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Immigration sexual harassments by immigrants

I think Alan has about covered it. If these are immigrants, send them back. If they have legal status but commission of a crime results in a revocation of that status, revoke it and send them back. Otherwise put them in prison for the maximum penalty permissible under the law, which unfortunately in Germany may not be very long, but if the laws are too lenient that's the fault of the legislators in Germany.

No. Alan is doing damage control. We imported, or failed to keep abay, a horde of middle-eastern men who are turning our squares into their squares.

Furthermore: Read this Politico article:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/europe-refugees-migrant-crisis-men-213500

One of their numbers on Sweden:

The resulting ratio is astonishing: These calculations suggest that as of the end of 2015, there were 123 16- and 17-year-old boys in Sweden for every 100 girls of that age.

Just read that. There is no way this will end nicely.

Zero tolerance is the only way to go in cases like this, and that means aggressive enforcement of the law as it applies to everyone.

That said, the comments of the Mayor of Cologne that women should try to travel in groups and not be provocative is abhorrent. Now, she may be an earnest and well-meaning person, but that is absolutely the wrong message.

If men of whatever nationality, race, religion, whatever the hell, can't control themselves around women they should be locked up. It is not the fault of the victim if she gets sexually harassed or raped, and I don't care if she's walking down the street in a bikini.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/06/europe/germany-cologne-assaults-arms-length/

I particularly hope that she did not mean that Europe should change its values to accommodate recent immigrants from other cultures. This is extremely important. Immigration under certain conditions agreed upon by a country and its people is all well and good, but immigrants have to adapt to the culture of the host country, not the other way around.

They won't. Europe has seen middle eastern immigration for decades now. They didn't and they won't. A total stop on intake of refugees needs to be considered.

Public officials and law enforcement need to show some backbone and make that crystal clear.

The public officials and law enforcement kept the information that these were mostly asylum seekers out of the news for days. For fear of right wing backlash. Just ponder that. We Europeans are betrayed.

EDIT: That Die Welt article I linked a few reactions back states that it was already known at January 1st by the police that most perpetrators were recent asylum seekers.
 
We have similar reports on Zürich and Frankfurt.

And more..

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/w...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Reports of sexual assaults, including the case of a woman who narrowly escaped an attack on a Paris-area train by three Afghan refugees, were now proliferating in Germany and other European countries, though it was not clear whether that was because of an increase in attacks or the surge of attention being given to the events in Cologne.

Enough is enough. They need to go.
 
I think Alan has about covered it. If these are immigrants, send them back. If they have legal status but commission of a crime results in a revocation of that status, revoke it and send them back. Otherwise put them in prison for the maximum penalty permissible under the law, which unfortunately in Germany may not be very long, but if the laws are too lenient that's the fault of the legislators in Germany.

Zero tolerance is the only way to go in cases like this, and that means aggressive enforcement of the law as it applies to everyone.

That said, the comments of the Mayor of Cologne that women should try to travel in groups and not be provocative is abhorrent. Now, she may be an earnest and well-meaning person, but that is absolutely the wrong message.

If men of whatever nationality, race, religion, whatever the hell, can't control themselves around women they should be locked up. It is not the fault of the victim if she gets sexually harassed or raped, and I don't care if she's walking down the street in a bikini.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/06/europe/germany-cologne-assaults-arms-length/

I particularly hope that she did not mean that Europe should change its values to accommodate recent immigrants from other cultures. This is extremely important. Immigration under certain conditions agreed upon by a country and its people is all well and good, but immigrants have to adapt to the culture of the host country, not the other way around.

Public officials and law enforcement need to show some backbone and make that crystal clear.

this is very simplistic
if they are 1000 on a square it is impossible to identify and prosecute them all
if it is 1 person in a dark alley what are the chances they will find him

the fact is, these people come from another culture that does not belong in Europe
they don't have any respect for European values
Europe should remain Europe and it should not be changed by an uncontrollable flood of these people

you yourself have plead to allow only Christian or non-Muslim refugees from Syria into the US
 
I don't believe in uncontrolled immigration anywhere, whether it's Mexicans in the U.S. or Syrians, North Africans and Afghans in Europe.

Countries have a right to control their borders. They also have a right to decide how to screen potential immigrants. Religion should, in my opinion, be a part of the screening process, and not only because of the different customs practiced by one set of religious groups versus another, or the fact that you're obviously not going to get ISIS members who are Greek rite Christians or Maronite Christians, for example.

It's also a question of how easily the backgrounds of certain migrants can be checked. We have quite a bit of experience in the U.S. (and also in Canada) with taking in Christian refugees through the various church groups, including Catholic Charities here in the U.S. Usually the churches here work with the priests in the Middle East.

As to your statements regarding the law enforcement aspect, I'm afraid you don't understand how this is supposed to work, although perhaps it's natural with people who have no experience in the field. These outbreaks should be treated in the same way that a well run police department would treat any other riot. There should be plans in place for the rapid deployment of numerous specifically trained squads as soon as calls come in. The "rioters" or "thieves" or men assaulting women should all be rounded up. From my experience, CCTV cameras are ubiquitous and should prove helpful. People in the area should be filming the events with their phones. All of this should aid in the identification of the perpetrators. Are you going to get all of them? No, you're not, but normal police techniques in terms of interrogation should lead to the names of others who escaped. More importantly, a few such instances should send the proper message.

Of course, this all presupposes that there is the political will to do this. In the U.S. the mayor and district attorney in Baltimore ordered the police to stand by and not interfere when a riot broke out and as a result a good part of the city burned to the ground. It was insanity of the first order. That would never have happened in Rudy Giuliani's New York.

Speaking of him, as his methods in New York showed, increased police presence on the streets, criminalizing and prosecuting even the more minor offenses (the "broken window approach"), and more aggressive policing leading to increased arrest percentages drives all crime rates down. It works.
See:
http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

"The police measure that most consistently reduces crime is the arrest rate of those involved in crime, the study finds. Felony arrest rates (except for motor vehicle thefts) rose 50 to 70 percent in the 1990s. When arrests of burglars increased 10 percent, the number of burglaries fell 2.7 to 3.2 percent. When the arrest rate of robbers rose 10 percent, the number of robberies fell 5.7 to 5.9 percent. In the case of murder, the decline was 3.9 to 4 percent; in the case of assault, 2 to 2.4 percent; and for motor vehicle theft, 5 to 5.1 percent.

The contribution of such deterrence measures (the "stick") offers more explanation for the decline in New York City crime than the improvement in the economy, the authors conclude. Between 1990 and 1999, homicide dropped 73 percent, burglary 66 percent, assault 40 percent, robbery 67 percent, and vehicle hoists 73 percent. The authors' model manages to explain between 33 and 86 percent of those declines."


As to the "broken window approach":
"In this view, small disorders lead to larger ones and perhaps even to crime. As Mr. Guiliani told the press in 1998, "Obviously murder and graffiti are two vastly different crimes. But they are part of the same continuum, and a climate that tolerates one is more likely to tolerate the other."

None of this means that I support what has happened in Europe in terms of this unregulated flood of refugees. It shouldn't have been permitted, as I indicated above. The European community allowed this to happen. You tell me, is there the political will to expel all the recent immigrants, much less those who have lived there for years, or perhaps were even born there?

Complaining is all very well, but unless these things actually happen, or even until they actually happen, the measures I've described had better be put into place. People have a right to walk the streets of their cities unharmed.
 
None of this means that I support what has happened in Europe in terms of this unregulated flood of refugees. It shouldn't have been permitted, as I indicated above. The European community allowed this to happen. You tell me, is there the political will to expel all the recent immigrants, much less those who have lived there for years, or perhaps were even born there?

They are completely cowed. Anything which may be explained as directed against minorities is considered a step back to the "dark history", meaning the holocaust.

Example: When a Salafist immigrant attacked a Jewish museum in Brussels the dutch foreign policy minister Frans Timmermans stated it reminded him of Europe's dark past. Completely ignoring that the West-Europeans did not commit these attacks.

Complaining is all very well, but unless these things actually happen, or even until they actually happen, the measures I've described had better be put into place. People have a right to walk the streets of their cities unharmed.

Yes. We all agree. But you underestimate the fecklessness of Europe's governmental institutions at this point in time. For instance, Germany may "expel" foreigner that commit crimes. But the European High Court of Human Rights [1] forbids expulsion to countries which may persecute someone. So the Germans courts "expel" someone and nothing can be done.

[1] I found out that more pompous the name, the more pompous the rulings of certain courts. Canada appears to have a "Human Rights Court" with some activist jurors that made some very stupid rulings. It is my believe those pompous names serve as virtual invisibility cloaks. Since nobody wants to be against human rights, nobody questions them, and thus they exempt from scrutiny.
 
You are wrong here and the reason for that is probably because you did not actually bother to read properly or inform. The police says these groups remind them of a criminal North African pickpocket organisation which appeared 3 years ago. Their way to do it is to harrase people they consider weak (touching etc) to steal their money.

No, Alan. I understand your worry, as Kurd in Germany. But these attacks were by illegals and recent asylum seekers. They also were in Sweden and Finland. By asylum seekers. More lies will only deteriorate the situation more.

The core of the refugees (from Syria and Iraq) are quite educated people from my own observation.

Alan. That is simply not true. The first report is that at least one but according to some reports almost two third of them barely are able to be compared with primary school and can hardly read. The myth that most Syrian refugees are well educated was indeed spread by the respected newspapers. But this only goes to show how deep the lying goes.

The lying Lügenpresse (Notice this is an UN poll?):

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...echtlinge-ueberdurchschnittlich-gebildet.html


The hard reality:

http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Aigner-Viele-Migranten-schlecht-gebildet-article15960361.html
http://www.zeit.de/2015/47/integration-fluechtlinge-schule-bildung-herausforderung
 
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As to your statements regarding the law enforcement aspect, I'm afraid you don't understand how this is supposed to work, although perhaps it's natural with people who have no experience in the field. These outbreaks should be treated in the same way that a well run police department would treat any other riot. There should be plans in place for the rapid deployment of numerous specifically trained squads as soon as calls come in. The "rioters" or "thieves" or men assaulting women should all be rounded up. From my experience, CCTV cameras are ubiquitous and should prove helpful. People in the area should be filming the events with their phones. All of this should aid in the identification of the perpetrators. Are you going to get all of them? No, you're not, but normal police techniques in terms of interrogation should lead to the names of others who escaped. More importantly, a few such instances should send the proper message.

I'm afraid you don't understand. There are plenty of images of the purportraters but very few that allow positive identification.
And it was new years eve. There were supposed to be festivities and celebrations in every town and every square.
Are we to be prepared for riots in every square of every town?
Does Europe have to be turned into a riot or war zone because of these imbecils?
Welcome to Eurabia. Wir schaffen es.
 
Complaining is all very well, but unless these things actually happen, or even until they actually happen, the measures I've described had better be put into place. People have a right to walk the streets of their cities unharmed.

the worst part of all is that the official instances have frist tried to ignore what happened and then tried to bend the truth
the truth is very inconvenient for Frau Merkel (chosen as personality of the year 2015)
many Europeans don't trust their own government any more
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayaItdH5huc

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban warned EU leaders about the precedents it is setting in addressing the refugee crisis as he spoke to the second Plenary Session of the XXIII Congress of the European People's Party (EPP) in Madrid, Thursday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrbbyewI9VA

This is a cut version of Viktor Orbán's nearly 60-minute long speech at the Fidesz Congressus in mid-December, 2015.
He discusses Hungarian issues, plans for the future, and speaks at length about the fate of Europe and the European Union.

He talks about the EU starting from 12:24 (We will protect Hungarians from criminals, terrorists, and illegal immigrants.)
 
This is getting worse and worse. Apparently, the German police executives have given the order to NEVER bring to press crimes related to foreigners. This in order to not feed sentiments against the refugees.

http://www.bild.de/news/inland/sex-...oten-die-wahrheit-zu-sagen-44077302.bild.html

There is one thing the Germans hate: That is when their countries institutions can't be trusted.

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ausweisung-103.html

"Die Stimmung an der Basis ist unterirdisch", sagte demnach der Chef des Unions-Mittelstands, Carsten Linnemann. Wenn der Zustrom an Flüchtlingen so bleibe wie bisher, werde Integration in Deutschland nicht gelingen. In der CDU gibt es die Sorge, dass viele Bürger das Vertrauen in den Rechtsstaat verlieren - und das ist für die Partei ein besonderes Problem, da für sie die innere Sicherheit seit jeher Markenkern ist.
 
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Zero tolerance is the only way to go in cases like this, and that means aggressive enforcement of the law as it applies to everyone.

That said, the comments of the Mayor of Cologne that women should try to travel in groups and not be provocative is abhorrent. Now, she may be an earnest and well-meaning person, but that is absolutely the wrong message.

If men of whatever nationality, race, religion, whatever the hell, can't control themselves around women they should be locked up. It is not the fault of the victim if she gets sexually harassed or raped, and I don't care if she's walking down the street in a bikini.
I absolutely agree with this.
 
It is not the fault of the victim if she gets sexually harassed or raped, and I don't care if she's walking down the street in a bikini.
Response.
I absolutely agree with this.

I agree that's usually the case, but not always. If lets say a woman is in a bar and looking for man and just attention/flirtation in general. So, she wears what you could care proactive clothing, has several drinks, and decides to flirt with guys who could just tell by looking at them aren't good characters. If she gets rape, you have admit she made bad judgement.

The "woman can't be wrong" idea is flawed. It ignores the important fact women enjoy/seek the attention of men, and therefore can make bad decisions about the men they seek attention from. But in this case in Germany, the women did not make bad judgement at all.
 
Response.


I agree that's usually the case, but not always. If lets say a woman is in a bar and looking for man and just attention/flirtation in general. So, she wears what you could care proactive clothing, has several drinks, and decides to flirt with guys who could just tell by looking at them aren't good characters. If she gets rape, you have admit she made bad judgement.

The "woman can't be wrong" idea is flawed. It ignores the important fact women enjoy/seek the attention of men, and therefore can make bad decisions about the men they seek attention from. But in this case in Germany, the women did not make bad judgement at all.

I understand what you mean and I agree.
 
No one deserves to get raped. Whether a woman in certain situations exercises bad judgment is an entirely different matter, morally, rationally and legally, which I would expect anyone who has a rational mind and isn't a sociopath to understand.

Should any man be so stupid as to offer this as mitigation in a court of law anywhere in the civilized western world, not only would it have no value, but it would undoubtedly result in the imposition of the absolute maximum penalty, which is fine, actually, because I tend to always favor them anyway for crimes of this nature.

Ed. I don't want to be understood to mean that every accusation of rape should be accepted, as Hillary Clinton has recently, and stupidly, claimed. (As a lawyer her comment is even more inexplicable; she knows better.)

These cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute when the alleged rape took place in a consensual social setting, there were no witnesses, and there is no indication of violence. In those situations, it comes down to the credibility of the witnesses, which is always a subjective matter. In my personal opinion, the finders of fact should be extraordinarily careful in coming to a decision based solely on credibility when the outcome could ruin a man's life.

The atmosphere on college campuses today and the disciplinary action that is being taken based solely on the preponderance of the evidence is both wrong and dangerous. What are these young men to do, get the woman to sign a consent form? This is becoming ridiculous.
 
No one deserves to get raped. Whether a woman in certain situations exercises bad judgment is an entirely different matter, morally, rationally and legally, which I would expect anyone who has a rational mind and isn't a sociopath to understand.

Should any man be so stupid as to offer this as mitigation in a court of law anywhere in the civilized western world, not only would it have no value, but it would undoubtedly result in the imposition of the absolute maximum penalty, which is fine, actually, because I tend to always favor them anyway for crimes of this nature.

Ed. I don't want to be understood to mean that every accusation of rape should be accepted, as Hillary Clinton has recently, and stupidly, claimed. (As a lawyer her comment is even more inexplicable; she knows better.)

These cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute when the alleged rape took place in a consensual social setting, there were no witnesses, and there is no indication of violence. In those situations, it comes down to the credibility of the witnesses, which is always a subjective matter. In my personal opinion, the finders of fact should be extraordinarily careful in coming to a decision based solely on credibility when the outcome could ruin a man's life.

The atmosphere on college campuses today and the disciplinary action that is being taken based solely on the preponderance of the evidence is both wrong and dangerous. What are these young men to do, get the woman to sign a consent form? This is becoming ridiculous.

no one deserves to get raped

but what e.g. if both are drunk or drugged and there is consent, but the woman regrets it afterward ?
that wouldn't be the first time to happen
IMO that isn't rape
but she can always claim there was no consent

The "woman can't be wrong" idea is flawed.
 
Response.


I agree that's usually the case, but not always. If lets say a woman is in a bar and looking for man and just attention/flirtation in general. So, she wears what you could care proactive clothing, has several drinks, and decides to flirt with guys who could just tell by looking at them aren't good characters. If she gets rape, you have admit she made bad judgement.
Whatever, the person who makes a decision to rape is always at fault?

The "woman can't be wrong" idea is flawed.
You mean wrong accusation, wrong memory recall, wrong judgment, wrong person?
 
in the scenario of news years eve, the fault is 100% is with the arab men . There is no if or but scenario.

As if a woman would agree to sex in the middle of hundreds of men in a city square .....................what are you people even thinking , what are you snorting!?


BTW, there are nearly 600 complaints of which 45% is sexual complaints
 
no one deserves to get raped

but what e.g. if both are drunk or drugged and there is consent, but the woman regrets it afterward ?
that wouldn't be the first time to happen
IMO that isn't rape
but she can always claim there was no consent

The "woman can't be wrong" idea is flawed.
I'm glad you came clean, because FH14 suggests otherwise. If women flirts with a wrong guy she is partially to blame for raping.
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 Response.


I agree that's usually the case, but not always. If lets say a woman is in a bar and looking for man and just attention/flirtation in general. So, she wears what you could care proactive clothing, has several drinks, and decides to flirt with guys who could just tell by looking at them aren't good characters. If she gets rape, you have admit she made bad judgement.
 
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