Is Turkey a Western country ?

[Piro Ilir]

If you find a post offensive or braking Eupedia rules please report this post to moderators by pressing exclamation button at bottom left corner of the post.

Thank you sir. If I may ask something else? I was trying to respond in a post to Yetos, but it was impossible. Do you know why was impossible? I don't understand much about those forums stuff. Thanks

 

[Yetos]

I didn't accuse here anyone for Islamic phobia. The only one accusing here about different things is you

yes you did.

 

[Yetos]

Albanians trying to have Greek documents simply because they need to go to Germany or Italy to work, not because Greece is a democratic state. Better making sandwiches for the Americans, than to make sandwiches for the Greeks [emoji6].

as I said, you never worked FOR USA ambassadors or embassy,

your responce prove it,

 

[Yetos]

The only one saying bad things for others religion are you. In my opinion Greece is a theocratic country. Personally I don't have any problem with the orthodox Christian religion. It is a beautiful and respectful religion. A large part of the Albanians are Christian orthodox. The only thing what I'm trying to say is that Greece is not a democratic country.
I never been in Greece, so don't tell me to go back in Albania. I better be dead than to change my name into some Greek name there in Greece. Calm down yetos, the time of Greek supremacy is over, so try to discuss as a civilized man. Enough with insults and personal attacks.

don't come to Greece if you do not like it,

NOBODY ask you to come,

as for our democracy,

WE PAY OUR DEMOCRACY WITH BLOOD AGAINST OTTOMANS, ALBANIANS, NAZIs, COMMUNISTS AND STALIN, USA and Kissinger
as for your democracy, you were always licking OTTOMANS, ITALIANS, NAZIs, RUSSIAN AND COMMUNISTS, AND NOW USA,

now you can go sleep, and dream the Federo-Albania, something that will never happened,

anyway I ask moderators to remove this trash, cause only trash it is

 

[Yetos]

During the last football match between the Greece and Albania, in Greece got killed one Albanian football fan by some Greek fascists nationalists . So enough with your propaganda. Anyone is free to check in internet or anywhere he wants, about this brutal assassination. That poor young man had been massacred by those Greeks.

Aren't you ashamed,

is there any dignity in you?
you are speaking with an Makedonian and you tell crup and bullshit

who murdered Aristotelis Goumas?

just because he spoke Greek in Albania?

now back to propaganda office, to find more lies to spread,


you accuse Greece for theocracy and racism,
while in country ALBANIA racists shoot and kill parliament members and walk free,



PS you ask for it,
now taste your poison

 

[DuPidh]

If you find a post offensive or braking Eupedia rules please report this post to moderators by pressing exclamation button at bottom left corner of the post.

The moderators should keep the forum civilized and within the topic. Clearly that forum-er Yetos has hijacked the topic and crossed the borders of civility many times and moderators do not do anything. The topic is if Turkey is a western country?
Its of course clear that Turkey is everything but Western. Geographically Turkey is not west and also culturally. Even the Turks that have lived their lives in the west have way to go to westernize.
But being not a western country does not mean that Turkey has not modernized. They have modernized in their own way. Statistics show that Turkey is a country with admirable schooling system. About 20000 Turks do their masters and phd in USA alone every year. They have industrialized immensely and are stretching their reach in many parts of the globe.
The importance of Turkey is vital for Europe and Turks should one day be part of the Eu. Being in the EU does not necessary mean the country is western. Romania is in EU and look what their thieves are doing in Europe. Greece is in the EU be they admire Putin and Russia.

 

[LeBrok]

The moderators should keep the forum civilized and within the topic. Clearly that forum-er Yetos has hijacked the topic and crossed the borders of civility many times and moderators do not do anything. The topic is if Turkey is a western country?
Its of course clear that Turkey is everything but Western. Geographically Turkey is not west and also culturally. Even the Turks that have lived their lives in the west have way to go to westernize.
But being not a western country does not mean that Turkey has not modernized. They have modernized in their own way. Statistics show that Turkey is a country with admirable schooling system. About 20000 Turks do their masters and phd in USA alone every year. They have industrialized immensely and are stretching their reach in many parts of the globe.
The importance of Turkey is vital for Europe and Turks should one day be part of the Eu. Being in the EU does not necessary mean the country is western. Romania is in EU and look what their thieves are doing in Europe. Greece is in the EU be they admire Putin and Russia.

Are you going to report a post or describe your political views?

 

[Sile]

Yes, mostly agreed. Anyone might pray to God where ever he feels . ISIS is about politics than is about religion.

The stupidity of all religions is that they fail to realise that there is only one God, the same God that stone age man prayed too and currently what people pray too today.

These "religious gangs" still have not learnt anything, and will never learn anything because they use religion as a power game, stripping people of money and their minds.

 

[Garrick]

ISIS is about politics than is about religion.

And you know well that politics and religion are often interwoven and difficult to unravel.

Conceding Islam, Albanians totally became allies of the Turks against Balkan peoples who remained Christians.

...
But today we can see Albanians try to get Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian passports and citizenship, not vice versa.

Democracy in Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia can not be compared with Albania.

Even census in Albania until yesterday was not possible for minorities, and even today not for all.

For example :
According to the 1928 population census, there were ca. 65,000 Serbs in Albania, forming around 8% of Albania's total population and the largest of its minorities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serb_minority_in_Albania

But today Serbs cannot be listed as Serbs in Albania. They cannot learn Serbian language, and they must have Albanian names. They have to have two names, one in the family, other public.

Allowed minorities since 2011 are: Greeks, Macedonians, and Montenegrins.

But Armanji (Aromanians) are only cultural minority!? Once Armanji was numerous in many areas in present day Albania.

What is interesting in Albanian census, Albanians are 82.58%, but it is not known a lot of non Albanians (more than 15%)?

Not only Serbs and Armanji, where are Roma, Bulgarians, Epirotes etc. Decades of regimes of Zogu and Hoxha are last, democracy will inevitably rise, or maybe no?
...

And again for your post. Paris Le Monde gave table about recruits who fill ISIS, it is high number of people of your ethnicity per capita, do you want to see Le Monde table?

And topic is about Turkey, very interesting and important thread, it would be good focus in thread and important links.

 

[Piro Ilir]

don't come to Greece if you do not like it,

NOBODY ask you to come,

as for our democracy,

WE PAY OUR DEMOCRACY WITH BLOOD AGAINST OTTOMANS, ALBANIANS, NAZIs, COMMUNISTS AND STALIN, USA and Kissinger
as for your democracy, you were always licking OTTOMANS, ITALIANS, NAZIs, RUSSIAN AND COMMUNISTS, AND NOW USA,

now you can go sleep, and dream the Federo-Albania, something that will never happened,

anyway I ask moderators to remove this trash, cause only trash it is

I am not here representing the Albanians or the Albanian state. I'm here just representing only myself. So stop saying all the time "you" . Albania never was a Nazis nor a fascist country. It was occupied during the WWII by the Germany and Italy, like the rest of the Europe, include Greece.
Stop accusing in personal here in this forum, this thread and this forum is not about me and you, but is about other issues. You are embarrassing all the Greeks with your personal aggressive behaviour against me. As for USA, not only me but most of my close family people worked for them years ago. This is not important for the thread. And stop asking moderators to do things against me with such arrogance. This is not your private area


[emoji629]

 

[Piro Ilir]

Aren't you ashamed,

is there any dignity in you?
you are speaking with an Makedonian and you tell crup and bullshit

who murdered Aristotelis Goumas?

just because he spoke Greek in Albania?

now back to propaganda office, to find more lies to spread,


you accuse Greece for theocracy and racism,
while in country ALBANIA racists shoot and kill parliament members and walk free,



PS you ask for it,
now taste your poison

My dignity is not your issue and your problem. Try to look on your own dignity. I hope not all the Greeks are such uneducated as you are. Aristotle gumas, was not killed, but he died in a road accident. This event was propagated by the Greek nationalist as a assassinate. It was not. The leader of the Albanian orthodox religion in Albania is a ethnic Greek from the Greece, which indicates that Albanians are not extremist racists as are trying to show us here. This priest preaching in Greek language throughout the Albanian churches, although the people on the church do not understand the Greek language.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Aren't you ashamed,

is there any dignity in you?
you are speaking with an Makedonian and you tell crup and bullshit

who murdered Aristotelis Goumas?

just because he spoke Greek in Albania?

now back to propaganda office, to find more lies to spread,


you accuse Greece for theocracy and racism,
while in country ALBANIA racists shoot and kill parliament members and walk free,



PS you ask for it,
now taste your poison

Who are those parliament members killed by the Albanian racists? Can you tell me any name?

 

[Piro Ilir]

The moderators should keep the forum civilized and within the topic. Clearly that forum-er Yetos has hijacked the topic and crossed the borders of civility many times and moderators do not do anything. The topic is if Turkey is a western country?
Its of course clear that Turkey is everything but Western. Geographically Turkey is not west and also culturally. Even the Turks that have lived their lives in the west have way to go to westernize.
But being not a western country does not mean that Turkey has not modernized. They have modernized in their own way. Statistics show that Turkey is a country with admirable schooling system. About 20000 Turks do their masters and phd in USA alone every year. They have industrialized immensely and are stretching their reach in many parts of the globe.
The importance of Turkey is vital for Europe and Turks should one day be part of the Eu. Being in the EU does not necessary mean the country is western. Romania is in EU and look what their thieves are doing in Europe. Greece is in the EU be they admire Putin and Russia.

Being a Western country, doesn't mean necessarily being geographically in the west. It is more about democratic values. Generally the Balkan is not yet a western region. Include Greece, Turkey and Albania.

 

[Piro Ilir]

The stupidity of all religions is that they fail to realise that there is only one God, the same God that stone age man prayed too and currently what people pray too today.

These "religious gangs" still have not learnt anything, and will never learn anything because they use religion as a power game, stripping people of money and their minds.

Yes, you are right. But always during the history religion was used for personal benefits. There are still some real and honest priests and imams, not all are using the religion in a wrong and evil manner. But generally agree, most of them are using the religion for their own benefits.

 

[RobertColumbia]

Yes, you are right. But always during the history religion was used for personal benefits. There are still some real and honest priests and imams, not all are using the religion in a wrong and evil manner. But generally agree, most of them are using the religion for their own benefits.

This idea has been around for a long time. See Chaucer (14th century)'s depiction of the Parson (http://pages.towson.edu/duncan/chaucer/duallang5.htm#parson), who he describes as someone who actually means what he preaches.

 

[Piro Ilir]

And you know well that politics and religion are often interwoven and difficult to unravel.

Conceding Islam, Albanians totally became allies of the Turks against Balkan peoples who remained Christians.

...
But today we can see Albanians try to get Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian passports and citizenship, not vice versa.

Democracy in Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia can not be compared with Albania.

Even census in Albania until yesterday was not possible for minorities, and even today not for all.

For example :
According to the 1928 population census, there were ca. 65,000 Serbs in Albania, forming around 8% of Albania's total population and the largest of its minorities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serb_minority_in_Albania

But today Serbs cannot be listed as Serbs in Albania. They cannot learn Serbian language, and they must have Albanian names. They have to have two names, one in the family, other public.

Allowed minorities since 2011 are: Greeks, Macedonians, and Montenegrins.

But Armanji (Aromanians) are only cultural minority!? Once Armanji was numerous in many areas in present day Albania.

What is interesting in Albanian census, Albanians are 82.58%, but it is not known a lot of non Albanians (more than 15%)?

Not only Serbs and Armanji, where are Roma, Bulgarians, Epirotes etc. Decades of regimes of Zogu and Hoxha are last, democracy will inevitably rise, or maybe no?
...

And again for your post. Paris Le Monde gave table about recruits who fill ISIS, it is high number of people of your ethnicity per capita, do you want to see Le Monde table?

And topic is about Turkey, very interesting and important thread, it would be good focus in thread and important links.

Albanians are trying to get Greek passports because they need to work in EU. Albanians are not trying to have Serbian passports ,simply because they don't need those documents.
We are talking about the modern times here, not about the history. Don't derail the conversation. Serbia, is not yet a democratic country, include Albania either. During the last football match between Serbia and Albania the whole Belgrade was blinded by policeman with machine guns to protect the Albanian football players. Did it look like a democratic place? But I agree , the Albanians and Albanian minority in south Serbia now are more much more free to have their human rights, than are in Greece. Vucic is doing a good job about the democratic values. He is trying to put Serbia on the right direction. Serbs and Albanians are trying to open a new era between them. This is a good thing for the democracy

 

[Garrick]

Albanians are trying to get Greek passports because they need to work in EU. Albanians are not trying to have Serbian passports ,simply because they don't need those documents.
We are talking about the modern times here, not about the history. Don't derail the conversation. Serbia, is not yet a democratic country, include Albania either. During the last football match between Serbia and Albania the whole Belgrade was blinded by policeman with machine guns to protect the Albanian football players. Did it look like a democratic place? But I agree , the Albanians and Albanian minority in south Serbia now are more much more free to have their human rights, than are in Greece. Vucic is doing a good job about the democratic values. He is trying to put Serbia on the right direction. Serbs and Albanians are trying to open a new era between them. This is a good thing for the democracy

I'm giving accurate information:

60,000 Albanians apply for Serbian passports

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2015&mm=02&dd=06&nav_id=93111

You should not mention the match, it is shame for Albanians who set the drone in the match in Serbia in Belgrade with the boundaries of caricature of "Greater Albania" (with territories of 4 countries, ex Yu Macedonia, Greece, Serbia and Montenegro). This creature has provoke a reaction. It is same if in Kiev in the match Ukraine-Russia Russians would set the drone with the boundaries of "Greater Russia" or "New Russia" or in Spain in the match Spain-Morocco, Moroccans would set the drone with the boundaries of "Greater Morocco with Spain territories".

But part of public have got it wrong. They are only supposed to laugh at this creature and not enter the court. The entry of spectators into the playing court is not allowed.

 

[Yetos]

Albanians are trying to get Greek passports because they need to work in EU. Albanians are not trying to have Serbian passports ,simply because they don't need those documents.
We are talking about the modern times here, not about the history. Don't derail the conversation. Serbia, is not yet a democratic country, include Albania either. During the last football match between Serbia and Albania the whole Belgrade was blinded by policeman with machine guns to protect the Albanian football players. Did it look like a democratic place? But I agree , the Albanians and Albanian minority in south Serbia now are more much more free to have their human rights, than are in Greece. Vucic is doing a good job about the democratic values. He is trying to put Serbia on the right direction. Serbs and Albanians are trying to open a new era between them. This is a good thing for the democracy

oh really?

and who is bombing the right road?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC0gd4r6QQQ&spfreload=10

 

[DuPidh]

Are you going to report a post or describe your political views?

If you moderate this forum at least keep it within the topic. The political views do not matter. If we did not have differences in our views would be no need for a forum.
But its annoying and not serious to see that the topic is about Turkey and discussions are about Albania.
I don't know if this sounds normal to you?
If Albania has to be discussed let then be another forum about Albania where the participants can vent their frustrations.

 

[Garrick]

If you moderate this forum at least keep it within the topic. The political views do not matter. If we did not have differences in our views would be no need for a forum.
But its annoying and not serious to see that the topic is about Turkey and discussions are about Albania.
I don't know if this sounds normal to you?
If Albania has to be discussed let then be another forum about Albania where the participants can vent their frustrations.

It is understood that as ethnic Albanian defend your nation but for this objection you're only partially right. Because the Turks during the Ottoman rule made a mess in the Balkans. And still a countries that had been under Ottoman boots cannot recover. Albanians were main Turkish allies, but Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians and Armanji suffered most depredations of the Turks and their Balkan Muslim allies.

In the eyes of many Balkan peoples Turks are perceived as occupiers, but in the eyes of many Albanians Turks are perceived as heroes. Someone can says it is history, but unfortunately it is questionable if he or she is right. Yes, some Turkish governments in the past attempted to build relatively good relations with former colonies, and it was good. But since the rise of Islamists in Turkey, things are starting to change. Islamists have indicated that their policy is neo-Ottomanism.

One of many articles in last several years:

Rise of the neo-Ottomans

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/clifford-d-may-rise-of-the-neo-ottomans

"A century later, the world looks rather different. There are good reasons to believe Europe is in decline and America in retreat (these are disparate phenomena). While it may be delusional to believe that Columbus encountered Muslims in the Caribbean, it is not crazy to believe that, over the decades ahead, fierce Muslim warriors will profoundly alter the world order once more.

Viewed in this light, Mr. Erdoğan looks like a neo-Ottoman, one who dreams of commanding Muslims — and those who have submitted to them — in many lands. If that’s accurate, the rift between Turkey and the West can only widen."
...

We will see how the situation will develop further. Balkan nations that have suffered of the Ottoman empire have reasons to worry, although there are those in the Balkans who are happy if neo-Ottomanism grows stronger.