popular and Russians don't want a Shirinovski or a new Yeltsin, for good reasons.
I'm not supporting imperialism, also not the russian one. But Russia's actions are all defensive, even if the means are sometimes questionable.

 

[Yetos]

All powers always support solutions and solutions fit to them, to be needed,

example
Palestine Iesrael
India Pakistan
Kossovo (Albanian/Serb)
Cyprus
etc etc,
since no clear referendums done and no realistic dimplomatic solution found,
it is obvious,
STATES ARE NOT BORDERS,
STATES ARE PEOPLE.
and if >50% West wants EU and >50% East wants Russia, then it is obvious,
LAND CAN BE EARNED BY BLOOD AND WAR,
BUT STATES ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN FOLLOW THEIR ROAD,
UKRAINE TODAY IS 2 STATES,
Because no clear referendum, neither realistic diplomacy happened there,
maybe I am stuck in an Outopia of politics, but Scottish referendum gave clear solution, why not in Ukraine?

Except if we want another Kossovo in Europe,
with UN soldiers and division lines (border, but no boder!!!),

STATES ARE NOT COLOURED SPOTED MARKS ON MAPS.


Korea is one country, but 2 states, cause people and powers decided to.
Vietnam was one country, dived to 2 states, but reunite to one cause people wanted to,
Deutschland was 2 states, but unite to 1 cause people wanted to,
CzechoSlovakia was 1 country but divided to 2 cause people wanted to.

 

[mihaitzateo]

All powers always support solutions and solutions fit to them, to be needed,

example
Palestine Iesrael
India Pakistan
Kossovo (Albanian/Serb)
Cyprus
etc etc,
since no clear referendums done and no realistic dimplomatic solution found,
it is obvious,
STATES ARE NOT BORDERS,
STATES ARE PEOPLE.
and if >50% West wants EU and >50% East wants Russia, then it is obvious,
LAND CAN BE EARNED BY BLOOD AND WAR,
BUT STATES ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN FOLLOW THEIR ROAD,
UKRAINE TODAY IS 2 STATES,
Because no clear referendum, neither realistic diplomacy happened there,
maybe I am stuck in an Outopia of politics, but Scottish referendum gave clear solution, why not in Ukraine?

Except if we want another Kossovo in Europe,
with UN soldiers and division lines (border, but no boder!!!),

STATES ARE NOT COLOURED SPOTED MARKS ON MAPS.


Korea is one country, but 2 states, cause people and powers decided to.
Vietnam was one country, dived to 2 states, but reunite to one cause people wanted to,
Deutschland was 2 states, but unite to 1 cause people wanted to,
CzechoSlovakia was 1 country but divided to 2 cause people wanted to.

Yetos,I think you are not saying what is exactly the situation in Balkans:
Serbia,Croatia,Bosnia,Montenegro,same people,Serbo-croatians,same language,Serbo-croatian,but 4 states.
Greece,North Cyprus,rest of Cyprus - same people,same language (except for the lots of Turkic speaker settlers),Greeks,but 3 states.
I doubt that native people from Cyprus,speaking Turkic are Turks,I would like to see some genetic testing of them,it can be seen on maternal and paternal lines if they got any Turkic influence.

 

[Yetos]

@ mihaitzateo

I agree that Serbs Bosnians Croats Montenegrins and part of Skopje are same people,
but they divided their territories,
Free will of people,
once were united, once divided, its their choice,


something that Ukrainians, did not had the choice, or had under 'peculiar' elections

 

[mihaitzateo]

@ mihaitzateo

I agree that Serbs Bosnians Croats Montenegrins and part of Skopje are same people,
but they divided their territories,
Free will of people,
once were united, once divided, its their choice,


something that Ukrainians, did not had the choice, or had under 'peculiar' elections

Well since you are a Greek,I do not understand why the Greek part of Cyprus is not uniting with Greece?
I have looked on genetic testing,maybe Greeks from continent are a little different compared to Greeks from Cyprus,but they are same people.
If a referendum will be held in Greece and Cyprus about these countries will get united,what will be the result?
As for splitting of ex-Yugoslavia people can be influenced to take decisions by propaganda and so on.
You know what I think?
That Cyprus have a key position so no idea if international powers would agree that Cyprus will get united to Greece,even if most of the people from these two lands would want this.

 

[Yetos]

Well since you are a Greek,I do not understand why the Greek part of Cyprus is not uniting with Greece?
I have looked on genetic testing,maybe Greeks from continent are a little different compared to Greeks from Cyprus,but they are same people.
If a referendum will be held in Greece and Cyprus about these countries will get united,what will be the result?
As for splitting of ex-Yugoslavia people can be influenced to take decisions by propaganda and so on.
You know what I think?
That Cyprus have a key position so no idea if international powers would agree that Cyprus will get united to Greece,even if most of the people from these two lands would want this.

cause from liberation of Cyprus (50's) the deal with British empire, (Cyprus was British colony) was a country with no army, under protection of UK Greece and Turkey,
a referendum done in 60's, Cypriots decide to make a state of their own,
later the Junda in Greece, which was supported by CIA, made an effort to catch Cyprus president, and make a new referendum (70's), which failed,
that was the reason the Turks made Attila plan, and island broke to 2 states,


PS
if you know politicks, then you know, about H Kissinger's plan's,
HK dreamed and planed also the division of ex-Yugoslavia,

 

[Ike]

I was talking to you,since I do not see where is the crime of the people who are going to fight as volunteers in the army of Ukraine.
I am not supporting Putin mercenaries,neither I support the inhuman acts made by Ukraine army against civilians.
I am not missing any point,Putin mercenaries should leave Ukraine,there were even Afghans fighting for separatists.

Well if you don't see a problem with the Chechen who is living in Denmark going into Ukraine to fight Russians, then I can't help you with that.

Isa Munayev is not a terrorist,he is a courageous male who fought for the independence of his country.

Maybe he was that on the beginning of his carrier, but he's become a full blown terrorist in the meantime. This is his shortened bio. And even the commenters below appropriately describe his role in Ukrainian war.

And you can not compare Ukraine army to ISIS,is true they are shelling building were are civilians,but pro-Russian separatists do not care too much about civilians either.

So, according to you, about one million USA soldiers could take off their star-spangled banner from their uniforms and vehicles, and go to Ukraine to fight as volunteers?

 

[mihaitzateo]

It was not about CIA agents here,but about a Chechen who went to fight for Ukraine army.
There are also Chechens fighting for separatists.
And I do not see where is the problem that a Chechen living in Denmark went to fight for Ukraine army,in Ukraine,because he did not went to attack Russia.
If another Chechen living in Denmark will want to go fighting for pro-Russian separatists,no one would stop him either.
Ukraine did not even wanted to join NATO ,why mercenaries went to fight for pro-Russian separatists?

 

[Ike]

Ukraine did not even wanted to join NATO

That was the story for the whole eastern block 25 years ago, and now most of them ARE in NATO. I don't buy that.

 

[LeBrok]

I heard today that Georgia wants in again. I mean to join Nato. If Russia keeps bullying and alienating her neighbours, pretty soon will be surrounded completely by Nato countries, except China and maybe Belarus.
Way to go Putin!

 

[Ike]

I heard today that Georgia wants in again. I mean to join Nato. If Russia keeps bullying and alienating her neighbours, pretty soon will be surrounded completely by Nato countries, except China and maybe Belarus.
Way to go Putin!

Yeah right, like NATO is getting closer to Russia because it is bullying Georgia and other small countries. If you were not informed that was NATO's milestone from day one.

Your story sound just like an ex convict husband with a restraining order, lurking around his wife's house with an excuse that she is bullying her neighbours